Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group

KonaJack

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Location
Barrington, IL
TDI
2011 VW Golf
What he should know is that for the fuel to have the tax break in Illinois it has to be greater than 10% bio hence the most common blend is B11. Anything greater than that will probably cost more, as bio is usually more expensive than D2. His stickers should read Contains 11% bio or more as I doubt he is receiving anything less than that. Anything up to B20 has been approved by VW for TDI owners in IL
Drive more worry less.
The 11% or greater figure has always made me wonder why (when there is a sticker) it almost always says 'may contain a biodiesel blend between 5%-20%'. That certainly doesn't help differentiate between tax-break qualifying diesel or not. Interestingly, I've never seen a sticker that says 11% or greater. Most of the places serving up bio-blends charge as much or more than Meijer's (one of the last sellers of straight D2 around here).
 

KonaJack

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Location
Barrington, IL
TDI
2011 VW Golf
Did he explain why the bio blends were ashing up the dpfs on the fleet trucks to a point were they had to be removed and serviced? Bio should have less soot than D2 hence less ash to contend with. All this should comply with ASTM D6751 - 12, if not some hanky panky is goin' on and still even pure untransesterified oil or grease has less soot than D2.
The dpf is a soot filter or am I missing something.
I agree with you, that is why I asked about the fuel filter (thinking that perhaps bio is more apt to gel in our cold winters - I know it's supposed to meet regional specs but who knows with the constantly varying ratios. But he has made a business decision to avoid bio so there must be something behind the fact that he is willing to go through the hassle of avoiding 95% of the stations around here. The fact that no one ever knows how much bio is in any given tank (a tank truck driver told me it is almost always between 2% and 20%) gives me pause about trusting the bio sources here. I've seen posts from other members stating that they can get 5%, or 2% or some other specific amount. They are lucky to be able to get that information (wherever they are) because it doesn't exist in No IL. I just don't like the crapshoot nature of the way bio-diesel blends are being handled around here so I avoid it (mostly for the crankcase dilution issues and extra contamination risks).
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
The 11% or greater figure has always made me wonder why (when there is a sticker) it almost always says 'may contain a biodiesel blend between 5%-20%'. That certainly doesn't help differentiate between tax-break qualifying diesel or not. Interestingly, I've never seen a sticker that says 11% or greater. Most of the places serving up bio-blends charge as much or more than Meijer's (one of the last sellers of straight D2 around here).
Between 5%-20%' is a generic CYA sticker used everywhere (not just IL) as apposed to the reality of what is in the fuel. Do you actually think the fuel delivery truck has a custom sticker for what is being delivered? What I was eluding to was if the owner wanted to be accurate that is what his sticker should probably say. If his fuel was less than 11% it would not qualify for the tax exemption now would it? No harm no foul. Maybe you could relate this to him if you ever talk to him again.
 
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MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
I agree with you, that is why I asked about the fuel filter (thinking that perhaps bio is more apt to gel in our cold winters - I know it's supposed to meet regional specs but who knows with the constantly varying ratios. But he has made a business decision to avoid bio so there must be something behind the fact that he is willing to go through the hassle of avoiding 95% of the stations around here. The fact that no one ever knows how much bio is in any given tank (a tank truck driver told me it is almost always between 2% and 20%) gives me pause about trusting the bio sources here. I've seen posts from other members stating that they can get 5%, or 2% or some other specific amount. They are lucky to be able to get that information (wherever they are) because it doesn't exist in No IL. I just don't like the crapshoot nature of the way bio-diesel blends are being handled around here so I avoid it (mostly for the crankcase dilution issues and extra contamination risks).
Find out what that something is, as the Illinois bio blends should not affect his dpfs after 2 tanks. I agree with crankcase dilution but what are the other contamination risks? You talk like bio is poison and you are being forced to drink the kool aid. If what your guy says is true all the fleet owners would be having the same problem and they would not be able to purchase all their fuel needs from a select number (5%) of fuel suppliers. They also would be replacing or servicing their dpf's after every 2 tanks. Just because he made a business decision that does not qualify it as a good one. Many people where I have worked tried to blame failures of equipment on an issue where they did not fully understand the underling cause just shot from the hip and said "Yep that's it" in the end many of them were wrong.
 
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KonaJack

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Location
Barrington, IL
TDI
2011 VW Golf
Find out what that something is, as the Illinois bio blends should not affect his dpfs after 2 tanks. I agree with crankcase dilution but what are the other contamination risks? You talk like bio is poison and you are being forced to drink the kool aid. If what your guy says is true all the fleet owners would be having the same problem and they would not be able to purchase all their fuel needs from a select number (5%) of fuel suppliers. They also would be replacing or servicing their dpf's after every 2 tanks. Just because he made a business decision that does not qualify it as a good one. Many people where I have worked tried to blame failures of equipment on an issue where they did not fully understand the underling cause just shot from the hip and said "Yep that's it" in the end many of them were wrong.
The contamination risk I was alluding to was described in some post I read a year or so ago which relayed a detailed research report done for VW which found excess levels of contamination (algae/water etc) in over 40% of Diesel storage facility tanks. There was an extremely high correlation between bio content and contamination level. Not that it's the same science at all but the hassles remind me somewhat of issues with ethanol. I have to drive to Elkhorn WI just to get non-ethanol gas for my Alfa Romeo as the ethanol (which is in ALL NE IL gas) dissolves the natural rubber in the lines and gaskets of the fuel supply system.
 

KonaJack

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Location
Barrington, IL
TDI
2011 VW Golf
Between 5%-20%' is a generic CYA sticker used everywhere (not just IL) as apposed to the reality of what is in the fuel. Do you actually think the fuel delivery truck has a custom sticker for what is being delivered? What I was eluding to was if the owner wanted to be accurate that is what his sticker should probably say. If his fuel was less than 11% it would not qualify for the tax exemption now would it? No harm no foul. Maybe you could relate this to him if you ever talk to him again.
I know the sticker is generic. I also note that compliance, enforcement and accuracy seems rather lax. I'm not sure how they regulate the tax break situation for the station owner other than paperwork associated with each individual tank purchase.
 

ChiTownPilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Location
Valparaiso, IN
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI + Premium
Anything up to B20 has been approved by VW for TDI owners in IL
Drive more worry less.
I never understood why VW only sent the waivers to Illinois residents. If they are willing to honor warranty claims due to B20 fuel usage for Illinois residents, why not everyone? I live in NWI but work at O'Hare. The fuel range of the TDI usually means I don't have to worry about fueling in Illinois but it kinda stinks that I basically have to avoid 95+% of gas stations in Illinois. I have found a few gas stations off the toll road I use if in Illinois but I still think VW should at least extend the waiver to neighboring states.

We shouldn't have to suffer because Illinois implemented this tax break without thinking through the consequences!
 

eshawger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Rolling Meadows, IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
VW like most businesses is more concerned with their own perceived financial risk than they are about doing the right thing for their customers. It's likely that someone on the team that drafted that IL warranty letter realized the plight you and many other nearby owners are in, but chose to minimize their warranty claim risk and let you fend for yourself in court if it ever came to that.

I read a local newspaper article about the voided warranty if I fueled with >5% biodiesel only days after purchasing my TDI. I briefly went through serious buyer's remorse because the dealer "forgot" to mention it, as well as technically delivering an out of warranty car because they filled the tank for me but it was B11 from a local Shell dealer. Thanks to posts on the TDIClub I quickly learned I'd receive the exception warranty addendum letter from VWoA.

I recommend you call and write to VWoA requesting they send you the same letter those of us in IL got but with language including you in that group.

It should also help to suggest they send that letter to all registered owners in neighboring states as well. That should help paint the picture.

Maybe they will send you a new letter, and perhaps they might even respond to your request to cover all neighboring states as well.

I never understood why VW only sent the waivers to Illinois residents. If they are willing to honor warranty claims due to B20 fuel usage for Illinois residents, why not everyone? I live in NWI but work at O'Hare. The fuel range of the TDI usually means I don't have to worry about fueling in Illinois but it kinda stinks that I basically have to avoid 95+% of gas stations in Illinois. I have found a few gas stations off the toll road I use if in Illinois but I still think VW should at least extend the waiver to neighboring states.
We shouldn't have to suffer because Illinois implemented this tax break without thinking through the consequences!
 

JBell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Location
None
TDI
None
Ditto. Write VW and explain the situation. If you work in Illinois, it's reasonable to receive the same warranty as Illinois residents.


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trainslug82

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Algonquin, Il
TDI
2013 Jetta
A couple of fleet operators (mostly Ford trucks) told me about their problems with bioblends in our area. One said he had to pull all his filters after only a couple tanks. I asked if he was talking about the fuel filters and he said no, it was the DPF's - and expensive to boot. I know it's not a problem attributed to CR engines (yet), but is good to be aware of. I get the feeling that the quality of bio blends around here is all over the map.
Strange piece of research here: I constantly monitor EGTs via digital dash gauge and it seems that I regen more frequently when I fill with D2, vs B11. When I fill with D2, my pressure differentials drop between the pre DPF sensor and the post DPF sensor, triggering a regen. Sometimes twice a day (60 miles round trip) When I run Bio, it's consistently every other day and much more predictable. I'm pretty confused here because this contradicts all my understanding of how these fuels affect the DPF. I do run power service when I fill with D2, I wonder if that has anything to do with the more frequent regens. More experimenting to come. .......
 

Chitown Drifter

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Location
Chicago Suburbs
TDI
MK7, soon I hope
Great info; kicking this thread up!

I'm not a TDI owner yet, but I live in Chicago's western suburbs (Downers Grove, just off I-355 & 63rd st), so access to good fuel nearby will influence my decision (TDI or not TDI).
 

stringbeanbowler

Active member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Location
Oswego, IL
TDI
2014 Passat SE w/sunroof DSG
Is there an updated list for this? Because here in Oswego, IL the BP and the Mobil listed here are now biodiesel. They should be removed from this list. The Phillips 66 in Oswego has <5% though. 2501 Light Rd, Oswego, IL 60543
 

Only1Z

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Westchester, IL
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE TDI 6-speed manual
Great info; kicking this thread up!

I'm not a TDI owner yet, but I live in Chicago's western suburbs (Downers Grove, just off I-355 & 63rd st), so access to good fuel nearby will influence my decision (TDI or not TDI).
You have the perfect spot. Delta Sonic has awesome diesel in Downers Grove (or any of their locations that have diesel). It's the same Citgo Premium Diesel that you can get at only 1 Citgo station in downtown Westmont (the locally famous Jimmy's Premium Diesel).

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Only1Z

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Westchester, IL
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE TDI 6-speed manual
Best diesel is at any Delta Sonic that offers diesel. Next is Jimmy's Citgo in downtown Westmont which offers the same Citgo premium diesel as Delta Sonic. Meijers has decent diesel as well. Some Circle K owned Shell stations get their diesel from Ohio and it has 5% or less bio. And some Phillips 66 stations have D2 like the one in Willowbrook. After that, good luck trying to find 5% or less bio.
 

rjyoz

New member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Location
Chicago
TDI
BMW x5
BP - Lake & Skokie

1. Station Name
BP - Lake & Skokie
2. Address (city/state/zip) and/or Nearest Major Intersection
Wilmette, IL
D2 by Nibw on 12-29-09
840 Skokie Blvd
Wilmette, IL
3. Type of Fuel ("Conventional" vs. "Premium" Diesel No. 2)
B11
4. How Non-Bio Content Verified (Attendant, Manager, Distributor)
Manager
 

TDiSkater

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
Northern Suburbs Chicago
TDI
2011 JSW DSG Salsa Red
1. Station Name
BP - Lake & Skokie
2. Address (city/state/zip) and/or Nearest Major Intersection
Wilmette, IL
D2 by Nibw on 12-29-09
840 Skokie Blvd
Wilmette, IL
3. Type of Fuel ("Conventional" vs. "Premium" Diesel No. 2)
B11
4. How Non-Bio Content Verified (Attendant, Manager, Distributor)
Manager
There is no need to list verified B11 stations. 99% of stations are B11 now. When this thread was started it was the time period when stations were converting from D2. We now only highlight stations verified as straight diesel.
 

MilenP

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2000
Location
Burr Ridge, IL
Southwest Suburbs Update 4-16-14

Please don't hold me responsible for any inaccuracy. This is a list I just made after speaking with the attendants of the respective stations. Feel free to correct me if you find an error. Thanks!
Millen
Bolingbrook
Meijer
195 N. Weber Rd., Bolingbrook, IL 60490
630-679-6500
4/16/14 - Premium
Bolingbrook
Meijer
735 E. Boughton Rd., Bolingbrook, IL 60440
630-783-5301
4/16/14 – Premium – probably, based on above
Downers Grove
BP (under new management 6/16/09)
4314 Main St. (SW corner of Ogden Ave. and Main St.), Downers Grove, IL 60515
630-810-0190
4/16/14 - Bio
Delta Sonic (premium)
1415 Ogden Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60515-2734
4/16/14 - Premium
Elmhurst
BP
1003 N. York Rd., Elmhurst, IL 60126
630-833-2213
4/16/14 - Bio
Delta Sonic
600 W. North Ave., Elmhurst, IL 60126
630-530-8874
4/16/14 – Premium – attendant 95% sure
Hinsdale
Fuller's (premium)
102 W. Chicago Ave., Hinsdale, IL 60521
630-325-0088
4/16/14 - Premium
Lemont
Citgo (premium)
135th St. & New Ave., Lemont, IL 60439
630-257-7761
4/16/14 – not a gas station, just a refinery
Westmont
Citgo (Jimmy's Service Station) (premium)
260 N. Cass Ave., Westmont, IL 60559
630-969-2323
4/16/14 – may be Premium
 

gary2smart

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Location
Illinois
TDI
2013 TDI Jetta
Bio 10%

The Shell on Peterson (just east of Butterfield) in Libertyville still does not have any stickers on their diesel pumps. This is where I fill up 90% of the time.. I assume it's Bio but it I can't worry about it too much as I have had no issues with the fuel.
This station sells Bio 10%
 

gary2smart

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Location
Illinois
TDI
2013 TDI Jetta
FYI, has to be 11% to get the tax incentive. 10 won't help the station. IL code says biodiesel greater than 10% receives a tax incentive for the station.
If that is the case why is Mobil on the Toll at the Lake Forest Oasis selling 5% Bio content Diesel? Why wouldn't they just sell the premium?
 

gary2smart

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Location
Illinois
TDI
2013 TDI Jetta
when did they go back to B5? They had switched to B11 2 years ago. I know because I saw them change the sticker at Lake Forest one week to the next.

Here's an article.
http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/bl...supports-state-b11-tax-incentive-through-2018
I stopped in there and asked the owner who wasn't sure so he asked the station manager and he said it was B5. Note that I didn't fill up there as I am trying to only use Pure Petro with lubricity additive. I filled up in Salem Wisconsin BP and was impressed got 52/MPG first ever usually around 47.
 

TDIRoady

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Location
Midwest - Chicago, IL (Northern Suburb)
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 6-speed auto (DSG) w/Sun & Nav, Moonrock Silver Metallic, Cornsilk Beige
Shell Diesel

I wrote to Shell and asked;
I'm confused. Volkswagen specifically states that putting biodiesel in your tank will void your warranty and only use diesel 2. Apparently many people have had their vehicles fail using anything over 5%. Unfortunately B10 or B20 (10% or 20% biodiesel) is all that's available in Illinois. The VW manual does state that if you live in Illinois they will honor the warranty anyway. My concern is that Illinois diesel will kill the car long term, after the warranty period. Why is Shell selling diesel that is less quality than other States? VW also says use no additives so adding anything apparently would not help with less quality diesel products. What does Shell suggest?
P.S. Some Shell stations have stickers on the pump that says "NOT a Shell branded product". Is this a disclaimer of quality?

This was their reply;

"Thank you for considering Shell to fuel your vehicle.

All Shell Diesel meets the ASTM D 975 Specification (see attached). All Shell branded diesel is blended to contain a max of 5% bio content (ie max B5) across the USA. If the retail dispenser is labeled 6%-20% biodiesel, it is not a Shell-branded fuel. The dispenser should have a label that states that it is not a Shell-branded product.

However note that each Shell station is independently owned and may elect to offer a different non-Shell biodiesel blend at their discretion. The diesel fuel dispenser is required to be properly labeled as to whether it is a Shell branded product as well as to the bio content, so please look for this labeling (and if any questions please discuss directly with the specific Shell station).

So, for example, if the retail dispenser is labeled 6%-20% biodiesel, it is not a Shell-branded fuel. So again, Shell retailers may choose to offer a diesel fuel that contains more than 5% biodiesel, but the dispenser should be labeled to indicate that "this is not a Shell-branded product," etc. Furthermore, the Federal Trade Commission requires that diesel containing greater than 5% biodiesel must be labeled with the 5-20% biodiesel label (B5-B20). Some sates (like Illinois, it is almost certainly 11% biodiesel, driven by the state tax incentive) have some tax incentive by selling more % of Biodiesel and which is why the states may differ on percentage of biodiesel blends they offer.

For the location of Shell diesel stations across the US, please refer to the following website which contains the locations of all Shell diesel stations as well as access to a mobile app for your use while travelling: http://www.shell.us/products-services/on-the-road/shell-station-locator.html

But the bottom line to what type of fuel Shell would suggest for your vehicle – Shell always recommends that you abide by your engine OEM's recommendation for the type of fuel that you should use in your vehicle.

We appreciate the opportunity to serve you and look forward to providing you with quality Shell branded products and service in the future.

We value your patronage and hope you will continue to choose Shell’s quality products. If you have additional questions, please contact the Shell Solutions Center at 1-888-GO-SHELL (1-888-467-4355) or send an e-mail to shellcustomercare@shell.com."
 

Conrad -JSW

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 JSW DSG
D2 IS available in Illinois!

This is my go to station as I live near by.

Petro Truck Stop
Just west (less than a mile on Hwy-38) of I-39 & Hwy-38 interchange, Rochelle, IL
D2
$3.77 per gal
 

petrodude

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Location
elk grove village
TDI
2012 Touareg
Hello fellow TDIers,
I joined this forum because I just bought my first TDI. I know its hard to get clear diesel in Chicago area since everything is Bio... I deliver gas in Chicago and suburbs so I can be maybe helpful to locate few stations and recommend where to fill up your TDI.. There are few stations here listed that are posted as non-bio where they are.
First of all , bio diesel is the worst thing you can use to fill up your vehicle, I own a semi, and I run on bio since price/availability make me do so. But that causes hell of problems for my truck, including clogged filters, and failed injectors. I figured a way around it to help me eliminate issues with my semi, but can't do that to my touareg. I will post a picture of pure bio,(b100) how it looks. Not a pretty sight.

As we all want are cars to run well, we shouldn't be filling up with what's not recommend.

Speedway is all b11,
Circle K shell is all B11 confirmed with my dispatch.
Bucky's Mobil stations should be all B5 - I will confirm with delivery drivers tomorrow.
Clear ULSD DSL stations are
maijer Algonquin/Golf rd.Rolling Meadows.
Maijer - bloomingdale on Gary ave
Sam's club in Addison and Evanston
Food 4 Less Evanston and Melrose Park
Delta Sonic Downers Grove and Elmhurst.

Jimmys in Westmont is no longer clear DSL
BP in elk grove Wood Dale and Devon is B11.

Also Phillips 66 stations some have converted to B11. Beware of stations that look like crap on the inside, if the look crappy in the store their fuel tanks maybe same way. Before you fill up whether its gas or DSL look where the tank fills are. They have colored lids. Best is when it rains, see if the fills are covered with rain water or water is flowing by it. As many stations are independent owned, owners don't care about the quality of product the sell, as long as it sells. Phillips 66 are mostly privately owned. And owners don't care.

I suggest to create a list of confirmed clear DSL stations. I can put them all in like a txt file and post it here. I recommend to fill up at Sam's , since I know the are very meticulous in their maintenance, and confirmed clear DSL. Any questions please ask

Picture below is of pure biodiesel @ 24 degrees Fahrenheit
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[/IMG]
Here is an example of a shell gas station which is independent owned, completely unmaintained. Customer thinks that he's getting quality product but could be a mix of water. Note this is Premium gas fill
 

petrodude

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Location
elk grove village
TDI
2012 Touareg
Check out the biodiesel disclosure by Mobil. There are laws where station has to disclose whether they carry biodiesel. Not sure if Jimmy's has done it yet , I didn't see it there


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[/IMG]
 

Tom in chicago

Active member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Location
chicago
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagon TDI
thanks petrodude!

Thanks Petrodude... great to have someone in the know advising on where to get pure diesel... thanks!:)
 

Only1Z

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Westchester, IL
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE TDI 6-speed manual
I still just fill up at Delta Sonic. Car runs great on it. In about a week I'll get to fill up with some Amoco Premier diesel in Michigan. ?

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