Check your radiator/condenser fan operation NOW

Nuje

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I guess my real question is this - why do you need to be topping off your AC so often?
I don't. I filled it once out of RedTek R12a cans (doing best estimation on weight - getting accurate weight of a can with a hose...not easy), but was wondering if it needed to be topped up, if a shop could add R134a, or if they'd have to do a full evac / fill.

What happens if you mix r12a and R134a?
Incompatibility: R12 and R134a have different chemical compositions and properties.
But R12 and R12a are different products, so that doesn't really answer the question (?).
 

PakProtector

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Couple suggestions from a satisfied user of the Fan and AC check instructions.

On testing duty cycle of the main AC pressure transducer, do it through the T14 pin and ground( no need to poke a hole in the wiring harness by the sensor )..
For the fans, test the low with a jumper between 1 and 2 as instructed, and with FCM plugged in( and key ON ), HIGH with a jumper between 2 and 3( on the radiator thermal switch.

For my 'not functional' it was broken wires on the ambient temp sensor delivering OPEN instead of ~1kOhm.

Douglas
 

Nuje

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2002 where the fans have been replaced and test/work well. A/C kicks in and works well in 30°C heat....provided we're moving. Once the car stops and idles, though, the A/C kicks off and fans stop spinning.

Given my (very) rudimentary understanding and diagnosis, is this symptomatic of simply being low on the R134a? I don' think the car has ever seen a top-up of refrigerant in its 22+ years of existence, so it seems like a likely cause.
 

csstevej

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Sounds as if you’re low on Freon…..0r double check the condition of the fuse on top or battery….. make sure that there is no corrosion on the terminals for the ac .
Second on is cheap….. first one is gonna cost you if you don’t have the tools😉.
 

Nuje

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Second on is cheap….. first one is gonna cost you if you don’t have the tools😉.
I know, right?
I went to a couple shops already and just told them "everything's working, I just want you to pull out what's in there, then measure and put back how much is supposed to be in there."
$250-$300 because they *really* need to check for leaks and and "you never know what might be the issue" and blah, blah, blah. 😕
 

csstevej

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It’s almost worth buying the tools yourself….. after the first service it’s free except for the price of Freon.
Harbor freights tools aren’t bad.
 

Nuje

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Yeah - well, that's the other complicating matter. R134a isn't available off the shelf in Canada anymore (nor Washington state, where I often pick up "only available in USA" things).
I actually have a set of the gauges, but have read that filling by pressure readings alone isn't ideal, plus again - getting my hands on some R134a.
R12a is available here, but from what I've gathered "topping up" the R134a with R12a is....even more "not ideal".
 

csstevej

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Damn….. Wally World here is selling them for $10.00 a can.
Every time I’m in Walmart I pick two cans up at a time.
 

csstevej

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Can’t get cascade German or idparts to ship you a couple of cans?
 

Nuje

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Oh wait - that reminded me....the last time I was going through Idaho, I stopped at a HarborFreight and picked up some cans. And just checked - I have one left!! :D
 

Nuje

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Can’t get cascade German or idparts to ship you a couple of cans?
Haha - I wouldn't want to ask them. Either they declare them on the import label, in which case there's a decent chance the package gets opened and the "not allowed in Canada" goods get confiscated. Or they don't declare them and risk some kind of penalty for not properly disclosing a cross-border shipment. Neither of those outcomes is anything to which I'd want to potentially subject those fine folks.
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
Is it illegal in canada now for 134A?
Nice on the find for at least one can.
 

Nuje

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Yeah - at least five years now....if not closer to a decade.
Basically, gotta be a shop / have a license to work with and dispense the stuff. R12a, though, is readily sold in every auto parts store as the "go-to" for DIY a/c refill, so I'm sure there's plenty of mixing of those gases going on, given the preponderance of R134a cars still on the road.
 
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P2B

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Once the car stops and idles, though, the A/C kicks off and fans stop spinning.

Given my (very) rudimentary understanding and diagnosis, is this symptomatic of simply being low on the R134a? I don' think the car has ever seen a top-up of refrigerant in its 22+ years of existence, so it seems like a likely cause.
Not normally a symptom of low refrigerant - one of the inputs is telling it to shut down, most likely excessive high side pressure due to freeze up or maybe a bad RCV.
I know, right?
I went to a couple shops already and just told them "everything's working, I just want you to pull out what's in there, then measure and put back how much is supposed to be in there."
$250-$300 because they *really* need to check for leaks and and "you never know what might be the issue" and blah, blah, blah. 😕
You need a less scrupulous shop, one that offers an "AC checkup" as a loss leader. They will typically call it good if it holds vacuum for a few minutes and recharge it for 80 bucks or so.
 

P2B

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R12a is available here, but from what I've gathered "topping up" the R134a with R12a is....even more "not ideal".
Many shops will refuse your business if you admit to having mixed refrigerants in the system, they don't want their equipment contaminated.
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
You can build your own recovery tank with an old window air conditioning compressor and a propane gas grill tank……
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
Here in the states you can’t get R12 ……
 

Zak99b5

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R12 is the old refrigerant from like the 70s and 80s. R12A is different. I believe it contains propane among other refrigerants, and it’s ozone-friendly.
 

P2B

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R12 is the old refrigerant from like the 70s and 80s. R12A is different. I believe it contains propane among other refrigerants, and it’s ozone-friendly.
... and it has very different characteristics to R134a (e.g. pressure requirements). It's not an ideal replacement, and mixing the two is a bad idea.
 

csstevej

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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,glutton for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB , added an 06 NB DSG
Ahh …..missed the “A” designation…… TBH…..I haven’t seen that Freon around here…..
 

towforce

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Ok.... feel free to yell at me for not doing full search of the 72 pages of this post :) (with thanks to the original author of the thread!)....

Want to start by saying a couple years back, noted my temp gauge was wandering away from my very German rock solid straight up and down (90C I think?) so I did the test, Sure enough, one fan was not working and because of the age of the car I just tossed in two new fans. I don't recall how much testing I did after that and because we have only a few limited hits of 40c or 100F plus encounters I had not noted any issue (and yes the AC works)

Recently in Washington State we had some extended trips in 105f + and noted the gauge was again doing a bit of a climb and for the first time noted the AC cut out (momentarily), as the temp dropped back to normal AC, again was running fine.

Now, AC is a bit of a mystical marvel to me but as I (think) I understand it, low refrigerant, under extreme temps will go "high pressure" and my AC will cut out (safety)? Or am I looking at this the wrong way, is it possible the AC is cutting off because I'm having a problem with the high speed portion of my fan setup (as it seems to have taken place exactly at the point the high speed should have turned on based on the specs of the thermal switch). I do recall testing my original switch and for one reason or another have a brand new one sitting in my spares (I get the feeling I was suspicious about the thermal switch test). For that matter, it may also be a fan control relay?

As my TDI is a 2005 and I know the AC has never been serviced its likely refrigerant is low, but the AC is working. Like many others I love to get it pulled and refreshed but lately shops are so backed up and hack about not wanting to touch anything "that old" I have not located anybody I can trust. I would do it myself, have the gauges/pump and stuff (an of course willing to have the old refrigerant recovered) but being in Canada, all the consumer can get their hands on is 12a (too funny when I mentioned this to a mechanic in the local hick repair shop in central WA.... he had never heard of the stuff... nice enough guy, handled my Suzuki no problem but was not sure about the Jetta).

I did dig around my notes, normally I download and keep some of the precious information available on this forum as I was sure I had a relay diagnostics someplace... if anyone has a link that would be great!

In the meantime, could someone confirm I'm on the right track with either "no high speed fan" and or "low refrigerant" causing the minor heat engine temp rise in extreme heat?

Thanks

Martin
 

towforce

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All the good stuff is in the first few posts.
Should have mentioned.... well searching the forum on an android (I'm on the road), none of the links on the original post worked to any of the pdf's or pages... they just looped back to original post. (or indicate the files are missing) .. Which is why I reached out in my last post.

Since then I noted the link issue on a couple other posts and solved "that problem" by bringing out the "big machine" .....

Cheers

M
 

Nuje

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Your symptoms sound very similar to mine (see a few posts up from yours): A/C works but then cuts out when it gets too hot (for you, driving in 40°C desert heat; for me, idling waiting in line at the transfer station in 30°C heat).

Like I mentioned, I have a can of R134a that I'll be dumping in via the manifold gauge set; I'm just waiting on the proper can adapter as my gauge set came only with the "puncture can" adapter, not the "self-sealing can" adapter. Amazon tells me it'll be here Friday.
 

SilverGhost

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I will add that AC is designed to shut off when engine starts to overheat. Other threads go into how the gauges are buffered and how the temperature is actually WAAAAY worse than you think by the time the gauge moves.

I would probably be treating this as a possible overheating engine problem first, rather than AC stops working. When is last time timing belt (and water pump) was changed?

Jason
 

towforce

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TB and WP done in the last 20,000km, coolents and related operations are good. In my case, pretty sure that expecting the
refrigerant to be correct is a little optimistic;-)... After all 19 years is a long time to have never been serviced. When I get a chance I'm going to do the complete fan/relay test to confirm high speed is actually working. Meanwhile, still searching for a shop I can trust to do a full recovery and refresh on the refrigerant.

M
 

Genesis

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VCDS can see the actual coolant temperature (the gauge cheats, but the real data is there); if the ECU is turning it off because the coolant is getting too hot you can see that in the data. I'd try to run it down; if you have a near-overheat condition that is important to address as even mild overheats, especially on diesels, are a common source of really bad and expensive events (like cracked cylinder heads and similar.)

With that said unlike a home A/C unit a vehicle's is not truly "sealed" as the compressor shaft has to protrude outside, of course, and as a result a verrrrry small amount of bypass to the outside is not unusual at all. Over 20 years time yeah, it matters.
 
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