CBEA/CJAA DPF info

[relumalutan]

New to the CBEA platform: 2011 Audi A3 TDI. Bought it in August 2024 with 129k miles on it, just realized in the cold month of November that the coolant does not reach operating temperature. Replaced the thermostat, now it reaches the operating temperature. Currently at 134k miles.
Soot in tailpipe, no errors in VCDS, 150ml ash. Is my DPF bad?

 

[oilhammer]

Your DPF was doomed as soon as the car left the factory. The Dieselgate "fix" just made sure it'll happen more often. It may have already been replaced at least once.

 

[privateTDIjet]

New to the CBEA platform: 2011 Audi A3 TDI. Bought it in August 2024 with 129k miles on it, just realized in the cold month of November that the coolant does not reach operating temperature. Replaced the thermostat, now it reaches the operating temperature. Currently at 134k miles.
Soot in tailpipe, no errors in VCDS, 150ml ash. Is my DPF bad?

Like at all? No amount of driving is getting it up to temp? Noticed today at -7*C even just using the damn heating sitting in traffic lowers my coolant temp.

 

[relumalutan]

Like at all? No amount of driving is getting it up to temp? Noticed today at -7*C even just using the damn heating sitting in traffic lowers my coolant temp.

Hooked up the VCDS to the car as soon as I got home after driving it on the freeway for 30 minutes, the coolant temperature was 70C (158F). Drove the car for a few miles, as soon as it got some airflow from moving the temperature went down to 65C (149F), and stayed there until I got back home. I've let it idle in the driveway, the temperature soon climbed up to 72C (161F). My assessment is that the thermostat must have been stuck open.

After replacing it, the coolant reaches the normal operating temperature of 90C. It is my understanding that the ECU will not allow a regen to take place unless the coolant reaches 87C

Long story short, my question is: can the DPF be shot even though there are no errors in VCDS, but there is soot in the tailpipe? I tend to believe that the answer is yes. Or perhaps the lack of regens due to the coolant never reaching operating temperature has something to do with the soot on the tail pipe?

I would prefer to not change the DPF unless it really needs to be changed.

Once again, I'm totally new to the CBEA platform, coming from a MK5 Jetta BRM.

 

[pedroYUL]

@relumalutan , the soot you see could be from a previous DPF failure, not your current one necessarily.

 

[relumalutan]

The hell knows what to do anymore...

1. On one hand I have soot on the tailpipe but no errors in the instrument panel or VCDS.

2. On the other hand, I read a post somewhere on this forum, someone saying he experienced the same symptoms (soot on tailpipe, with no codes), drove the car for another 10k miles, until finally the DPF error showed up in his instrument panel. People told him that he was supposed to stop driving the car as soon as he noticed the soot on the tailpipe and replace the DPF. They've also said that he's lucky for not clogging the DPF and killing the turbo in the process.

In regards to the possibility of the soot being caused by a previous DPF failure: I'll take the car to a manual car wash and spray the hell out of the tailpipe, then monitor it to see if the soot re-appears.

 

[pedroYUL]

Hmm, I think it would be better to wipe that stuff with a rag, some mineral spirits and a short rod.

 

[Lightflyer1]

It's like anything else. The more damaged the DPF substrate is the more soot that gets by. The more that gets by the shorter the EGR system is going to last before it sets a code. The less the longer it takes to set a code. Either way, at some point you're going to be doing a fix. I would just drive it and start planning for when that light comes on. Assuming you want to keep the car. Otherwise sell it before the code is set. Much easier to sell a car without a trouble light on.

 

[relumalutan]

It's like anything else. The more damaged the DPF substrate is the more soot that gets by. The more that gets by the shorter the EGR system is going to last before it sets a code. The less the longer it takes to set a code. Either way, at some point you're going to be doing a fix. I would just drive it and start planning for when that light comes on. Assuming you want to keep the car. Otherwise sell it before the code is set. Much easier to sell a car without a trouble light on.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[John Wesley Hardin]

Wow I cant even imagine. Just sounds like you are spending time and money on defective parts and equiment

 

[Roadrunr]

Whats is the fewest miles you’ve seen a dpf fail? mine was supposedly replaced by the dealer when i bought my 2012 A3 w/ 60k about a yr ago, after 15k miles I’m already seeing P0401 and P02002

 

[bowwapowwa]

I think if I needed an ambulance to get me to somewhere in an emergency, I'd want it to be reliable and not go into limp mode or light up a bunch of warning lamps on the dash. Just sayin...

Reading old threads and saw this...short story time.
This happened to an ambulance in my area within the past 4 years. They were transporting a patient and ambulance went into derate. It did not end well.
The ambulance was part of a township department that wasn't owned by the town, but was independently owned. They were going bankrupt before this incident and already had a 5 year plan to shut down. They started using the shop I worked at after that incident instead of using the same place. Just recently shut down and their area was taken over by the neighboring districts. Because of that incident I got to work on fire trucks, and ambulances for the rest of their time. Was a neat experience minus the whole how we got them as a customer part.
Getting to drive a firetruck was a bucket list item I didn't think I'd be able to cross off in my twenties without breaking multiple laws

 

[oilhammer]

Used fire trucks... even in good working condition... that have been decommissioned, are incredibly cheap. I think my wife probably lays awake at night worrying about the fact that I know this.

 

[NYHD]

Following up on the above 2013 Beetle DPF failure, the dealer is saying it failed on account of soot and that there is no reason to force a regeneration to try to repair because that only addresses a NoX issue. Thoughts ?

 

[P2B]

Following up on the above 2013 Beetle DPF failure, the dealer is saying it failed on account of soot and that there is no reason to force a regeneration to try to repair because that only addresses a NoX issue. Thoughts ?

See post #1

 

[jokila]

Reading old threads and saw this...short story time.
This happened to an ambulance in my area within the past 4 years. They were transporting a patient and ambulance went into derate. It did not end well.
The ambulance was part of a township department that wasn't owned by the town, but was independently owned. They were going bankrupt before this incident and already had a 5 year plan to shut down. They started using the shop I worked at after that incident instead of using the same place. Just recently shut down and their area was taken over by the neighboring districts. Because of that incident I got to work on fire trucks, and ambulances for the rest of their time. Was a neat experience minus the whole how we got them as a customer part.
Getting to drive a firetruck was a bucket list item I didn't think I'd be able to cross off in my twenties without breaking multiple laws

I've posted this link somewhere else in this forum but in Texas a Waller County EMS dept had a safety (having enough reliable vehicles) and affordability problem with the emissions equipment on their ambulances that the director took matters in his own hands.

Waller County EMS ambulances found with emissions defeat devices

KPRC2 Investigates has learned the Environmental Protection Agency is reviewing a whistleblower complaint about emissions defeat devices on at least four Waller County EMS ambulances.

www.click2houston.com

 

[bowwapowwa]

I don't blame them it's life or death for those in the back.

 

[oilhammer]

Someone asked me what a healthy CJAA DPF looks like, so I got a picture of one.... this is looking up the outlet, with the deNOx catalyst removed:

 

[TurboABA]

^ is that newish or does it actually have any mileage on it?

 

[oilhammer]

It is used, still working, still on the car. They get that slight orange color normally.

Here's a still working normally CKRA one for comparison:

 

[TurboABA]

 

[ddusza]

Wow I cant even imagine. Just sounds like you are spending time and money on defective parts and equiment

My 2013 CJAA started showing the CIL and throwing both codes recently. After reading through this entire thread more than once, doesn't it seem like there should be some litigation (besides Dieselgate) for the fact that DPFs are extremely poorly designed/fragile as hell, and it seems to be just a massive money maker for the manufacturers? I see OH clocking up multiple DPF replacements at a time throughout the thread and I'd guess the count is probably higher. It just seems that somewhere a carve-out needs to happen to allow deletes because the design is absolute crap, or for someone to re-design it to be more robust would be a good thing. Having to plan for a replacement to happen anywhere between 10k to 100k from the last time it was replaced is nuts. Yes, I'm probably being naive, but it just seems like the manufacturers being deceptive and somewhat predatory for something that almost seems absolutely engineered to fail. The sites with 'Original VW parts' labeled seems to be a guarantee to avoid.

 

[Genesis]

Its a wear part, should be documented as one, nobody should get away with claiming otherwise, and thus the design should be such that it can be easily replaced at modest cost.

And yes, anything else is fraudulent misrepresentation, particularly when the ECU is designed such that without it, or if it malfunctions, the engine will not run and thus the vehicle's value is destroyed.

 

[oilhammer]

Hey, they gave a pretty generous warranty (albeit often difficult to get coverage) on them. But yeah, they're mostly all out now. And while they were a problem before Dieselgate, they're much worse now.

Volkswagen wants to forget they even sold these things here, they've been counting the days until all these are out of warranty. I'm just amazed the factory that builds the DPFs can keep up. They've got to be making new ones around the clock.

 

[baldessariclan]

Joining this club as well -- 2014 JSW TDI 6M with 68k total miles -- engine threw the P2002 code a couple times in past week, and when I checked tailpipes, definitely a bit more sooty than I had seen there in the past. Currently researching repair options (local VW specialist shop -- vs. -- local VW dealership service dept. -- vs. -- DIY).

In the meantime, I've been curious about potential issues with the downstream NOx and H2S catalytic converters -- any advice or "rules of thumb" on figuring out if they're still ok, or have accumulated too much soot for re-use? Can they be cleaned out somehow, and/or or do they eventually burn out some of the accumulated soot (e.g. during the periodic high-temp regen events)?

 

[oilhammer]

The H2S cat is not monitored, and I've never known one to need replacement, which I assume the only failure mode for would be some form of restriction.

The deNOx catalyst will slowly suffer with a cracked and leaking DPF. I would not tarry on getting the car fixed, as you do not want to know what that one costs.

Usually anymore, if a deNOx catalyst fault is happening, I end up finding the thermostat has lost its mojo, and inhibiting a proper regen.

 

[baldessariclan]

The deNOx catalyst will slowly suffer with a cracked and leaking DPF. I would not tarry on getting the car fixed, as you do not want to know what that one costs.

Thank you for the quick reply and info!

Yeah, am aware the NOx cat employs some pretty $$$ metals inside, and so would prefer not to have to replace it. I noticed that when VW came up with their "fix" (i.e. as court-mandated) for these engines, think that along with the chip/computer reprogramming, they were also required to replace that NOx cat as well. On the outside, the new NOx cats look to be exactly same as old ones (to my untrained eye, at least), so my suspicion is that VW might have been skimping just a bit on the platinum, palladium, etc. levels in the original ones -- ?? (that's just a personal SWAG on all that, though - could be wrong...).

 

[P2B]

I noticed that when VW came up with their "fix" (i.e. as court-mandated) for these engines, think that along with the chip/computer reprogramming, they were also required to replace that NOx cat as well.

The CBEA/CJAA phase 1 fix was software only.

 

[oilhammer]

The CBEA/CJAA dieselgate fix was software only.

It most certainly was not.

They got a new updated larger deNOx catalyst (they are slightly bigger around), the new style EGR filter tube, and on the 2009s, since the deNOx cat was integral with the DPF, a new DPF as well.

 

[baldessariclan]

Hey, and along lines of discussion above, do you recommend cleaning and/or reusing "as-is" my existing EGR filter tube (when I'm replacing the DPF), or should I get a new one to install while working on rest of it?