Chances of 13-16 3.0's getting a fix

Motodude

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It is a big deal if you have to change it as much as the article says you will. why should someone that paid for a luxury vehicle be made to do this if the company intentionally cheated because it wouldnt have been able to sell those vehicles if they did it in the first place because consumers wouldnt buy them, as stated in the article. but now that they were caught in illegal activities, we should expect those same customers to have to ad that much. I would do it myself so besides my cost and time it would just be a pain. But some people take them to the dealership everytime for fill ups and that is a lot of wasted time if you have to refill every 1200 miles. I drive that in 2 weeks.
Q7 has AdBlue filler available externally, no big deal
 

nayr

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and its all just speculation; your getting your panties all bunched up for nothing at this point until we actually see what the fix involves

If the 2.0 Gen 2 Phase 1 fix involved consuming 10x more DEF then mebe you should be worried; but so far I've seen no reports claiming that.. Infact most indications seem to be that the larger engines will be easier and the fix will have less of an impact on overall performance and consumption in comparison.
 

IFRCFI

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and its all just speculation; your getting your panties all bunched up for nothing at this point until we actually see what the fix involves

No panty bunching here. I'm salivating over the chance that VW will get backed into a corner, and be forced to buyback my Gen 2 Touareg for nearly my out-the-door price when new.

I'd like to switch to an F-Pace or XC60. Gas, Hybrid, or EV.

35 gallons of urea for 10K miles? Nope. Check please.



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nayr

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and what makes you think it'd consume more def than cemi trucks? Typical compliant vehicles use about 2-2.5% of def to fuel.. A Cemi truck can go through 1500 gallons of diesel for 35 gallons of Urea

The numbers in that article your putting all this weight on seem junk numbers to me; for starters it was designed to go 10k mile service intervals without being refilled and they are talking 10k kilometers (6213m), so out of the gate they are misrepresenting how much def is consumed on non fixed vehicles by a factor of nearly two.

Lets run some real numbers, 10k miles @ 22mpg avg = 454g of Diesel * 2.5% == 11.35g of AdBlue, or 2 full tanks every 10k miles... or about 2x the consumption from originally planned.. not even close to the order of magnitude more that your silly article is suggesting.. and if your putting 1200 miles a month in highway miles on it you'll get even better as your MPG's should average out alot better than 22mpg (9 gallons of Adblue for 10k miles if you manage a 28mpg avg)
 
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Fourplay

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and what makes you think it'd consume more def than cemi trucks? Typical compliant vehicles use about 2-2.5% of def to fuel.. A Cemi truck can go through 1500 gallons of diesel for 35 gallons of Urea

The numbers in that article your putting all this weight on seem junk numbers to me;
First off, "semi (not cemi)" trucks are held to different emissions standards than passenger cars and SUVs (grams per bhp per hour vs. grams per mile) - you can't just apply consumption rates from a large truck to the vehicles affected by this scandal.

Second, the numbers aren't "junk numbers", they're pulled directly from internal VAG communications / reports that were found during the discovery process of a lawsuit.
 
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nayr

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a labor lawsuit by a german engineer who got fired; written by him and not pertaining at all in any way to US Spec compliance if even at all..

If you believe everything written in forbes then I guess you still believe Hillary will make a great president, The UK is never going to break up with the EU, and MH370 is hiding safely in Pakistan..

Diesel Pickup Tucks w/SCR seem to use about ~2-2.5% of DEF too; Ive seen several reports claiming that the 3.0CR TDI fix is expected to use about twice as much def.. I'll give more weight to them since they seem to make alot more sense than this pissed off former employee.
 

Mythdoc

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I had thought the chances of a successful (and approved) fix were 95% or better up until this week, until I found out that VW's financing subsidiaries are quietly removing 3.0 liter TDI's from the market in ways they legally can (withholding financing and refusing to release titles on leases they hold). These actions might just be an abundance of caution but I now think there is room to doubt a successful outcome.

I am hoping there is a successful fix. I love my Q5 and I love diesel. We'll see!
 

MBQ

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I had thought the chances of a successful (and approved) fix were 95% or better up until this week, until I found out that VW's financing subsidiaries are quietly removing 3.0 liter TDI's from the market in ways they legally can (withholding financing and refusing to release titles on leases they hold). These actions might just be an abundance of caution but I now think there is room to doubt a successful outcome.

I am hoping there is a successful fix. I love my Q5 and I love diesel. We'll see!
What is this? Can you elaborate it?
 

ccbsecu

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Simple fix - straight pipe and delete all emissions. No more DEF or headaches associated with the system.
 

psd1

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I had thought the chances of a successful (and approved) fix were 95% or better up until this week, until I found out that VW's financing subsidiaries are quietly removing 3.0 liter TDI's from the market in ways they legally can (withholding financing and refusing to release titles on leases they hold). These actions might just be an abundance of caution but I now think there is room to doubt a successful outcome.

I am hoping there is a successful fix. I love my Q5 and I love diesel. We'll see!
Uhhhh, whut? Source please.
 

flargabarg

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There's another thread in this forum about it. There were not enough details provided to know if it's a LTV problem or some other valuation related problem. Everything is so up in the air about these vehicles right now that I wouldn't be surprised if we have multiple causes going on that keeps people from buying them easily.
 

GoFaster

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I had thought the chances of a successful (and approved) fix were 95% or better up until this week, until I found out that VW's financing subsidiaries are quietly removing 3.0 liter TDI's from the market in ways they legally can (withholding financing and refusing to release titles on leases they hold). These actions might just be an abundance of caution but I now think there is room to doubt a successful outcome.

I am hoping there is a successful fix. I love my Q5 and I love diesel. We'll see!
This could be a purely financial decision to stave off people profiting by buying out their lease and then filing for a buyback (on a very expensive vehicle).
 

DanB36

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This could be a purely financial decision to stave off people profiting by buying out their lease and then filing for a buyback (on a very expensive vehicle).
...but since the only cars known to have a buyback are those through model year 2012, it seems unlikely that many (if any) of them would still be on lease.
 

IFRCFI

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...but since the only cars known to have a buyback are those through model year 2012, it seems unlikely that many (if any) of them would still be on lease.


Buybacks on 2013+ is undecided, as the fix is unapproved. Buyback numbers were calculated, and published in the court docs. People are hedging.


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DanB36

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Yes, the numbers are published, but anyone buying a 2013+ and planning to sell it back is on thin ice. I won't say nobody's doing this (how would I know?), but it's much more risky than doing this with the 2-liters, and the investment is considerably greater, so I'd expect that few people are going there. Certainly could be wrong, though.
 

Motodude

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Buybacks on 2013+ is undecided, as the fix is unapproved. Buyback numbers were calculated, and published in the court docs. People are hedging.




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Yes but if VW probably has an idea if they indeed are going to be able to fix or if this is just a move to hold onto all that money for an extra year. If they start making moves like this he is saying it could be an indication there is going to be a buyback.
 

Motodude

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Yes, the numbers are published, but anyone buying a 2013+ and planning to sell it back is on thin ice. I won't say nobody's doing this (how would I know?), but it's much more risky than doing this with the 2-liters, and the investment is considerably greater, so I'd expect that few people are going there. Certainly could be wrong, though.
I think quite a few people are doing this. I have called on 4 or 5 13-14's and have only been able to buy 1. They are moving quickly if priced right. Its kind of a no lose situation if you want one to replace 09-12 buyback. Worst case you get a good check for fix money and a killer warranty that makes the car very attractive. I know many people doing this. Then you just hope there is a buyback and its a double win.
 

az7000'

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I had thought the chances of a successful (and approved) fix were 95% or better up until this week, until I found out that VW's financing subsidiaries are quietly removing 3.0 liter TDI's from the market in ways they legally can (withholding financing and refusing to release titles on leases they hold). These actions might just be an abundance of caution but I now think there is room to doubt a successful outcome.

I am hoping there is a successful fix. I love my Q5 and I love diesel. We'll see!
We bought our 14 Touareg TDI in October and since we had 2 other outstanding TDI loans we had to finance with VW Credit at 5+%. Putting $19k down from the other 2 TDI's and refinancing this week to 2.65%.
 

Mythdoc

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I know of three cases where VWAG kept a TDI from being sold through a) denying financing or b) refusing to release title to a vehicle turned in off lease, even with a cash buyer. Perhaps just a natural caution by their bean counters not to expose themselves to the market. But as I say above, I have a little more doubt about the fix now.
 

nayr

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for most of the Audi 3.0 TDI's coming off lease the price they are paying to fix it and keep driving it is in excess of $10k; financially it would make sense to keep a hold of any of these vehicles they have, fix them and sell them and possibly requalify them as CPO vehicles again later in the year..

Could be seen the opposite way you are; that a likely fix is imminent and they think they can get these vehicles fixed and resold before it costs them ~$10k in storage and deprecation value.
 

Mythdoc

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^^to be clear about scenario b), lessee x turns in car, dealer lists it for sale, purchaser y offers cash, dealer accepts offer, VWAG refuses to release title and kills deal, purchases vehicle from dealer.
 

Mythdoc

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for most of the Audi 3.0 TDI's coming off lease the price they are paying to fix it and keep driving it is in excess of $10k; financially it would make sense to keep a hold of any of these vehicles they have, fix them and sell them and possibly requalify them as CPO vehicles again later in the year..

Could be seen the opposite way you are; that a likely fix is imminent and they think they can get these vehicles fixed and resold before it costs them ~$10k in storage and deprecation value.
Could be, I suppose. Doesn't seem right in my gut though. Dealers don't like holding cars. Maybe VWAG would pay them to hold them. Seems more likely they are paying to get them out of circulation. Whatever the reason, please bear in mind that I am not predicting "no fix." Only that I have moved from ~95% before this news to lower probability. i certainly hope a fix happens as I bought my Q5 to keep long term.
 

SundanceGS

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But its clear it dont consume full tanks of def in as little as 1200 miles either.. so yeah of course it changes the power profiles but thats not what you were talking about...
If you care about Dyno numbers so much then why not just get an aftermarket Tune; thats my intentions.. The Malone Stage 2 on my 2.0 TDI was great; and on the 3.0 TDI there's far more potential to be had.
I would agree with the Malone tune... I had one on my 2010 Jetta Cup Edition and it was really wonderful... however, a tune might cause issues with any extended warranty that we would get on the emissions system (if a fix does occur), which is a risk many are not willing to take. While I would absolutely love to see what a tune on my Porsche Cayenne diesel would be like, I just can't see risking it for at least a few years after any supposed fix. Anything that breaks on a Porsche is bound to make me financially unhappy if it isn't covered by a warranty.
 

DASH

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Simple fix - straight pipe and delete all emissions. No more DEF or headaches associated with the system.
I can't wait to do just this... I have 28k left on my warranty should be this time next year I'll have a DPF delete and full exhaust.
 

DanB36

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There are better ways to profit, vs. the white-trash "flip a used car" gig....
For the amount I've made (and there are plenty here who are making considerably more), I'll happily accept the label of "white trash" from someone who doesn't know anything else about me. Have a nice day.
 
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