Chime In: Kerma Springs? Bilstein TC struts? OE? Advice needed for grandpa driver

[MrFahrenheit99]

Hi Fam,

My Golf is in need of a suspension refresh and I'm researching options. It seems I've narrowed down my options to OE equivalent springs and struts, Kerma springs with either OE or Bilstein TC struts, or possibly H&R Sport springs. I'm also open to combinations of any of the aforementioned.

My understanding is that Bilstein TC struts are roughly 10-15% stiffer, Kerma springs are ~20% Stiffer, and H&R Sport springs are...?

I am also replacing my control arms with the Audi TT style bushings which I understand are a little stiffer than stock

If you're running any combination of the above I'd love to hear your feedback and recommendations. As far as my driving style goes, I live in Los Angeles and drive to work all over the place and drive like a grandpa. I also do a lot of very long road trips. I'm not concerned about "performance" but would appreciate a quieter/more comfy ride. Thanks in advance!

 

[oilhammer]

Just go with the OE type Sachs struts/shocks (your car may have had Monroe rear shocks from the factory) if you want to maintain the stock ride. If your car has not been subjected to any road salt, you could probably reuse your existing springs if you want, but I would get new upper strut mounts and bearings (again, Sachs/Boge is the OEM for that stuff).

Must of my dubs have Billy suspension, but they are a bit stiffer. The TCs are the softest and are still stiffer than stock, the HDs are stiffer yet. I also have a recently purchased Golf that has the Monroes (the blue ones, which I think are the higher level ones?) on it already, and they are so far acceptable. I also just got a Jetta that has those horrid assemblies on them (these ones are the 'McPhereson' brand) and are OK but I don't expect them to hold up for all that long and would certainly never ever recommend them.

 

[Zak99b5]

H&R sport springs sound like a bad choice for you. Their OE Sport springs reduce ride-height a good bit less, preserving the suspension geometry, handling, and ground clearance while giving you a higher spring rate. Same with Nuespeed SofSport springs, which I believe keep you even closer to stock ride height.

I personally would steer clear of the TCs. The yellow Billy dampers are good stuff, but don’t provide a cushy ride. Sachs/Boge, as OH mentioned, are good for a daily driver. Koni Yellows set on full soft would be a good choice. I’ve heard good things about other Koni dampers (such as the reds, NLA I think) and whatever replaced the FSDs. The Koni Orange STR.Ts went on my son's MkIV and they seemed fine, but he wound up blowing in the diff and selling it not long after, so no long-term experience with them.

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

H&R sport springs sound like a bad choice for you. Their OE Sport springs reduce ride-height a good bit less, preserving the suspension geometry, handling, and ground clearance while giving you a higher spring rate. Same with Nuespeed SofSport springs, which I believe keep you even closer to stock ride height.

Good to know! I don't want the car any lower as my front air dam/lip already scrapes on even a very mild driveway. I did notice the Kerma springs raise the ride height, which I wouldn't be opposed to! Do you think those springs would be too stiff for daily driving use?

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

Just go with the OE type Sachs struts/shocks (your car may have had Monroe rear shocks from the factory) if you want to maintain the stock ride. If your car has not been subjected to any road salt, you could probably reuse your existing springs if you want, but I would get new upper strut mounts and bearings (again, Sachs/Boge is the OEM for that stuff).

Must of my dubs have Billy suspension, but they are a bit stiffer. The TCs are the softest and are still stiffer than stock, the HDs are stiffer yet. I also have a recently purchased Golf that has the Monroes (the blue ones, which I think are the higher level ones?) on it already, and they are so far acceptable. I also just got a Jetta that has those horrid assemblies on them (these ones are the 'McPhereson' brand) and are OK but I don't expect them to hold up for all that long and would certainly never ever recommend them.

I bought the car used and as far as I can tell the ride has remained the same, so I don't have a point of reference to compare them to. I know I would like an "improved" ride if possible but without introducing too much stiffness. My front end seems to be sagging quite a bit so I'll definitely be replacing all the springs. (They're pretty affordable anyway so I might as well)

 

[03TDICommuter]

FWIW, I put Bilstein TC's on my Jetta and hated them. Too stiff for high frequency bumps, too soft for low frequency bumps. Specifically my driving on the freeway, long dips the car would now bottom out. City streets with beat up asphalt, it was bone jarring. Swapped them after a month or two for Sachs and was very happy again.

My Beetle I bought used with Bilstein TCs, didn't know it but I sure felt it and instantly reminded me why I hated them. I put new Sachs on and they were too underdamped - floaty on the freeway. I ended up putting Koni reds on the front, and now the car is pretty nice, not jarring, but well controlled. Likely the lower stance/different springs on the Beetle is why the Sachs were bad on the Beetle, but good on the Jetta.

I do not recommend Bilstein TC's at all.

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

I do not recommend Bilstein TC's at all.

Duly noted! I appreciate the feedback

 

[BobnOH]

Options are numerous. VW TDI Search Engine
Simply follow oilhammer's advice. The ride will improve with fresh bits.

 

[Lug_Nut]

I’ve heard good things about other Koni dampers (such as the reds, NLA I think) and whatever replaced the FSDs.

It looks like the Koni "Special Active" line is the current iteration incorporating the Frequency Select Damping valving technology.

FWIW, I put Bilstein TC's on my Jetta and hated them. Too stiff for high frequency bumps, too soft for low frequency bumps. Specifically my driving on the freeway, long dips the car would now bottom out. City streets with beat up asphalt, it was bone jarring. Swapped them after a month or two....

I liked the Koni FSD (first generation, prior to the Special Active line) specifically because they are firm on 'slow' transitions, providing reduced brake dive, slower lean over rates on turns, definitely less 'float', yet they are 'soft' during more sudden impacts allowing the wheel and hub to move and return quickly without transmitting most of that expansion joint, pot-hole, shock into the car.
They work best when paired with the stock springs, not stiffer, higher rate springs.
But they (FSD) were crazy expensive. I don't want to think of what the improved "Special Active" replacement/upgrade line might cost!

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

It looks like the Koni "Special Active" line is the current iteration incorporating the Frequency Select Damping valving technology.

I liked the Koni FSD (first generation, prior to the Special Active line) specifically because they are firm on 'slow' transitions, providing reduced brake dive, slower lean over rates on turns, definitely less 'float', yet they are 'soft' during more sudden impacts allowing the wheel and hub to move and return quickly without transmitting most of that expansion joint, pot-hole, shock into the car.
They work best when paired with the stock springs, not stiffer, higher rate springs.
But they (FSD) were crazy expensive. I don't want to think of what the improved "Special Active" replacement/upgrade line might cost!

I was thinking about doing this setup! It looks like a full set of Koni Special Active struts/shocks is $600 :/ The OE struts/shocks are $250. Definitely a huge difference

 

[03TDICommuter]

I was thinking about doing this setup! It looks like a full set of Koni Special Active struts/shocks is $600 :/ The OE struts/shocks are $250. Definitely a huge difference

Check Tire Rack. They had the best prices on the fronts. I left Sachs Mexicos in the back.

 

[Zak99b5]

Good to know! I don't want the car any lower as my front air dam/lip already scrapes on even a very mild driveway. I did notice the Kerma springs raise the ride height, which I wouldn't be opposed to! Do you think those springs would be too stiff for daily driving use?

I have no experience with Kerma springs, so I can’t comment.

Just make sure you get the suspension that meets your goals for the car. Many different ways to go. You state you drive like a grandpa most of the time, so my guess/assumption is that a stock set up would suit you best. The new strut mounts will probably restore an inch or so of ground clearance in the front.

If you’d like to enjoy some spirited driving on the twisties occasionally, you could add a rear sway bar and/or go with something like Koni Yellows (on full soft) and Nuespeed SofSport springs, which would not be punishing in daily driving.

 

[Abacus]

I am also not a fan of the TC's, having put them on several cars. They just didn't feel positive, responsive, or worth the expense despite being inexpensive. I switched to the Bilstein struts and haven't really been impressed there either, with the regulars which were too soft or the HD's, which ride more like a buckboard. I have the HD's on the car now with HD springs and will be swapping back to the Koni Yellows with the HD (taller) springs in the spring. I liked the way the Koni's were more progressive without being harsh or floaty and I specially liked that I could dial the front and rear separately.

 

[DuraBioPwr]

If your a grandpa driver (like me) I would stay as close to stock as possible. My car has 305K and the stock setup is still fine. If and when I do have to replace I am looking for the same longevity. Aftermarket stuff is for the kid street racers.. let them have it. just my 2 cents.

 

[KrashDH]

FWIW, I put Bilstein TC's on my Jetta and hated them. Too stiff for high frequency bumps, too soft for low frequency bumps. Specifically my driving on the freeway, long dips the car would now bottom out. City streets with beat up asphalt, it was bone jarring. Swapped them after a month or two for Sachs and was very happy again.

My Beetle I bought used with Bilstein TCs, didn't know it but I sure felt it and instantly reminded me why I hated them. I put new Sachs on and they were too underdamped - floaty on the freeway. I ended up putting Koni reds on the front, and now the car is pretty nice, not jarring, but well controlled. Likely the lower stance/different springs on the Beetle is why the Sachs were bad on the Beetle, but good on the Jetta.

I do not recommend Bilstein TC's at all.

I counter this opinion. I think the TC's are stiffer than OEM but they are softer than Billy's other offerings. I have not bottomed out or experienced any issues at all. They handle well. I think you may have had something wrong with your shocks.

Duly noted! I appreciate the feedback

I wouldn't make your decision based on that last suggestion. Every product is going to have a duds. There are 10's of thousands of vehicles likely using this setup with no issues. I'm tuned with a far from stock setup at this point, and they compliment it well. They're almost a bit TOO soft for what I like, but for DD a stock commuter car there is no issues with these.

 

[03TDICommuter]

I counter this opinion. I think the TC's are stiffer than OEM but they are softer than Billy's other offerings. I have not bottomed out or experienced any issues at all. They handle well. I think you may have had something wrong with your shocks.

Two different cars with the same result though. Jetta where I put new TC's on. Beetle where the other guy had put on TC's, and I bought it from him. Not sure how long he had them on, but driving it I instantly hated it and knew the car had them. Looked and sure enough it did.

They are stiffer, but only for high frequency conditions.

 

[Zak99b5]

I think I’ve posted this here before, but back in the day when the vortex suspension forum was actually about tuning and performance, someone had results of shock dyno testing. The TCs did not perform well, having a “knee” in the graph. It was also surmised that this knee in response is what made them perform not all that great on the car.

Granted, this was 17 or so years ago, so the TCs may well have been revised and improved since then. But maybe not.

As for DuraBioPwr's “kid racer” comment, no one here is remotely suggesting Raceland coil overs or other such garbage.

 

[Zak99b5]

Link to thread referenced above

Check this out, especially post 13.

 

[DuraBioPwr]

As for DuraBioPwr's “kid racer” comment, no one here is remotely suggesting Raceland coil overs or other such garbage.

If aftermarket companies had even remotely the testing/tuning abilities of VW engineers i would maybe consider. 305K on stock stuff and still offers a great balance of compliance and sporty feel. Ive had aftermarket suspension stuff in past. All had severe tradeoffs.

 

[Wilkins]

I ran Koni reds with the TT bushings for a long time and thought they were good, just a wee bit firmer than the OE. Slightly more abrupt over small sharp bumps which I attributed to the bushings. Overall ride was more compliant than half a dozen Japanese or Korean models I can think of, eg 2015 Civic touring. Now running the OE struts I took off at 30k, with generic springs matching 2.5 beetle colours. Can’t tell the difference.

 

[ducatipaso]

I'm a spirited driver but like a compliant ride and not too low. For my GTI I had H&R OEM+ springs and Koni yellow adjustables installed, along with a 28mm rear swaybar. The drop was like 1" all around, it is definitely firmer, but the car handles wonderfully now and is very tolerable for a daily or road trips. My $.03, adjusted for inflation.

 

[ducatipaso]

oh and if you're still running the stock 15" wheels, a lot of your ride quality/quietness comes from those puffy sidewalls. I am running 235/45-17s on the GTI which does translate to more road noise, especially over expansion joints.

 

[Brett San Diego]

You said "grandpa," and most grandpa's I know like to save a buck or two. So, buy the OEM Sachs struts/shocks from FCPEuro.com. If you're not familiar with FCPEuro, they have a 100% warranty replacement policy for any and every part for the lifetime that you own your car. You can replace your struts/shocks for free (for cost of shipping) for as long as you own the Golf, no questions asked. Replace your shocks and struts with each oil change if you want. If you're really the grandpa that you say you are, then buy the Sachs OEM stuff and ride on. You'll pay only shipping costs for another strut/shock for the rest of your life (or your car's life).

For springs, you'll have to shop somewhere else. IDParts also has springs. I replaced my Jetta Wagon's springs with IDParts springs. They seemed a little stiffer, but fine.

Brett

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

You said "grandpa," and most grandpa's I know like to save a buck or two. So, buy the OEM Sachs struts/shocks from FCPEuro.com. If you're not familiar with FCPEuro, they have a 100% warranty replacement policy for any and every part for the lifetime that you own your car. You can replace your struts/shocks for free (for cost of shipping) for as long as you own the Golf, no questions asked. Replace your shocks and struts with each oil change if you want. If you're really the grandpa that you say you are, then buy the Sachs OEM stuff and ride on. You'll pay only shipping costs for another strut/shock for the rest of your life (or your car's life).

For springs, you'll have to shop somewhere else. IDParts also has springs. I replaced my Jetta Wagon's springs with IDParts springs. They seemed a little stiffer, but fine.

Brett

That's a great idea! I have never used FCP Euro so I'll have to check them out. I normally get everything from ID Parts. Their customer service is fantastic.

I'm wondering if I try the Koni Special Actives and don't like them maybe I can return them for the Sachs. I'm not averse to a more composed ride as long as it isn't too harsh.

 

[Lug_Nut]

I liked everything about the FSD on my B5.5V, except the purchase price. Once I drove the car I realized it was a steep price for admission, but well worth it.
When it was time for dampers (on yet another TDI), I debated whether to get the FSD or something less expensive. I got the FSD.

Peter at IDParts did identify a possible issue with his own FSD, an issue I never experienced in my driving with either car:
The dampers are slow responding (firm) on slow compression (slow brake dive, slow side lean on turns), but will end up compressed as would any other damper. If a high frequency (fast) compression is encountered (expansion joint) while the damper is already shortened by a high G turn or hard braking, the quick reacting (soft) valving could open and result in full compression onto the bump snubber.
Again, I never ran across that situation with either of mine.

 

[Zak99b5]

If aftermarket companies had even remotely the testing/tuning abilities of VW engineers i would maybe consider. 305K on stock stuff and still offers a great balance of compliance and sporty feel. Ive had aftermarket suspension stuff in past. All had severe tradeoffs.

I agree with you overall. The stock stuff is good. But I’d argue that Bilstein and Koni actually do make quality dampers with appropriate R&D. A lot of the other brands are junk. Also, the stock stuff is also making trade-offs. They just happen to be the trade-offs you prefer

 

[turbocharged798]

I think the OE stuff is trash, way too soft and doesn't last. I like the Billy TCs but they are a bit stiff. They do mellow out with age though. No experience with the HDs.

I hear Koni's have severe problems with rust if you live in the rust belt.

 

[Abacus]

I hear Koni's have severe problems with rust if you live in the rust belt.

That is an understatement.

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

I hear Koni's have severe problems with rust if you live in the rust belt.

Luckily I live in California and rarely drive through salted winter roads. My undercarriage looks great so far and I have 220k

 

[MrFahrenheit99]

Update: Went with OE springs (the Swedish ones), koni Special Active, Audi TT style LCA, new knuckles, new tie rod ends, new sway bar links, and all new bolts/hardware/bushings etc. NOT an easy install whatsoever but I got it done. Required a lot of muscle, manipulation, cutting and a second set of hands.

First impressions: Wow. Night and day difference from my 20 year old blown out equipment (duh). The very first time I drove it I was on the verge of thinking it was a bit stiff but realized it felt great. It sounds stiff when i go over road snakes and small cracks/imperfections but it doesn't translate into physical stiffness. Body doesn't pitch or roll in corners, braking doesn't pitch my car forward, and I can actually hear my tires instead of driveline noise.

My front end raised easily 3 inches however my rear looks to be about .5" lower . To my knowledge they were all original components. I'm hoping the front end will settle in and lower itself/soften slightly. Going to drive around for another day or two and take it in for an alignment.