Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
no mpg difference B11 - D2 for me

As much as I wanted to, I have not noticed any significant fuel mileage difference between Meijers and Speedway. I'm right around 36/37 mpg with either (80% highway, going with traffic, but 75 mph max.).
 

kylev20

New member
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Location
Chicago, IL
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI
I know this is a non-bio thread, but I couldn't help myself...If you are interested in B5, the Shell near 55 in Darien, IL allegedly has B5. The pumps specifically state that they only use B5 and it is currenlty running 4.23/gallon. The station is at 8975 Lemont Road. Its on the north side of 55 right off of the exit.
 

Thunderstruck

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Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Is 1-2 MPG statistically significant, or could that be explained by other factors such as temperature? Not all the Delta Sonics have the non bio. It's been a few years, so I'll reach out to the contact there and see if I can get an update. Somewhere in this thread I quoted the info I got about which Delta Sonics had what.
 

Only1Z

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Westchester, IL
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE TDI 6-speed manual
Is 1-2 MPG statistically significant, or could that be explained by other factors such as temperature? Not all the Delta Sonics have the non bio. It's been a few years, so I'll reach out to the contact there and see if I can get an update. Somewhere in this thread I quoted the info I got about which Delta Sonics had what.
No, it's really that much better. I ran 4-5 tanks of Meijer's and haven't run anything else locally other than the Delta Sonic since. I pay very close attention to this as my driving habits are very standard along with my work commute. I'd have to check my records but I probably ran 3 full tanks of Meijers and 3 full tanks of Delta Sonic between June and September when the weather should have been relatively close overall over a 3 week period on a tank.

Again, I don't hesitate to use Meijers diesel if I'm out and need fuel. But the Delta Sonic stuff is my go-to fuel choice. I am going to try to do a tank just driving 55 this summer and see if this thing can do close to 60 mpg. I filled up in Indiana and drove to my mom's house in the Glenview area doing 60-65 the whole way and the dash calculation when I pulled into her driveway was 57.6 mpg. I think given the right conditions and a 55 mph speed, I swear that 60 mpg's is possible without hyper-miling games. Granted, the dash readout is slightly optimistic in my car so I know that trip wasn't really 57.6 but closer to 56. But I think it can do it without playing games and driving 55.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
From what I've read the old 120 rule appears to apply-120 minus your speed is the mileage you'll see. At 55 under ideal conditions I'd expect you'll be close to 65 MPG.
edit: I just requested updated location info and a spec sheet from Delta Sonic.
 
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Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Location
Northwestern Chicago Burbs
TDI
2011 Black Golf TDI 4-door DSG 127,000 miles
BP Diesel in Volo, IL

For those of your curious if the recently added diesel option at the BP in Volo on the northeast corner of Route 120 and Highway 12, it IS bio with the 5-20% sticker. The Phillips 66 100 yards north, still sells pure D2. The Meijer in McHenry also sells the D2 but is a pain in the a$$ as it is not a pay-at-pump. They insist you pre-pay, essentially guessing what it will cost to top it off. I've run (twice) in to the problem where I purposely guessed over $75, just so I could top it off. They told me the balance would be reflected on my card. Negative. Each time I had to go back and rectify their lack of effort to return the difference to me. Hence, I avoid the pre-paid pumps as much as I do bio.
 

vette9190

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Location
Park Forest, Il
TDI
2013 Jetta TDi SEL
Hello all.
First post here
New to VW new to TDi. I was really excited when I got my new Jetta TDi SEL but this fuel issue has me worried. I drive all over the South East Illinois suburbs and Northwest Indiana for work(about 30k a year).
Basically east of I57 and South of 55th st. all the way to the Michigan border. I was wondering how up to date are these station lists and does anyone know were i can find D2 or B5 in my area? Right now I am going to the Meijers on Indy in Highland but that is not always convenient. The only other station I have seen on this list is Delta Sonic on Halsted in Homewood is this staion still ok?
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
... I was really excited when I got my new Jetta TDi SEL but this fuel issue has me worried....
Maybe you missed the letter from VW: they recently ok'ed up to B20 for our vehicles. Just check your oil level once in a while to make sure the level is not significantly increasing between oil changes.

Regarding stations, unfortunately I can't help with your area.
 

vette9190

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Location
Park Forest, Il
TDI
2013 Jetta TDi SEL
I know about the letter but I'd still like to try to avoid any issues if possible and it seems running non bio will help with that.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
According to the guy at Delta Sonic, "Our 5 Chicagoland locations still carry and sell the pure premium Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel from the same Chicago based refiner/distributor. There is no bio added. The location addresses that carry the premium diesel product are on our web site at www.deltasoniccarwash.com. We will be adding a sixth location at our Crestwood Illinois site in April 2013. So stay tuned."
 

Conrad -JSW

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Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
2012 JSW DSG
FWIW, perhaps mentioned already. But I happened to catch the fueler at Meijer as he was filling the station with diesel. Talked for a little bit. He claimed the Meijer diesel is the best pure diesel you can get. And pretty much the only place to get it.
This is the same thing that the fueler that I spoke with at the Petro truck stop in Rochelle (my go to station) told me. Hmmm.

I still have yet to get a letter from VW about the use of B20.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Can you find out who actually makes the fuel? 3 years ago they were using Citgo Premium diesel at Delta Sonic, because they sent me a spec sheet. I'm waiting on a revised one in case it's changed. That's the same stuff they sell at the little Citgo in Westmont. (Jimmys?)
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
At my local Speedway, diesel (B11, presumably) is now cheaper than regular!
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Ok, that didn't last long. Now they lowered regular again: $3.82 vs $3.86. But it's still the smallest difference I have seen since I have my diesel (which isn't that long).
Edit: and up again. Very odd. Regular $3.99, diesel $3.86.
And another 24 hours later: regular 3.919, diesel 3.999. Good thing I fueled up yesterday.
 
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eshawger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Rolling Meadows, IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Indy and Mich have more D2 than IL

Hello all.
First post here
New to VW new to TDi. I was really excited when I got my new Jetta TDi SEL but this fuel issue has me worried.
The online bio maps indicate IL has a much higher percentage of gas stations selling biodiesel above 5% than most other states. I'm sure that's the reason VW sends IL customers the letter modifying original warranty from 5% max to 20%. If you haven't received the letter, VW corp will send you one when you call.

It shouldn't be hard to find pure petrodiesel D2 on your daily drive through Indy and Michigan. If the pump is not labeled bioblend, even something vague like "may contain 5% to 20% biodiesel" then you are OK. The EPA can fine the dealer up to $32,500 per day, per violation if they don't label their pumps correctly. I'd say that's more motivation than simply trying to help us figure out if we want to fuel up there or not...
 
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eshawger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Location
Rolling Meadows, IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
The newest Marathon in Rolling Meadows on Algonquin near IL 53 has pure D2 Diesel. They were also the best about customer service! They showed me their delivery receipt when I asked: "#2 MV15 Diesel" I looked further to read their MDSD safety sheets and learned that they would have indicated the precise biodiesel blend if that was the case... Little expensive though at $4.45 on 3/31/13.
 

pitviper33

Active member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
GSW
Hi all. New TDI owner here, and I filled my tank for the first time last night. Thanks to finding this thread, I knew where to go.

I filled up at the Meijer in Bolingbrook, and frankly it was a complete disaster. As I see others have encountered, they have no credit card reader at the pump. So I assumed that we were doing this the old fashioned way: fill and then walk inside to pay. Nope. Prepay inside. So I walk inside and the lady insists I guess how much fuel I'll need. She refused to believe that I'd never filled the tank before. Eventually, with much difficulty, she managed to explain that if I overpaid, I'd just be refunded the rest. I said great, give me 20 gallons. She rings me up and I go outside to fill. The pump stops after about 11 gallons, but the car isn't full. I go inside and tell her it wouldn't give me 20 gallons. She claims that it'd given me all I paid for, so I pull the receipt out of my pocket. She had only charged me 45$. She said "You said you wanted 45$ worth." I replied "No I said I wanted 20 gallons." Her reply: "We don't deal in gallons here."

Seriously. They don't deal in gallons there.


After several trips back and forth to the pump and several employees getting involved, we eventually managed to get the tank of my car filled. I got back home and wrote an email to Meijer letting them know that I would become a regular customer, but they really need to improve the customer experience. A credit card reader at the pump would be fine. Pumping and then walking in to pay is also acceptable. But what I experienced last night was a total mess. I wasn't nasty in my email, and I was sure to thank them for continuing to offer a quality product when most of their competitors had gone to cheap stuff. I also left out the details about the ineptitude of their attendant. But really, is it always like this? I don't know whether my letter might make any difference. But if others are as frustrated by the filling up experience at that station as I am, maybe letting them know could help.
 

jdancer

Member
Joined
May 21, 2010
Location
Outer Space
TDI
Golf
Marathon diesel type in Winfield, IL?

Anyone know what type of diesel does the Marathon in Winfield, IL at the corner of Roosevelt and Winfield roads is? Clerk there didn't know.

Thanks for the info.
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Hi all. New TDI owner here, and I filled my tank for the first time last night. Thanks to finding this thread, I knew where to go.
I filled up at the Meijer in Bolingbrook, and frankly it was a complete disaster. [...]
I agree, it's ridiculous.
I went there for three fillups, but since the VW letter I have switched back to 'regular' B11, mostly because it's more convenient, but also for the added lubricity protection. Frankly, I'm not sure we're doing the engine any favor by feeding it D2.
 

pitviper33

Active member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
GSW
Didn't someone post a while back that Meijer was adding some kind of lubricity additive to their petrodiesel?

For what it's worth, somebody from Meijer emailed me back thanking me for alerting them to the problem. She said that she was forwarding my message to a "Director". I don't know whether it'll change anything, but at least it appears to have gotten some attention. They've clearly already lost some customers over it. If some of those other lost customers make themselves known to the director, maybe something will improve for all of us.
 

Dieselsci

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
New Haven, CT
TDI
2011 golf tdi
Hi all, I just got my 2011 Golf TDI 2 weeks ago. I love it, but am just coming to terms with the fuel thing. What I've read so far:
1. Manual states we should use no more than B5, and no additives.
2. In Illionois we can use up to B20. But what are the long term consequences?
3. Cetane, lubricity and cold weather operation are very important on top of purity. Meaning Pure D2 may not be the best choice, B5 being the best compromise?
4. HPFP: avoid low tank, avoid D2 without additives (lubricity), avoid crappy stations (moisture)
5. Re HPFP issue what happens in a year when I'm out of warranty?

Two observations thus far:
1. First filling was at a nearby BP (Cass avenue and 63rd) label says B5-B20. It was relatively cheap compared to some stations in the area. Drove well, although I could swear there was a strange heat shield rattle at around 2000-3000 rpm that wasn't there before, nor after I refilled with "premium D2" from Delta Sonic on Ogden, at about the halfway mark on the tank. Not sure if that means anything, or weather it was temperature related. (I drove '02 WRX so I'm very sensitized(paranoid) to noises etc)
2. I went on the Shell site and used their map to show diesel stations locally (http://www.shell.us/products-services/on-the-road/shell-station-locator/station-finder.html) most of the local ones don't show up for me, leading me to believe that the only ones that do show are the ones that Shell itself makes and delivers, which would be B5 or less as stated on their site. Which I think may happen to me Circle K stations, and I think ppl have mentioned those positively earlier.
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
mpg with Meijer's D2 versus B11

Re: Meijer's D2 versus B11
According to one of the service advisers at the VW dealership I use, several customers of theirs see a few mpg improvement when using Meijer fuel.
Personally I saw no difference over three fills (36.11 mpg for Meijer diesel, compared to 36.2 mpg average over all fills).
 

Dieselsci

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
New Haven, CT
TDI
2011 golf tdi
B5-B20 fuel use and 23j9/v5 recall

Hey all,
I contacted VWoA to get the B5-B20 notice after my recent purchase. Here is the google drive link:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5QdETkHBei6QThWVUg0WmZkOFk/edit?usp=sharing

The other interesting thing is I asked about the HPFP problem and how to avoid issues and what would happen out of warranty:
"To address the concerns some of our customers were experiencing with the high pressure fuel pump in their vehicles we issued the V5-Diesel Fuel Injection Lines recall campaign that you were referring to in your email. This campaign was completed on your vehicle on January 30, 2012 so you should not have to worry about the pump failing, as the recall to address this concern was already performed on your car. If you do run into any concerns with your Golf please feel free to contact the Customer CARE Center as we look into every concern on a case-by-case basis."
I looked up the 23j9/v5 he referred to and it seems like its an issue with the fuel line past the pump and it is something different from the actual pump failures themselves. Anybody have any ideas?

Here was the reply:
"The best way to maintain the high pressure fuel pump in your Golf is to follow the advice for maintenance outlined in the attachment I provided you in our last email.

We have researched the high pressure fuel pump concerns with NHTSA and have found that most of the time, concerns customers have experienced with the high pressure fuel pumps in their vehicles were due to improper fueling or using older biodiesel fuels found at less frequented filling stations.

Please only refuel your Golf at trusted, commercial fueling stations that are frequently visited by many drivers. These stations are more likely to have “fresh” biodiesel fuels that have not aged significantly.

If your vehicle runs into any concerns that would no longer be covered under the car’s warranties, please contact the Customer CARE Center as we look into every concern on a case-by-case basis, and seek out every opportunity to assist the members of our Volkswagen Family."
 
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TDiSkater

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
Northern Suburbs Chicago
TDI
2011 JSW DSG Salsa Red
Fuel line recall was due to fuel leaks at the #2 injector line off the fuel rail. Since recall, I haven't heard of any further issues. Something to do with mfg process and vibration frequency. They put dampeners on all the injector lines and for a few prize winners, replaced the #2 fuel line. I still have the fuel stains all over the top of my engine from the replacement.

Not sure what you expect VW to tell you about HPFP failures? They've blamed owners since day 1. Best to keep your receipts and fuel at high volume stations. Some use lubricity additives, but discussing that topic can rehash threads that have beaten that topic to death. Search on that topic if interested vs asking questions.

Enjoy
 
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Tom in chicago

Active member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Location
chicago
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagon TDI
My HPFP failed at about 3 months out of warranty. Jennings VW in Glenview managed a good will warranty extension and I got the fuel pump and entire fuel system replaced (nomal cost $6,000+).

In the year before the failure I routinely filled up at a BP in Highland Park where they claim to have pure diesel. I have to say that out of ignorance I was filling up anywhere there was no sticker for the first year or so until I realized that the stickers were pretty meaningless (in 2009/2010 there were hardly any stickers posted).

In any case, my fuel pump failed when I was running low on fuel. I researched pump failures at the time and it seemed many failures occurred when fuel was low. I would suggest never letting the fuel go below an 1/8th of a tank. If the glowlight plug warning light goes on, drive to the nearest dealer ASAP or if you want to be extra careful tow it in immediately.

I drove about 25 miles after the light went off and it started stalling after about 10 or 15 miles. Probably too late for the fuel lines at that point. Once shavings from the fuel pump enter the fuel system, it is toast and needs to be replaced. $6000!

I want to know if anyone has purchased extended warranty insurance and if so am interested in reputable companies. I love my TDI, but, would like to be covered if anything like this happens again.
 

lbgottlieb

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Location
Vernon Hills, IL
TDI
None
Hello fellow diesel enthusiasts......

New member here. Not a VW owner, but rather looking to become an owner of a MB E Class Bluetec. Different car, but the same issues with finding good fuel. I live in Vernon Hills - maybe 2-3 miles from Ernie's Shell on Milwaukee Avenue. I sat down with a salesman at Knauz MB last week and even he suggested that owners are filling up at Ernie's due to their need for pure diesel to run their expensive towing/flatbed trucks. While this thread is on a VW forum, it's really a tremendous place for all diesel owners to communicate and I am grateful to those who have contributed to it.

So here are my questions.....I'm curious to know from fellow diesel owners how annoying it gets in the "real world" to have to search out pure diesel while traveling. Is Illinois the only state that requires owners to be so diligent? What do you do when traveling thru multiple states? Anyone know of a website that is updated for this kind of information (I've skimmed thru this entire thread - maybe I missed something)? In terms of a contribution, has anyone ever considered reporting a station who sold B6+ without having their pumps appropriately marked? This could be a daunting task, but with the fines as high as they are for failing to do so, maybe this could be a means of eventually making things easier on owners.

MB makes it a point to have Illinois diesel purchasers sign a waiver, releasing MB from covering engine failure/damage due from the use of B6+ fuel. I was told from a service manager that the cost of repair to clean out injectors and such runs around $5,000. Interestingly enough. the 2014 E Class lineup does not include a diesel option, which makes me think that MB has figured to just not deal with the biodiesel issue at all.

Again, many thanks to you all for your contribution. Any productive thoughts or comments are both welcome and very much appreciated.
 

Dieselsci

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
New Haven, CT
TDI
2011 golf tdi
I was just curious what they would say, and if there was any new information. It doesn't hurt to ask.

I asked about the additives here specifically because I wanted to see what locals use regularly as it applies more to me than what ppl in warmer climates might or with better diesel availability.
I'll keep researching it though regardless.
 

lbgottlieb

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Location
Vernon Hills, IL
TDI
None
Yes. Only Illinois has incentives to sell biodiesel greater than 5%. The incentives were to run out in 2013, but then were extended to 2018 by lawmakers.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/bl...supports-state-b11-tax-incentive-through-2018
I don't make a habit of pretending to know of things that I have no knowledge about, but the article below makes me feel that over the next few years, more of the country is going to go the way of B11+. I'm all for cleaner burning fuels, especially in commercial vehicles/machinary. I guess I'm just disappointed in that I can't really see buying a Mercedes for the long-haul if it's just going to get more difficult to find fuel for it.

http://www.springboardbiodiesel.com/biodiesel-big-mandates-Initiatives-globalthis

While I'm not much a VW fan, I am very much impressed that the company has stepped up for its purchasers and is willing to stand-by them and their product. I imagine one real question is: is it only a matter of time when biodiesel will make its way across the pond and into the fuel tanks of European drivers.
 
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