Chevy Cruze Diesel a direct competitor to the Jetta TDI

[soot1]

I am somewhat puzzled by the article - at one point, the author mentions that the space in the trunk that is normally reserved for the spare tire is used up by the urea tank. So, where exactly is the spare tire in this vehicle (if there is a spare tire at all)?

 

[Suns_PSD]

I'm an ex 2005.5 Jetta tdo owner and I really enjoyed the car and it's driving dynamics. The largest reason I got rid of it was the incredible roar in the cab preventing me from conducting business while driving.

I view the modern Jetta chassis as a bit of a downgrade but I ove the 6 speed manual and the extra power.

I have decided to order my wife a Cruze Diesel as soon as my sales guy says that I can order. It's the entire package but also the local GM dealer, the 100K warranty, the UREA injection, the free 2 years of maintenance, and last but not least thru work I get employee pricing on GM products all contribute to this being the right car for us.

By 2015 I hope to be able to purchase the new yet to be released Colorado diesel for myself.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

Well congradulations Suns. I hope it works out for you. A little competition for VW is a good thing.

 

[Oberkanone]

No spare?

I am somewhat puzzled by the article - at one point, the author mentions that the space in the trunk that is normally reserved for the spare tire is used up by the urea tank. So, where exactly is the spare tire in this vehicle (if there is a spare tire at all)?

Not only is the 4.5 gallon urea tank in area where the spare tire was, overall trunk capacity is slightly less than gas model.

Reasonable prediction is Chevrolet includes inflation kit in place of spare tire. Spare tire will likely have to be purchased as accessory, similar to Hyundai Elantra.

 

[50harleyrider]

The lady my wife works for is refusing to buy a new Cadillac because it has no spare or place to put one. They told her to rely on her Onstar-lol

 

[tlhfirelion]

I'm an ex 2005.5 Jetta tdo owner and I really enjoyed the car and it's driving dynamics. The largest reason I got rid of it was the incredible roar in the cab preventing me from conducting business while driving.

I view the modern Jetta chassis as a bit of a downgrade but I ove the 6 speed manual and the extra power.

I have decided to order my wife a Cruze Diesel as soon as my sales guy says that I can order. It's the entire package but also the local GM dealer, the 100K warranty, the UREA injection, the free 2 years of maintenance, and last but not least thru work I get employee pricing on GM products all contribute to this being the right car for us.

By 2015 I hope to be able to purchase the new yet to be released Colorado diesel for myself.

Has the diesel for the Colorado been confirmed?

 

[DnA Diesel]

I am somewhat puzzled by the article - at one point, the author mentions that the space in the trunk that is normally reserved for the spare tire is used up by the urea tank. So, where exactly is the spare tire in this vehicle (if there is a spare tire at all)?

Way of the future. Tire technology has advanced enough that RFT or non-RFT, not having a spare is less risky than a lot of other higher probability bad things to happen to you.

I have a small inflation kit for my 335d - I don't lose a second of sleep over not having a spare. I learned a long time ago not to screw around on the side of the road trying to change a spare. If you can't 'spare' the time to have roadside come and help you either with the inflation kit or being taken into town, then you might want to think twice about even being on the road.

Folks think that a spare is some saviour...I'd say that's true only if you have a nice tool set and a 48" Jack-All with you as well. The crappy little "death jacks" most cars with spares have today are actually more dangerous IMO than waiting for roadside service.

Regards
D.

 

[kjclow]

I haven't seen anything that confirms the new Colorado will be sold in the states at all. Let alone in diesel flavor.

 

[veryhumid]

Not sure if this has been posted or mentioned, but when Chevy made a small diesel car many years ago, it got better mileage and cost less. I was literally angered when I read this: https://wot.motortrend.com/how-does...ck-up-against-the-chevette-diesel-328189.html

I guess Americans just don't want efficient cars, we want heavy, fast, fancy cars. It's a shame we have made so little progress in 30 years.

 

[Oberkanone]

Spare me

Way of the future. Tire technology has advanced enough that RFT or non-RFT, not having a spare is less risky than a lot of other higher probability bad things to happen to you.

I have a small inflation kit for my 335d - I don't lose a second of sleep over not having a spare. I learned a long time ago not to screw around on the side of the road trying to change a spare. If you can't 'spare' the time to have roadside come and help you either with the inflation kit or being taken into town, then you might want to think twice about even being on the road.

Folks think that a spare is some saviour...I'd say that's true only if you have a nice tool set and a 48" Jack-All with you as well. The crappy little "death jacks" most cars with spares have today are actually more dangerous IMO than waiting for roadside service.

Regards
D.

When you need a spare on a saturday night, in the winter, no auto dealers open, no tire dealers open, not so much as a Walmart or Kmart with tires within 50 miles, no way to get a tire until monday and your stuck on the side of the road with your family waiting for roadside service (tow) for over 3 hours hoping some drunk or tired driver does not kill you, there is great value placed on a spare tire.
This is not a hypothetical situation, I experienced this. Our VW has a full size spare, unfortunately I was not driving the TDI.

For myself a spare tire is mandatory in a general use vehicle. I don't expect one in a Corvette, I do expect one in Cruze.

 

[tlhfirelion]

When you need a spare on a saturday night, in the winter, no auto dealers open, no tire dealers open, not so much as a Walmart or Kmart with tires within 50 miles, no way to get a tire until monday and your stuck on the side of the road with your family waiting for roadside service (tow) for over 3 hours hoping some drunk or tired driver does not kill you, there is great value placed on a spare tire.
This is not a hypothetical situation, I experienced this. Our VW has a full size spare, unfortunately I was not driving the TDI.

For myself a spare tire is mandatory in a general use vehicle. I don't expect one in a Corvette, I do expect one in Cruze.

Geesh, the only thing missing from that story was an escaped serial killer with an axe and a hockey mask.

 

[El Dobro]

Not sure if this has been posted or mentioned, but when Chevy made a small diesel car many years ago, it got better mileage and cost less. I was literally angered when I read this: https://wot.motortrend.com/how-does...ck-up-against-the-chevette-diesel-328189.html
I guess Americans just don't want efficient cars, we want heavy, fast, fancy cars. It's a shame we have made so little progress in 30 years.

I used to drive past a tan/brown diesel Chevette for years, during my commute. About two years ago, it disappeared and there was a Chevy HHR where it was usually parked.

 

[jayb79]

For the money they are asking I would rather have the Mazda6.

 

[chudzikb]

As to spare, better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it. Full size spare really does give a sense of security on road trips. When in the middle of nowhere and no cell service, not such a great feeling. Although, I have changed one on 495 around DC, thought it would be my end. That was crazy.

 

[rotarykid]

Mazda Diesel sounds interesting except it's a very new engine design and Mazda did not do so well with the rotary-engine-design . . . . . can they get the diesel right?

Mazda did a really good job with the rotary engine over the last 47 years, it was used by Mazda across the Rx lineup of different models for close to 20 years, 1967 to the late 80s. And from the 1978 in the Rx7 to the end of production in 2002. Then later the Rx8 from 2004 to 2012.

Anounced in late 2012 "Mazda is committed to the continuing development of the rotary engine. Next year, 2013 we will launch an EV range-extender with a rotary engine."

And Mazda's diesel engines, in the 80s their US offered diesel engine was successfully used as a transplant on many Ford models along with Mazda offerings until CAFE ended in 1986.

 

[kjclow]

Not sure if this has been posted or mentioned, but when Chevy made a small diesel car many years ago, it got better mileage and cost less. I was literally angered when I read this: https://wot.motortrend.com/how-does...ck-up-against-the-chevette-diesel-328189.html

I guess Americans just don't want efficient cars, we want heavy, fast, fancy cars. It's a shame we have made so little progress in 30 years.

We've made a lot of progress in refinement of vehicles, engines, and emissions controls. Although the emissions controls are one of the things that hurts the mileage. My roommate in college had a chevette. At least monthly, he opened the hood and adjusted the clutch cable to tighten the pedal movement. The pizza place I worked at used Chevettes for delivery cars because they were one of the cheaper things out there. They could take a real beating but I wouldn't want one today even if it got 100 mpg.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

The Cruze Diesel indeed does not have a spare tire, similar to the Cruze Eco. Instead, there's an air pump and a canister of TPMS-safe sealant that you can use to repair any punctures that did not damage the sidewall. This was done on the Eco to reduce weight. It appears to be a common trend with vehicles these days, although the likelihood of a flat for most people is rather low. My last flat tire happened over 10 years ago. That said, they are available for purchase from a dealer or from gmpartsdirect.com should you feel the need to carry one at all times.

The Cruze uses a 1600-bar fuel pump that is driven by the timing belt. My understanding is that it is not the same Bosch fuel pump used in the TDI. I made sure to ask the lead Cruze engineer about this when Interviewed him a couple of weeks ago.

I have retracted the statement regarding the tax credit as the documentation given me may have contained errors. I made note of the revision as a comment in the article.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

 

[Sbeghan]

As an aside, why are the HPFPs on common rails driven by the timing belt? Couldn't they be moved to the serpentine belt or a separate accessory belt?

I've only needed a spare tire once in 10 years but when I needed it (valve stem blew out) I needed it and couldn't use sealant or a plug.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Not sure if this has been posted or mentioned, but when Chevy made a small diesel car many years ago, it got better mileage and cost less. I was literally angered when I read this: https://wot.motortrend.com/how-does...ck-up-against-the-chevette-diesel-328189.html

I guess Americans just don't want efficient cars, we want heavy, fast, fancy cars. It's a shame we have made so little progress in 30 years.

Americans do want efficient cars, but they also want clean air, and 10 standard air bags, and structural rigidity that allows them to survive a semi truck trailer falling on your car, and the list goes on. Want 100mpg? Swap a sub-2.0L diesel into a gokart. You'll be eating through a straw for the rest of your life if you're lucky when a suburban runs a red light and hits you. Unfortunately, comparatively strict regulations in the US are the reason why we can't have all the great things Europe has. You could run a 20:1+ AFR lean cruise and get ridiculous fuel economy, but the EPA would be knocking down your door and telling you that you're killing the environment.

Nice forum you have here by the way. A few VW/Import elitists, but that's to be expected. We have some hardcore Chevy fanboys over on CruzeTalk as well.

Name's Andrei by the way, and I'm the Administrator of CruzeTalk.com as well as the author of XtremeRevolution.net. I have many direct contacts inside GM in various departments from PR, to communications management, to senior engineering. I am not employed by GM, but I can get information, which brings me to this site.

I've skimmed through this thread and found quite a few misconceptions as well as questions. I'm here to help answer those questions and clear up those misunderstandings. Not that I have nothing better to do, but getting some good information out for another affordable Diesel in the US can only help everyone. As long as we keep brand-bashing to a minimum and have civil conversations about these cars, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you guys have, so ask away!

Mods, feel free to split this into a new thread if you believe it to be appropriate.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

As an aside, why are the HPFPs on common rails driven by the timing belt? Couldn't they be moved to the serpentine belt or a separate accessory belt?

I've only needed a spare tire once in 10 years but when I needed it (valve stem blew out) I needed it and couldn't use sealant or a plug.

I wish I could answer your question, but I don't have that level of knowledge. Might have something to do with ease of maintenance, but that's purely speculation.

 

[Oberkanone]

Cruze better than Jetta TDI

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/02...e-cruze-diesel-will-make-vw-step-up-its-game/

Buttons galore on steering wheel and auto headlights make the Cruze better than TDI?

Auto headlights are not preferred and neither are buttons galore if I have a choice.

I do agree that competition makes everyone better.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/02...e-cruze-diesel-will-make-vw-step-up-its-game/

Buttons galore on steering wheel and auto headlights make the Cruze better than TDI?

Auto headlights are not preferred and neither are buttons galore if I have a choice.

I do agree that competition makes everyone better.

Sarcasm is going to encourage me to answer questions here?

Steering wheel controls are offered in response to market demand, and I wouldn't exactly call them excessive. Auto headlights are a safety feature that is being offered in most new cars these days. Illinois State Law states that DRLs are required any time it isn't sunny, which includes overcast/cloudy, rainy, or snowy days.

The Cruze was one of the (if not THE) first car in its segment to offer 10 standard airbags. How many new cars do you think will come out in the coming years that will have less than 10 airbags?

We can spend hours arguing the purpose of standard features on the Cruze, but it won't really get us anywhere as most of the time, it will come down to either convenience dictated by market demand, or safety as required by government regulations. If you have questions, present them as questions, not snide comments intended to elevate one car above another.

 

[Second Turbo]

Pumping fuel and tires ...

> My understanding is that it is not the same Bosch fuel pump used in the TDI.

Precisely what make and model is probably less significant than:
What lubricates the pump?

> The Cruze Diesel indeed does not have a spare tire, similar to the Cruze Eco. Instead, there's an air pump and a canister of TPMS-safe sealant ...

The lack of a spare is not a deal-killer. The lack of a place to put a full-size purchased spare would be, and it sounds like putting it in the trunk would reduce the already modest Cruze sedan storage space (wagon needed, and that is a deal killer for me).

We already have tire pumps all both our vehicles. About 1/3 of our flats involve leaks too fast for that to provide limp-home. And we're almost always at least 20 minutes from the nearest service. Spare is not an option.

It would also be nice if the TPMS could be instructed to monitor a fifth tire. I suspect not.

 

[XtremeRevolution]

> My understanding is that it is not the same Bosch fuel pump used in the TDI.

Precisely what make and model is probably less significant than:
What lubricates the pump?

> The Cruze Diesel indeed does not have a spare tire, similar to the Cruze Eco. Instead, there's an air pump and a canister of TPMS-safe sealant ...

The lack of a spare is not a deal-killer. The lack of a place to put a full-size purchased spare would be, and it sounds like putting it in the trunk would reduce the already modest Cruze sedan storage space (wagon needed, and that is a deal killer for me).

We already have tire pumps all both our vehicles. About 1/3 of our flats involve leaks too fast for that to provide limp-home. And we're almost always at least 20 minutes from the nearest service. Spare is not an option.

It would also be nice if the TPMS could be instructed to monitor a fifth tire. I suspect not.

I won't be a fanboy and claim that the Cruze Diesel is for everyone, because I know it's not. It may just be that it does not meet your requirements, and that's fine. I know I won't be buying one, because it doesn't make financial sense. It wouldn't be an upgrade over my Eco, which already gets 50-55mpg highway and 39-44 mpg during my daily commute with a 29-33mph average speed. If it came in a wagon and a manual transmission, then we could talk.

I sent an e-mail to one of my contacts regarding fuel pump lubrication. I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

The Cruze is in reality a respectably sized car. While it is advertised as a compact, the interior space actually puts it in the smaller midsize category. It really depends on what your needs are. I would agree that a spare tire would take up a considerable amount of your trunk space.

We had a guy who had to use this system recently. Had a flat with a sizeable puncture that produced an audible hiss. The instructions on the canister mentioned that once you fill it up, you need to drive a little while, so he got in his car, drove half a mile, got back out, and the tire had stopped losing air. This was done in sub-freezing weather.

GM does offer a 5 year, 100,000 mile roadside assistance, which includes flat tires, lock-outs, and a towing service if necessary. It is an inconvenience, but at least you aren't left stranded indefinitely.

 

[Ted Hurst]

I've skimmed through this thread and found quite a few misconceptions as well as questions.

Could you list the misconceptions? What are some of your questions?

 

[Second Turbo]

Forum Cross-Ref

> Mods, feel free to split this into a new thread if you believe it to be appropriate.

There is already a discussion rolling in the Non-VW Forum, at:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=377532

 

[888]

Name's Andrei by the way, and I'm the Administrator of CruzeTalk.com as well as the author of XtremeRevolution.net. I have many direct contacts inside GM in various departments from PR, to communications management, to senior engineering. I am not employed by GM, but I can get information, which brings me to this site.

I've skimmed through this thread and found quite a few misconceptions as well as questions. I'm here to help answer those questions and clear up those misunderstandings. Not that I have nothing better to do, but getting some good information out for another affordable Diesel in the US can only help everyone. As long as we keep brand-bashing to a minimum and have civil conversations about these cars, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you guys have, so ask away!

Why thank you Andrei, I'll take advantage of your offer. I'm an admin on a regional VW/Audi site being invaded by Subarus at the moment so I am no stranger to brand debates. Please ask your contacts about availability of a manual transmission, and a wagon option. I hope GM does not seriously intend to offer this engine with automatic transmissions only. If they check most local classifieds such as Craigslist, they'll see that the only TDI's that aren't snapped up immediately are usually automatics.

As noted in a previous post, I have two Jetta TDI's and a VW bus but my wife also has a 2011 Malibu and I'd have no problems buying her a diesel Cruze as long as it had a 5 speed manual (a 6 may be better) and it was a wagon.

Make a base option available if possible, not everyone wants loaded vehicles with loaded price tags. For a long time, TDI's came with crank windows and there is nothing wrong with that. Same goes for cloth seats. My TDI's have crank windows and cloth seats and they are actually bonus points for me. There is a real opening for economical transportation in the USA. VW left the door open by not bringing the Polo TDI over and launching the decontented MK6 Jetta so GM could step right into that void with a nice base model at a reasonable price. Our home office in Germany has a BMW 5 series with plastic seats and crank windows, so if BMW can make it happen then GM can too.

Also, the automatic transmission is a deal killer/non starter for me on a TDI and the same goes for the Cruze. I suspect a lot of people are the same way; why get a diesel and attach it to something that saps the mpg?

I can live without the wagon but I would much rather have a wagon than a sedan, I've driven the Opel diesel wagons in Germany and they are fantastic.

And while we are doing the wish list thing, please make the next gen Cruze front end look less like the previous gen trucks/angry jack o lantern. Rear end is fine, front end could use a little toning down.

Thanks

Joe

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Could you list the misconceptions? What are some of your questions?

I didn't come here to answer questions; I came here to answer any that people might have. That said, I'll take some time.

This engine has already been launched in other markets, correct? Or are we getting something different than is selling in Australia, for example? If not, this drivetrain has gotten lukewarm reviews. NVH isn't great, neither is torque.

Correction: the engine is new to the US. It is based on the 2.0L Diesel sold internationally, but is architecturally different.

Several thousand more then the Jetta

Might want to check the options package.

an excerpt from one shill / article:
....That urea fluid, which helps put the clean in clean diesel, will need to be refilled at least every 10,000 miles.

Correction: the urea fluid tank is designed to go at least 10,000 miles.

Gonna go out on a limb here and predict it uses the Bosch cp4.1.....

It doesn't use a CP4.1.

Several have alluded to the one glaring issue... It won't be like the VW, German engineered driving experience.

Except the LTZ handles as well as or better than a BMW 3-series, and is designed to. The only difference in suspension here will be 17" wheels with LRR tires instead of 18" wheels with sticky tires. It actually does feel very "German."

1. GM continues to over charge for their products. There's no way in hell that thing is worth $2k more than a TDI. And, I used to buy GM a long time ago. A few years ago, my wife & I sat in an Acadia at a car show and the fit & finish was just typical GM--very bland. We compared the interior fit & finish to our '00 & '01 TDI (GLs non-the-less) and were amazed that something that sold for $35k+ had such cheap interior

When feature-matched, the Cruze costs $700 less than a Jetta TDI.

Personal experience here but when I was buying my first new car a Toyota Echo coasted me 16k which was their low end model, compared to a chevy cavalier was going for like 25k which was their low end model.

A lot of GM-bashing occurred around that post, but a Cavalier for $25k? I'd like to see the sticker sheet on that one.

Another Chev POS? No thanks, Jetta TDi for me

I quoted this post just to make it clear that I won't be wasting my time answering questions from people who make posts like this.

Ford did not get a bailout.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/ford-motor-co-does-u-turn-on-bailouts/

Sure, Lutz and Roger Smith are gone, but their cultural legacy lives on.

My direct involvement with GM and my ability to get specific problems escalated to Service Engineering and Brand Quality in a matter of days proves that the culture at GM is changing. It takes me one phone call to escalate anyone's issue to a case manager in GM's executive office. Not something you could have done with "old GM."

Two of my friends have 2 year old cruzes. They both have problems with the automatic transmission

There were drastic changes to the transmission going into the 2012 model year with regard to shift patterns, TCM responses to throttle, and fuel economy. The 2014 Diesel, however, will use an Aisin-Warner F40-A transmission, not a Hydra-Matic 4Tx0E.



One very common misconception is that the car is not competitive with the Jetta TDI. One person earlier pointed out that if you feature match them, the TDI is more expensive. Either way, until the official numbers are out and people start putting up some results for real-world fuel economy, a fair comparison cannot really be validly made.

Another misconception is that this car was created by GM as an economy car. Quite the contrary; it's an entry into the Diesel market that marks quite a significant achievement for any domestic car manufacturer. Kind of big news. The car is marketed as a flagship Cruze, not as an Eco with a diesel.

I'm not here to argue with people, so if anyone feels like thumping their chest and telling me how ****ty GM vehicles are, you can save your breath. Not that I'd disagree when reference to some of their past vehicles, but I simply don't care to participate in those kinds of "discussions."

 

[XtremeRevolution]

Why thank you Andrei, I'll take advantage of your offer. I'm an admin on a regional VW/Audi site being invaded by Subarus at the moment so I am no stranger to brand debates. Please ask your contacts about availability of a manual transmission, and a wagon option. I hope GM does not seriously intend to offer this engine with automatic transmissions only. If they check most local classifieds such as Craigslist, they'll see that the only TDI's that aren't snapped up immediately are usually automatics.

As noted in a previous post, I have two Jetta TDI's and a VW bus but my wife also has a 2011 Malibu and I'd have no problems buying her a diesel Cruze as long as it had a 5 speed manual (a 6 may be better) and it was a wagon.

Make a base option available if possible, not everyone wants loaded vehicles with loaded price tags. For a long time, TDI's came with crank windows and there is nothing wrong with that. Same goes for cloth seats. My TDI's have crank windows and cloth seats and they are actually bonus points for me. There is a real opening for economical transportation in the USA. VW left the door open by not bringing the Polo TDI over and launching the decontented MK6 Jetta so GM could step right into that void with a nice base model at a reasonable price. Our home office in Germany has a BMW 5 series with plastic seats and crank windows, so if BMW can make it happen then GM can too.

Also, the automatic transmission is a deal killer/non starter for me on a TDI and the same goes for the Cruze. I suspect a lot of people are the same way; why get a diesel and attach it to something that saps the mpg?

I can live without the wagon but I would much rather have a wagon than a sedan, I've driven the Opel diesel wagons in Germany and they are fantastic.

And while we are doing the wish list thing, please make the next gen Cruze front end look less like the previous gen trucks/angry jack o lantern. Rear end is fine, front end could use a little toning down.

Thanks

Joe

During my discussions with the GM engineers I spoke to (the aforementioned Mike Siegrist being one of them), it was made clear that GM cannot reveal plans for future models. However, they did say that if the market shows a need for it, they will produce it. I suspect there may be an issue sourcing a manual transmission that can hold 280lb-ft of torque, which may be causing the delay.

At least GM is using an Aisin-Warner transmission, which is generally known to be very reliable.

Let me know if you have other questions.

 

[Oberkanone]

XtremeRevolution[Illinois State Law states that DRLs are required any time it isn't sunny, which includes overcast/cloudy, rainy, or snowy days.]

DRL's are not required, headlights are.

It wouldn't be an upgrade over my Eco, which already gets 50-55mpg highway and 39-44 mpg during my daily commute with a 29-33mph average speed. If it came in a wagon and a manual transmission, then we could talk.

EPA mpg for Cruze Eco is 28 city 33 combined 42 highway for the manual and lower for the automatic. Amazing that you exceed EPA mpg by such a large margin, and in the Chicago area to boot. Almost unbelievable.

Existence of Cruze Eco with similar mpg to Cruze diesel and lower price makes it difficult to justify buying the diesel Cruze. Margin of difference in mpg with Jetta lineup between gas and diesel make the choice much easier.