CETANE ratings in Canada Eh?

bluesmoker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Location
Maple Ridge, B.C.
TDI
2004 pd 5 speed tip
I have recently switched from Extra Foods Gas Bar, who I understand use Diesel from ESSO. I recently replaced my Air Mass Meter and Glow Plugs, but was still getting poor mileage. I tried a local bulk fuel outlet (uses Shell Diesel) (BC government edict that Diesel must contain 5% Bio) and have been experiencing possibly 15% increase in mileage. This to me is remarkable. I asked what Cetane levels at both places, but was given the "sorry nobody knows" reply.
Although somewhat subjective, I feel that the car runs a lot more smoothly. I would like to know what levels are considered proper for my TDI. I currently have 240,000 KM on my Beetle and now I seem to have the zip it used to have. Are the Cetane levels possibly slipping throughout the market or the lack of having to post Cetane Levels is making producers a bit lax?
Love the information in this post keep it coming...



1999 Beetle TDI
2009 City Jetta
the loss of mileage may also be because the lower mainland fuel stations switched to winter diesel, it has more d1 (kerosene) in it to prevent gelling
 

Drevaen2

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Nov 1, 2010
Location
Quebec, Canada
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG

codex

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Location
GTA, Canada
TDI
2010 Golf
I've recently exchanged a few emails with Suncor/Petro-Canda regarding their diesel fuel quality. Specifically, the intent of my emails was to (1) express my disappointment that Gold Diesel is no longer available due to the Sunoco/Petro-Canda merger and (2) inquire about the quality of Petro-Canada diesel fuel.

Personally, I've had my 2010 Golf since the end of June; my first couple tanks were Petro-Canada diesel, I then switched to Gold Diesel until the local Sunoco stations all disappeared. I am now using Petro-Canada diesel again and am adding Power Service White. I would still be using Gold Diesel if it were still available.

There may or may not be any new information here, but I thought I'd share Suncor's responses with everyone (too much information is better than not enough!):
The Sunoco Gold is an Ultra Low Sulphur seasonal diesel with an up treated package that includes;

Additional Lubricity

Stability

Anti-oxidation

Dispersants

Anti-Corrosion

Detergent

De-icer

Cetane Improver

The diesel fuel sold at Petro-Canada is an Ultra Low Sulphur seasonal Diesel that has lubricity additive, anti-corrosion properties.

Both fuels meet and exceed the requirements of the diesel fuel national standard CAN /CGSB - 3.517 Automotive (On-Road) Diesel Fuel.

The diesel sold at Petro-Canada and the renovated Sunoco stations, that used to sell Gold diesel, is the same high quality seasonally adjusted Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel.
I then further inquired about cetane ratings and lubricity level of Petro-Canada diesel, and received the following response:

Petro-Canada diesel fuel must meet the National Standard CAN/CGSB – 3.517 Automotive Diesel fuel minimum cetane requirement of 40. However typical production is usually greater than 45 as there is blend to blend variation depending upon blendstock availability.

Lubricity additive is required by the National Standard CAN/CGSB – 3.517 Automotive Diesel for all Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel produced, and must meet a maximum of 460 um rating by the HFRR test rig.
 

flyboy320

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Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Location
GTA, Canada
TDI
2018 e-Golf
Here is some info I got from husky;

1. Some parts of the engine require a lubrication spec (scar rating) of no more than 460 HFRR. What is the scar rating of the Husky DieselMax?
All diesel in Canada already meets and exceeds the Canadian spec for lubricity. One of the test methods to test lubricity is the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig Test (HFRR Test) with a result of a wear scar diameter of less than or equal to 460 μm at 60°C.. Husky's diesel has a wear scar diameter that is well below 460 μm at 60°C. With the addition of Husky's premium diesel additive, DieselMax, lubricity is increased even further to well exceed any lubricity spec

2. Is there any biodiesel in DieselMax?
If there is a provincial mandate for renewable fuels in your province, certain locations will receive a blend of up to 5% biodiesel in the warmer months of the year.

3. What is the cetane rating of DieselMax?
The specification for cetane number in Canada is 40. Diesel producers usually blend a diesel with a cetane of approximately 41-42.
The cetane improver in Husky's DieselMax additive increases the cetane number above this range.

DieselMax also provides the following benefits
• Reduces exhaust emissions
• Maintains fuel injector cleanliness ensuring operation at peak design conditions
• Cleans-up pre-formed deposits to ensure efficient combustion
• Cleans up dirty fuel injectors in 1 to3 fill-ups
• Contains cetane number improver
• Provides excellent thermal and storage stability
• Contains a lubricity improver which adds additional lubricity over the Canadian specification
• Provides corrosion inhibition
 

fastalan

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Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
So we DO get better diesel fuel in Canada than those sold south of the border.

Well, it's more expensive.
 

cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
I would assume because we pay more...lol. It could be our winters, or it could just be our wonderful governments of past has set the standards and forced the refineries to make better quality at a cost to them and us.

In the US, too many people, not enough policing/regulating brings lower quality????

You have to remember, even Canada is still lower grade than Europe.

Or I may be completely off base not having a clue what I am talking about....
 

Tabou

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf Wagon Highline - 6MT
Hi,
just found this thread. This changed my perspective a bit. I try as much as possible to fuel with VPower Diesel. But it seems that PetroCanada is as good (which would make refueling easier and keep on getting Sears/Petropoints) combo. Thanks all that did some research on this.
 

TDImania

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Location
Qc, Canada
TDI
2011 Golf TDI CR
If you make more mileage with a different station you have to take in consideration the road type this day, highway driving % and Wind this day or during this tank.

What you could be sensitive with a better diesel is engine noise and power, turbo lag or turbo whislte, less pedal effort under 2k rpm to sustain speed in flat or in a hill with lower instant MPG reading than past fuel tank on the same day to day road/hill.

My car is brand new, TDI CR 2011, the first tank the engine was powerful, torquey and got less pedal effort than my 2nd fill with Irving. I went and ask my dealer of what kind of diesel they put in tank when new and it was ULTRAMAR.

So, I've put half tank of ultramar and it went great ! Yes ultramar.

Just wanted to let you know. The engine is a little bit noisier.

I'll try Petro Canada later and maybe ESSO.
 

XXX_er

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Location
northern B.C.
TDI
2002 golf
So we DO get better diesel fuel in Canada than those sold south of the border.

Well, it's more expensive.

I have long suspected canadian diesel was better than US diesel , I got 350,000kmn on 2 TDi's burning fuel from mostly the husky refinery in Prince george some from the refinery in Kamloops and both cars always ran the same as far as I could tell

Diesel is more expensive than reg down south would be the key thing IMO
 

Terrific-In-Tahoma

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Jun 4, 2012
Location
East-of-Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TDI
'01 ALH Jetta
I should conduct some research on my local diesel distributors' cetane ratings in California. Stay tuned.
My normal e-mail address ends in [domain-name].ca

but that is different then CA.

So my Capitol City is called Toronto, not Sacramento.

I drive on the right side of the road, but I speak a foreign language, because the FL DMV ,ask that I have a International Drivers Permit.:mad:

CA is a very beautiful state:), but the fuel prices are comparable to Southern ON:(.

You can drive a bicycle on the road without any liability insurance, but if that bicycle has an electric assist, AND the pedals are disabled (Not bolted to the crank), then you are deemed to be driving a motor-bike, not a bicycle, and subject to having motor vehicle (mandatory) liability insurance while driving on the road.

I believe this sub-tread was started because the original poster omitted the brand(s) that are commonly available north of the US-Canada border.

Granted, there have been no new refineries constructed in Canada for the last 10 years, yet the fuel consumption numbers have gone up. So the only place to get additional refined fuels is to

A) Get it delivered via tanker to a Port Side Terminal, or

B) Ship it via pipeline to any of the distribution hubs in Canada. which probably means US Jobs in the Refinery businesses wherever the refinery is located.

I am assuming the comment was in jest, as there is this thread [

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=200694 ]

started by user 'BeachedBora', that has the CA inferred in the listing, although, as this link shows, http://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceReport.aspx?state=CA&site=All , the prices for fuel appear to be extremely high for petroleum products, no doubt due to legislated taxes embedded in the price.

If the CETANE level is a measurement that is a quality control type thing, and is adjusted seasonally due to temperature, or other factors , at the refinery level, then there must be a Minimum standard that it has to comply with.

Now Diesel Semi-trucks have larger displacements, so their cetane values may not be as critical as those in a TDI, but how are you going to test the value of each batch of fuel you purchase? be it in CA or in .ca?

The only consistent way to measure the performance is to see how many miles you get out of a tankful (or Mostly tankful) and then add from a different brand next time and compare.

Is CA not a regulated entity that sends inspectors around to sample retail dispensers, so that it meets the state's regulations for motor fuels?

See this link for the so called 'standards' that they(CA gov ) uses.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf

from what I read the minimum Cetane for CA fuels is 53.

so yes, you may want to ask , but the minimum value for California is far above what any Canadian refiner puts into the tankers for shipping to any Canadian customers.

Even if we did favour one brand of diesel over the other , the volume of fuel consumed per vehicle fill up is not very significant compared to the fuel consumed for trucks in Ontario. (currently is taxed as the rate of approx $700,000,000.00 [Yes 700 Million for Diesel alone]) per year (as per last budget statement 2013), so that translates to

3,398,058,000 Litres of fuel consumed in 2011.

even CA has a cheaper rate on diesel fuel (75.3 US cents per US Gallon) excise tax than ON does (78.3 US cents per US GALLON).

There is no Federal Standard for Cetane levels because it is very much a temperture dependant formula, where the fuel will become cloudy, for that month of delivery. In Canada (according to a report from the Pembina Institute), there is only a Voluntary Mininum Standard of 40.

so in conclusion, you get Better Fuel , at a Better Price, with Less Road Tax in CA than you do in Ontario.ca.

-Terrific
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Palermo, State of Jefferson/Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
even CA has a cheaper rate on diesel fuel (75.3 US cents per US Gallon) excise tax than ON does (78.3 US cents per US GALLON).

There is no Federal Standard for Cetane levels because it is very much a temperture dependant formula, where the fuel will become cloudy, for that month of delivery. In Canada (according to a report from the Pembina Institute), there is only a Voluntary Mininum Standard of 40.

so in conclusion, you get Better Fuel , at a Better Price, with Less Road Tax in CA than you do in Ontario.ca.

-Terrific
Does your quoted rate above include the 1 Jan 2013 increase of sales tax on diesel fuel to 9.67% for California?

BTW diesel is NOT considered a "motor vehicle fuel" in California; only aviation fuel and gasoline are. See California Revenue and Taxation Code section 7326
 

jptbay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay
TDI
2003 Beetle, 2006 Jetta Wagon
FYI

Husky has discontinued its Diesel Max additive program spring 2014. Although many retail pumps still have a Diesel Max sticker on them, additive is no longer added.

Shell regular and V-Power diesel is the same, comes from the same tank. Stations that have V-power have additional additive injected at the retail pump, when you fill your car.
 

Lat

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
2012 BMW X5 35d, 2006 Jetta TDI
FYI

Husky has discontinued its Diesel Max additive program spring 2014. Although many retail pumps still have a Diesel Max sticker on them, additive is no longer added.

Shell regular and V-Power diesel is the same, comes from the same tank. Stations that have V-power have additional additive injected at the retail pump, when you fill your car.

That's unfortunate. Do you have a source?

I've been going without additive for the last 5ish years, purely because DieselMax is the same price as other D2. Looks like I'll have to stop being lazy and start using Power Service white for every fillup.
 

jptbay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay
TDI
2003 Beetle, 2006 Jetta Wagon
I have ties to the industry. Sorry to be cryptic, but better to be careful.
 

NarfBLAST

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Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
Sorry, this thread was sort of dead and I am not driving a diesel anymore so I am not really interested in updating it. The information in post#1 is four years old (last edited in 2010) so it sort of makes sense to start a new thread if there is enough interest in Canadian CETANE ratings.

Will someone take up the torch and start a new thread? I would be happy to put the link in post#1 of this thread.

edit: maybe there is already a thread for Canadian Cetane ratings? Let me know.
 

colezy9

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Jul 19, 2006
Location
Canada
TDI
2013 Passat TDI Highline
Sorry, this thread was sort of dead and I am not driving a diesel anymore so I am not really interested in updating it. The information in post#1 is four years old (last edited in 2010) so it sort of makes sense to start a new thread if there is enough interest in Canadian CETANE ratings.

Will someone take up the torch and start a new thread? I would be happy to put the link in post#1 of this thread.

edit: maybe there is already a thread for Canadian Cetane ratings? Let me know.
Any updated information or another thread somewhere?
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
I was just at a Husky the other day and they had "Diesel Max" labels still stuck to the pump. No telling what the actual cetane rating was.

Its 40 minimum in Canada, otherwise, *nobody cares, apparently. (*nobody means none of the big fuel suppliers)

My only advice is: Drive more, worry less.

If you are taking your diesel to a race track maybe consider importing some synthetic diesel, but if you are at this level you probably already know about that.

I am just thankful I don't have to worry about different grades of gasoline and the ridiculous price differences between them.

I am driving the Volkswagen again, which is nice. My other car is a 2014 Honda Odyssey which averages twice the fuel consumption, but it uses regular gas, which is down to 90 cents a litre around here vs 120 cents for diesel. I still come out ahead every day I can cram all of the kids into the Volkswagen; diesel would have to go up to 180 cents before driving the gasoline vehicle broke even!

Diesel on my friends.
 
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Flyboy777

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Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Location
Huntsville, Ontario
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI W DSG
Cetane rating

I have sent both Esso and Shell Canada an email to ask what their Cetane rating is for their diesel fuels. I can say that I’m impressed with the mileage I'm getting currently with Mobil/Esso synergy diesel. Their claim is that it can take you up to 2% further and I’m am experiencing this now. I usually only get 5.9 to 6litres per 100km with winter diesel but now I’m getting 5.3, that is significant. Usually my mileage drops by .5 in the winter but it barely dropped from 5.1 in the summer .... I’m impressed! I’m also going further between DPF regens.... : up to 485 km! That tells me this is a cleaner burning fuel so I suspect that this fuel has a higher Cetane rating. I’ll post when I hear back from them.
 
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