Check your radiator/condenser fan operation NOW

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
I was able to confirm today that my problem with one fan only working on slow and the other only on fast is two bad fans... After testing voltages, I applied 12v and ground to the passenger side fan (easiest to get to the wiring). With the black wire grounded, the passenger fan comes on with power on the red wire and the drivers fan comes on with power on the brown wire. This confirmed continuity between the two fans and that they are both bad.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Had my fan fuse get crispy almost exactly two years ago, and at the time just flipped it around as it wasn't burnt out. This held up..until today. The fuse is still in one piece, but the plastic housing around it has been slightly melted. Are the fans just old and drawing too much current, or is my fuse holder in need of replacing? The system is still working great after flipping the fuse around again this afternoon. Car has 275k miles and as far as I know (owned since 167k) has original fans and fuse holder.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I think the problem is in the connection to the fuseholder.

When mine got damaged, I installed a 30 amp circuit breaker to the hot side of the fuse bus and bypassed the corroded, melted, fuse and holder.
 

passatforbus

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
NC
TDI
97 jetta tdi 244k stage 2 Malone Bosch injectors, 98 jetta tdi 240k injectors.
ok i need some help here please.. .

1997 passat new fan/compressor/txv/dryer(vacuumed no leaks then charged) ac blows cold. BUT!
turn key on AC button on, blower on.. no fan.
when i start the car and the compressor comes on the fan comes on low. been like this since i got the car. fan doesn't stop unless you push the ac button off. or turn the car off. i don't think this is hurting my compressor, is the fan supposed to go on high for the AC or does it just go high if the car gets hot. never seen it go high by the way on its own.

do i have a problem?
thanks
 

passatforbus

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
NC
TDI
97 jetta tdi 244k stage 2 Malone Bosch injectors, 98 jetta tdi 240k injectors.
whoops ok thanks just noticed that.
 

astonishedboy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Location
pickinoutthetitsburgh, PA
TDI
Y2k Golf, Black Mariah
The trouble shooting guide, step twelve, says to test for a pulsing reference voltage at T14/3. Is this different than testing for voltage to a ground? It says this voltage originates from the FCM. So I'm confused, am I to test this with the T14 plugged in? I'm getting zero volts unplugged.
Im getting 9v to compressor unplugged, but zero when plugged in... Fans are working..
Trying to narrow this down, instead of throwing parts at it. Any hints?
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Ok, Astonishedboy, for cars that have three (3) wire G65 Freon pressure sensors you get a computer signal from the sensor that looks like a pulsed voltage. The older four (4) wire Freon switch is just a low and high limit switch. I haven't read the exact step you are on, but it sounds like you are checking for the signal TO the FCM FROM the G65.

The FCM sends a miliamp, 12v signal through the clutch to verify that wiring is ok. Any load, like a test light, will make the voltage "disappear". My guess is the 9v you saw was because the load of your tester "used up" the other 3v, or you have some resistance in the wiring.

I use the general rule; 1) does the A/C button light up and blower fan work on all speeds? yes? Then 2) do the fans come on and A/C clutch engage? No? Is the 30A fuse on the battery melted? No? then the system thinks there is a problem. IE; G65 pressure switch bad, MIL (and therefore ECM) blocking A/C, low Freon charge.

BTW in the example I listed are usually the A/C problems we take the longest diagnosing at our shop. Good luck with your car!

Jason
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The area of testing the interface between the FCM and the ECM needs some work...yes, if you get to checking on steps 12 and 13, you must have the key on, engine running, FCM plugged in and be tapping into the wires. This is so hard to do, and such an uncommon failure, these steps should be absolutely the last things checked. There have been a few cases of ECM failures being the cause of loss of AC, but not very many. More common would be a wire broken.

But given your symptoms, I would check for a shorted or open coil winding in the AC clutch. That is the most common failure, and since the FCM sees the fault, it turns off the voltage, on SOME more modern FCMs.

So if your coil resistance is between 3 and 5 ohms (3.6 nominal) between the two wires feeding it, and the resistance from either wire to ground is greater than 100k ohm (usually shows the same reading as holding the probes apart in open air,,, 1+ or 1- on many modern meters), the the coil should be good.

The coil fails so often, and is so easy to check, that if your fans are working and the light is coming on, that is what you should check first.

Maybe this winter I'll get around to updating the PDFs??
 

dremd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
South Louisiana
TDI
06 sprinter. 03 jetta wagon premium with 6 speed ALH swap, 14 JSW
I just wanted everyone to see how hot the low fan speed wiring gets even when everything works fine and looks fine. My fuse has zero discoloration the plastic looks mint, the fuse contacts look mint no obvious signs of troubble on the wire.
That said, after seeing this I ran a fused 30 amp 10 ga wire direct from the + battery terminal to the fan control module. Since then I haven't noticed the fans going to high speed, low fan speed amp draw has gone from 8.5 to 11.2 and maybe (no #'s available sorry) the A/C blows colder.

Below pictures taken with Flir 1 on my iPhone 5s.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

astonishedboy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Location
pickinoutthetitsburgh, PA
TDI
Y2k Golf, Black Mariah
Thanks for the responses, dan and Jason.
Being that my multimeter doesn't meas duty cyc, I was trying to test all the voltages I could. I applied battery 12v directly to compressor, and no clutch still... So I'm guessing it is the coil... Haven't measured the resistances yet.
I was thinking it was the G65 since I had a problem in that area when the elbow to the intake from intercooler split and oil was spraying all over that side of the bay. Thought it might have damaged the g65 sensor...
But I picked up a used compressor for $35. I hope that installing this will at least get me through an August road trip.
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
If the clutch doesn't work and you have a used spare, then I would verify the spare and just swap the clutch. Saves having to evac and recharge the Freon system and having no idea of condition of the used compressor.

BTW-compressors should be sealed (never left open to the atmosphere), and ideally with ambient air sucked out and filled with nitrogen.

Jason
 

astonishedboy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Location
pickinoutthetitsburgh, PA
TDI
Y2k Golf, Black Mariah
Well, I was going to swap the clutch for the working used one, but when taking the nut off of the compressor pulley on the car, the nut sheered off :(

Guess I'll be putting a whole new compressor on :(

According to your last post, Jason, you say I shouldn't use a used compressor, as I'm not certain how long it's been sitting.
 

jayb79

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 20, 2000
Location
Exeter,NH
I was able to drill out the stud and tap it for a small bolt. All it has to do is hold the clutch on it has no force on it.
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
A/C systems have to stay sealed to stay functional. Think like brake system where the fluid absorbs water like a sponge. So a component left exposed to atmosphere for any length of time will be junk. Worst part to leave open in the compressor.

Not saying you couldn't put it on and get a few months out of it, but you may not even get it to work at all.

Jason
 
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astonishedboy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Location
pickinoutthetitsburgh, PA
TDI
Y2k Golf, Black Mariah
So I had the compressor replaced and the system recharged. Compressor clutch still doesn't kick in when AC switched on. But it does click when battery power is applied. Voltage going to compressor is 9v between the pins unplugged.

So my question is what is the next most common part to fail? Both fans are working.

My thought is the g65 sensor, because this is an area of the engine bay that got sprayed bad with oil when the elbow to the intake split. Think this may have damaged the sensor?
 

josephmiz

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
2001 Jetta
Hey! Recently changed the timing belt and related pulleys/tensioner/pump/studs. 02 Jetta TDI. Started up in an instant. A/C is now not working. Rechecked all connections, fuses. Connected A/C gauges and showing 120 lbs. static pressure on both sides.

Something I did wrong?
 

cbman18j

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2015
Location
Savannah
TDI
03 Jetta TDI (First Diesel)
Are the tdi fans the same as on other mkiv because my larger fan is seized? I have a parts car that is an 04 jetta 1.8t that I could swap if they are interchangeable, possibly save a few bucks.
 

dremd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
South Louisiana
TDI
06 sprinter. 03 jetta wagon premium with 6 speed ALH swap, 14 JSW
Are the tdi fans the same as on other mkiv because my larger fan is seized? I have a parts car that is an 04 jetta 1.8t that I could swap if they are interchangeable, possibly save a few bucks.
They are different sized fans, but fit just fine, I ran 1.8T fans on my swap for about 18 months 0 problems (until one of the fans quit).
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
Hoping I didn't kill my compressor tonight. The bearing in the pulley overheated to the point the belt was smoking. Poured a gallon of water on it and it was still sizzling. not good... Guess it's parked while I order parts.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Are you going to try to replace the carrier bearing and pulley?
It is usually easy to do in the "no salty roads" parts of the country.

But if it got that hot, it may have been spinning on the housing, perhaps disfiguring the mounting surface.

Does the center shaft still turn smoothly?
 

dremd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
South Louisiana
TDI
06 sprinter. 03 jetta wagon premium with 6 speed ALH swap, 14 JSW
Guess it's parked while I order parts.
Fyi: if you need to get someplace you can pull the belt and drive without the alternator for shocking distances especially if you are careful with your electric uses.
Also keep in mind that you WILL loose power steering without the belt.
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
Are you going to try to replace the carrier bearing and pulley?
It is usually easy to do in the "no salty roads" parts of the country.
But if it got that hot, it may have been spinning on the housing, perhaps disfiguring the mounting surface.
Does the center shaft still turn smoothly?
It was way too hot to check anything last night. The pulley appears to have been spinning but the bearing overheated. Luckily it all stayed together - just got super hot. I will pull it apart and see if I need a new belt too. I am hoping that I got it cooled off quick enough by pouring water on it (was a bit scared it'd catch fire). It was still sizzling after more than a gallon of water. I will pull it apart and see if the (relatively new) clutch coil got toasted. If it still ohms out good and doesn't look physically damaged and the compressor turns by hand, I'll put a used pulley/bearing assembly on - at least for testing purposes. Original compressor with over 200k miles.
Fyi: if you need to get someplace you can pull the belt and drive without the alternator for shocking distances especially if you are careful with your electric uses.
Also keep in mind that you WILL loose power steering without the belt.
I only have to make it about 300 feet to get it in the garage. I smelled it as I was pulling into my road and smoke poured out from the hood when I got in my driveway. My daily commute is over 50 miles each way - that would have sucked. Could have even been worse - buddy just trashed his ALH TDI when the serpentine belt failed and got stuck behind the crank pulley shredding the timing belt (second failure).
I'll post some pictures of what I find.
 

Coasty

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
Bolling AFB, DC
TDI
2002 Golf Manual 265k miles
I have high resistance at my ground: T14/6. Does anyone know where the end of this wire is actually grounded?
 
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