CBEA Engine Swap ???

[MP517PRCT]

So, my '09 JSW died on Friday.

Was driving on interstate and got a "Oil Pressure Low Stop Engine NOW" warning on the dash, pulled off at next exit (about 1/2 mile) stopped engine and checked oil level. Oil was ok, so I restarted engine and drove about 200 yards before the car went into limp mode so I shut it down and called a tow truck and had it towed to York Volkswagen.

Service manager called on Monday and said that they started the car and the engine was so loud that they immediately shut it down for fear that it would seize up. They gave me three options, first tear into the top side of the engine to look for damage ($500-$1000) and confirm that the engine is shot, or tear into the bottom of the engine to find out what caused oil pump to fail ($500-$1000) and then confirm that the engine is shot, or replace the engine(about $7000).

Well, considering that this car is going to be "bought back" in a few months, dropping $7k on a new engine is not going to happen (I bought the car a few months ago for $7200). However, the blue book value on an inoperable car is next to zero, so just letting it sit until VW gets their plans together isn't really a viable option either.

Which leads me to looking at getting a used engine from a salvage yard and doing an engine swap. I found a CBEA engine with 83k on it close by that I can afford, but the engine came out of a sedan with an Automatic Transmission and my JSW is a stick. Has anyone done this, and are their any compatibility issues, or will the replacement engine bolt right up to the manual transmission?

 

[oilhammer]

Your hex shaft stripped out. If you had shut it off right away and left it that way, it could have been repaired.

But anyways, any CBEA engine or CJAA engine will work fine. However, your car's injectors are matched to your ECU, and if you swap in a whole engine WITH injectors, they should be calibrated to the ECU for best running quality.

There will also be a couple of plumbing cooling bits that are different auto vs. manual that will need to be changed.

 

[MP517PRCT]

The engine wasn't making any crazy noises when I shut it down, would the stripped out hex shaft explain some loud noise? Total engine run time from warning popping up on the dash to shutting it down for good was maybe 2 minutes.

 

[runonbeer]

How many miles on the car?

I have a used, excellent condition CBE engine complete with turbo, injectors & everything else.
I could even delete the BSM prior to shipping it to you.

 

[MP517PRCT]

122k miles on the clock

 

[oilhammer]

The engine wasn't making any crazy noises when I shut it down, would the stripped out hex shaft explain some loud noise? Total engine run time from warning popping up on the dash to shutting it down for good was maybe 2 minutes.

Yep, that is about 1 minute and 50 seconds too long. If your heart stopped pumping blood, you'd not last long either. That is just how important the oil pump is to the engine.

The turbocharger would have gone first, then the engine.

That red warning light that says to stop means STOP. But that is water under the bridge now, use it as a learning experience for the future.

The CJAA engines do not use a balance shaft assembly FWIW. You can "delete" them on the CBEA if you like.

I'm thinking that at t-belt time on the CBEAs it may be wise to drop the pan and at least shove a new hex shaft in place. That won't help the female hex in the #2 balance shaft that drives it, but may allow them to run a little longer.

I've heard of this (but never seen it) happen on upgraded BHWs, too.

 

[meerschm]

As the owner and driver of an 09, (with 165k), thanks for the details of what the car told you when it detected the oil pressure failure. ( I have a $12 shaft, but have not convinced myself I need to change it right now)

did the car ding as well? (like it does when the outside temp goes below 39 degrees)

Thanks

 

[MP517PRCT]

nope, no "ding" just a flashing warning...

with the oil pump being so critical that the engine would be cooked after 10 seconds of no oil pressure, one is left to ponder "wouldn't it make sense to wire the oil pressure switch to the HPFP, so that if oil pressure drops below the set pressure it kills the fuel to the engine and prevents damage..."

 

[Henrick]

Was the low oil pressure light also present at idle RPMs?
I've started a thread on this several weeks ago just to find that out. I'd say it's stupid design that the light comes on only at 1800 RPM and above.

Replacing hex shaft on these engines will not completely solve the problem. I have noticed that even the new hex shaft when inserted has got some free play inside the slots. This free play causes wear each time the tension is being applied and released (engine start and stop). No idea how to solve this issue. Seems that a bit oversized hex shaft would do the trick but experienced mechanics say those are made from special metal and machining a custom one is a big no no. Then welding comes to mind but it's too tight there...

 

[oilhammer]

nope, no "ding" just a flashing warning...

with the oil pump being so critical that the engine would be cooked after 10 seconds of no oil pressure, one is left to ponder "wouldn't it make sense to wire the oil pressure switch to the HPFP, so that if oil pressure drops below the set pressure it kills the fuel to the engine and prevents damage..."

You'd need not even do anything that involved. You'd simply need to write some simple code in the car's software. The same information that the Instrument cluster uses to display the warning could also be used to shut the engine down.

BUT... no manufacturer does this. Some GM products way back when used to (low oil pressure would cause the fuel pump to turn off). But a lot of those cars when they got worn out, which was pretty quickly really, would have the issue of the engine stalling at hot idle in gear (automatics), so many simply got the oil pressure switch bypassed... and then there was no warning at all, ever.

Nope, they gave you a big red warning, same as everyone else. You ignored it, and it broke. Not much you can do now.

 

[runonbeer]

Not much you can do now.

He could buy my engine

 

[C3156]

I'm thinking that at t-belt time on the CBEAs it may be wise to drop the pan and at least shove a new hex shaft in place. That won't help the female hex in the #2 balance shaft that drives it, but may allow them to run a little longer.

I would agree for the 09's. It's about $20 in parts and a couple hours labor. Worth it for such a critical system.

 

[Henrick]

Don't wire the oil pressure switch to HPFP. Wire it to cut power of main ECU relay instead. That'll make almost clean engine shutdown. But before doing such a solution, one needs to verify the oil pressure switch is operating as expected in all RPM range and under all conditions (engine stone cold and hot, etc.)

Are there any custom/aftermarket oil pressure switches for VW with known PSI rating?

 

[Paulinski]

I swapped my hex shaft at 70k miles it was significantly worn.

The replacement shaft is thicker than factory one.

Cheap insurance in my book.

 

[redbarron55]

How much trouble to chance out the hex shaft?
My 2009 JSW has 250,000 miles and I worry a little about this thing.
So far so good, but it is an issue.

 

[meerschm]

Seems simple (once you have the oil pan off) snap ring and pull the shaft with a small magnet.

tricky part seems to be that there is an intercooler plumbing part mounted to the oil pan.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=457591&highlight=hex+shaft

Paulinski, any more hints you can share?

Thanks

 

[Henrick]

I swapped my hex shaft at 70k miles it was significantly worn.

The replacement shaft is thicker than factory one.

Cheap insurance in my book.

Did the new shaft have any free play when inserted back?

I've seen free play on euro-spec BSMs when even the new shaft was in. However, the BSMs were dropped on the floor; it might be difficult to check while it is still on the car.

 

[runonbeer]

Don't wire the oil pressure switch to HPFP. Wire it to cut power of main ECU relay instead. That'll make almost clean engine shutdown. But before doing such a solution, one needs to verify the oil pressure switch is operating as expected in all RPM range and under all conditions (engine stone cold and hot, etc.)

Are there any custom/aftermarket oil pressure switches for VW with known PSI rating?

I'm afraid your engine would never start.

Look, the solution to this problem is a BSM delete. It's really just that simple.

 

[Henrick]

I'm afraid your engine would never start.
Look, the solution to this problem is a BSM delete. It's really just that simple.

Ouch, you're right, it won't start.

My 1.6 TDI does not have a BSM, it has got oil pump driven by a lifetime toothed belt.

However, most people around (some of them even driving with chained BSMs) do not understand how serious is this. Usually they either assume "it won't happen to me" or "I'll fix it when it breaks".