CBEA/CJAA DPF info

[Nuje]

So, 2.7hr * $150/hr plus $45 brings it in under $500. Which is kinda where I figured it'd land.
$1400 is (or at least should be) criminally usurious.

 

[MrCypherr]

Even if they go on the high end at 4hrs, Its still not over $1000. Im not sure what they were quoting, but I would for sure not want to get any work done by them anymore if thats how they are quoting jobs.

 

[oilhammer]

I really wish when people get a price for something and post it here, that they'd post specifically the labor time (hours and what the per-hour rate is) and the parts they are replacing. It makes giving an opinion on the cost a much easier process. Because I know a lot of times there is something else in there that isn't being disclosed. Like I said, for me here, I almost always on the CJAAs replace that stupid plastic coolant pipe when I do a thermostat, because I've seen too many of them cracked at the o-ring groove. This adds cost to the job.

 

[gmann49ers]

Mods, please make this a sticky so I can easily point people here.

When (not if) your CBEA or CJAA car flags the DTCs P2002, P0401, and sometimes P240F, and your car will have sooty tailpipes, YOUR DPF HAS FAILED. It is BROKEN. It cannot be cleaned. It will need to be replaced.

This is the current parts list:

1K0-254-708-GX DPF pipe assembly
03G-131-547-H gasket
1K0-253-725 x2 clamps
1K0-253-115-AE gasket
1K0-253-115-AG gasket
1K0-253-115-T gasket
1K0-253-120-B EGR pipe
1K0-253-725-F clamp

There will be a core on the DPF itself, so plan on that part being refunded when you bring it back.

You will not only need to clear the DTCs, but you will need to reset the ECU's value for the new DPF. You need a suitable scan tool to do this. Then, if you need readiness to be set, you will need to drive the car for a while... sometimes over 1000 miles.

You need a 1K0-253-725-B and a 1K0-253-725 they are different clamps. One is wider than the other.

 

[oilhammer]

No you don't. You need TWO of the thicker clamps, at each end of the DPF assembly. The thinner ones are on either side of the exhaust regulating flap. I do these all the time. All...the...time...

The gaskets are different. The one at the turbo outlet has no fourth nub for indexing, all the ones down low do, because there is a rotational index nub in the outlet end of the DPF pipe so that the orientation of the center part of the exhaust stays oriented correctly and does not twist.

 

[gmann49ers]

No you don't. You need TWO of the thicker clamps, at each end of the DPF assembly. The thinner ones are on either side of the exhaust regulating flap. I do these all the time. All...the...time...

The gaskets are different. The one at the turbo outlet has no fourth nub for indexing, all the ones down low do, because there is a rotational index nub in the outlet end of the DPF pipe so that the orientation of the center part of the exhaust stays oriented correctly and does not twist.

So you need 2 -B’s for the exhaust flap? That’s where my leak is coming from.

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, whatever the skinny V-band clamp is... and the gaskets. I don't have ETKA anymore, unfortunately.

The clamps have part numbers on them.

 

[gmann49ers]

Yeah, whatever the skinny V-band clamp is... and the gaskets. I don't have ETKA anymore, unfortunately.

The clamps have part numbers on them.

I appreciate your help thanks.

 

[Tujeez]

I really wish when people get a price for something and post it here, that they'd post specifically the labor time (hours and what the per-hour rate is) and the parts they are replacing. It makes giving an opinion on the cost a much easier process. Because I know a lot of times there is something else in there that isn't being disclosed. Like I said, for me here, I almost always on the CJAAs replace that stupid plastic coolant pipe when I do a thermostat, because I've seen too many of them cracked at the o-ring groove. This adds cost to the job.

I got some numbers for you.

This is on a CJAA @ 138K.
I just recently paid to have my heater core replaced at a reputable (yet pricey) shop in the San Diego area.
$1531 out the door.
$169x2 - diagnostic fees to troubleshoot 2 issues. No heat and oil leak.

$246-heater core (3CO819031A)
$25-Heater core O ring Kit (3CO898380)
$38x2-2 gallonsG13 Coolant (G013A8J1G)
$153-Coolant flush (labor)
$659-heater core remove and replace (labor)

They also discovered my thermostat was stuck open and they quoted me $822. I did it myself this past weekend.

I felt it was steep, but I REALLY didn’t want to wrestle with the coolant pipes in the drivers footwell.

Question for you:
My DPF is cracked so I need to replace that. They quoted me $2300 out the door. Is replacing the DPF possible on jackstands with hand tools? Because that’s all I’ve got. Lol. Thinking of using a transmission jack to support the subframe to give me enough room to work with.

 

[MrCypherr]

Its doable. People have done it by cutting the DPF in half so its easier to get out while doing deletes. May have an issue getting the new one in but if you lower the subframe you may have enough room getting it back in. One thing I would recommend doing is undoing the steering column bolt where the pedals are behind the plastic cover. They way you can lower the subframe more, and not worry about putting stress on that. Also, mark with white out or a marker where the subframe sits on the body, where you take the 6 subframe bolts out. That way you can line the frame back up and it would be very close or in the same spot where it was taken out.

 

[gmann49ers]

I got some numbers for you.

This is on a CJAA @ 138K.
I just recently paid to have my heater core replaced at a reputable (yet pricey) shop in the San Diego area.
$1531 out the door.
$169x2 - diagnostic fees to troubleshoot 2 issues. No heat and oil leak.

$246-heater core (3CO819031A)
$25-Heater core O ring Kit (3CO898380)
$38x2-2 gallonsG13 Coolant (G013A8J1G)
$153-Coolant flush (labor)
$659-heater core remove and replace (labor)

They also discovered my thermostat was stuck open and they quoted me $822. I did it myself this past weekend.

I felt it was steep, but I REALLY didn’t want to wrestle with the coolant pipes in the drivers footwell.

Question for you:
My DPF is cracked so I need to replace that. They quoted me $2300 out the door. Is replacing the DPF possible on jackstands with hand tools? Because that’s all I’ve got. Lol. Thinking of using a transmission jack to support the subframe to give me enough room to work with.

I think $2300 is a great price to get your DPF done. I was quoted over $4,000 for mine but found a VW tech willing to do it as a side job. The total cost was $2,200 parts and labor. Just so you know. Replace all the v clamps cause I didn’t and had to later. They are a one time use item regardless what others tell you. Also if you’re replacing your DPF DO NOT CUT IT! There is a $700 core charge you have to pay if you buy it yourself. Also shop around dealerships in your area for the best price on a DPF. Mine cost $1,150 but some places charged $1,700. Do your research first.

 

[T1MMBOJONES]

I think if I needed an ambulance to get me to somewhere in an emergency, I'd want it to be reliable and not go into limp mode or light up a bunch of warning lamps on the dash. Just sayin...

We have a customer, an electrician, who uses an older E350 ambulance repurposed as his mobile shop and rolling toolbox. Old IDI non-turbo 7.3L. Reliable as the sun, we just put a new set of tires on it.

i have a 7.3l PSD E350 myself, bought it with 80,000 miles ten years ago, currently has 250,000 miles, its hands down the best vehicle ive ever owned. its not driven too often anymore but its always ready to work. took it to get some plywood yesterday and my girlfriend exclaimed "this thing will run forever" people flock to it whenever it fires up, still brings a smile to my face everytime. but 17mpg vs 40 speaks for itself....

 

[pedroYUL]

I presume the right side axle needs disconnecting, if not complete removal. What else besides lowering the subframe to get the DPF out in one piece?

Assume all fasteners will fight? Sensors will be fused to threads? I want to try and keep my expectations under control, so that my blood pressure stays under control too.

 

[Nuje]

I did my first DPF removal - out of a 2011 Golf - a couple months ago, and was quite surprised that one little squirt of rust penetrant (WD40 bespoke rust penetrant surprisingly effective - and came with a perma-attached straw), and everything came off and out pretty easily. Compared to the Mk4 cars I'm usually working on, everything was "really - it loosened? Didn't break / strip...?!"

(Of course, west coast car, so maybe your luck in the the salt beds of Michigan will be different, but it was overall not too bad; if I had more time and wanted to keep it intact, I could see the path to getting it out intact pretty easily.)

 

[Genesis]

I just had a friend who had both of those codes trip right after a fuel pump detonation.

The fuel system was replaced (just a hair) under warranty. This is on an Audi but same engine -- and the thing is, the DPF load numbers in VCDS are acceptable. I was expecting to see the DPF numbers well into the "unacceptable, cannot regen" range indicating the DPF was dead -- but they were not.

I cleared the codes and told her to get out on the highway and get it good and hot, in that it MIGHT be related to the fuel pump failure and if it is, it won't come back -- yet.

We'll see.

 

[oilhammer]

You cannot go by the ash load level numbers, because when the DPF cracks, they are pretty much meaningless. I never bother to check those anymore. It's never (well, almost never) a question of the DPF being "full" on these. And it has nothing at all to do with the fuel pump.

 

[Genesis]

Except the temporal association, which was exact (the freeze frame mileage when it tripped.) The car is now ~4k further down the odometer (was simply driven with the light on; I'm the first one they came across with VCDS) - we'll see if it comes back. If its actually hosed clearing the code won't do anything and shortly it will return.

I wouldn't have just cleared it EXCEPT for the temporal association with the fuel pump failure. I did note that if it comes back then its definitely real and the DPF is done.

On mileage it is also due for a timing belt kit.... I issued the usual strenuous warning about what happens if you roll those dice and come up snake eyes.....

(And given the 4k miles since the light turned on, and the overdue belt -- and not being my car -- I ain't gonna work on it. Scan it yes, but actually wrench on it? Uh, no, and I don't have the correct lock tools for that timing belt anyway.)

 

[wonneber]

its taboo because its illegal . the EPA is watching . and they have put millions of dollars into enforcement. and yet all oiver the forums and facebook people are calling out their tuners and suppliers . and announcing they have deleted cars . its a bad bad deal. thgere will be repercussions in the future .

A while ago I read on line the EPA is less worried about device removal.
Wish I kept the link.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

A while ago I read on line the EPA is less worried about device removal.
Wish I kept the link.

Didn't see this coming - EPA shift

https://www.thedrive.com/news/emissions-defeat-devices-no-longer-a-top-priority-for-epa?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spot_im_redirect_source=pitc&spot_im_comment_id=sp_JjtET6Vo_article$6256480_c_2UMgamqzcQd3D8jhKE6ToKaRJVv&spot_im_highlight_immediate=true

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[MrCypherr]

Didnt Cummins just get hit for something about defeat devices or something like that though?

 

[T1MMBOJONES]

navistar got fined in 2021 for a certain engine they offered back in 2010. cummins may have had some lawsuits aswell and if they were still paying attention to sales from over a decade ago im sure others will surface...

 

[MrCypherr]

2024 Cummins Inc. Vehicle Emission Control Violations Settlement | US EPA

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Justice, with the state of California, reached a settlement agreement with Cummins, Inc. for vehicle emission control violations under the Clean Air Act that includes a $1.675 civil penalty.

www.epa.gov

 

[gmcjetpilot]

New member of the likely cracked DPF club.

Codes
P2002 Particulate trap efficiency low intermittent
P0401 EGR insufficient flow intermittent

QUESTION SAFE TO GO ON 1400 MILE TRIP NEXT WEEK?

 

[oilhammer]

Just know that it is slowly but surely pushing a bunch of soot into the deNOx catalyst, so when you get back, you may find you'll also need that part, too. So another ~$2500....

 

[ThomasTheSchoolie]

Mods, please make this a sticky so I can easily point people here.

When (not if) your CBEA or CJAA car flags the DTCs P2002, P0401, and sometimes P240F, and your car will have sooty tailpipes, YOUR DPF HAS FAILED. It is BROKEN. It cannot be cleaned. It will need to be replaced.

This is the current parts list:

1K0-254-708-GX DPF pipe assembly
03G-131-547-H gasket
1K0-253-725 x2 clamps
1K0-253-115-AE gasket
1K0-253-115-AG gasket
1K0-253-115-T gasket
1K0-253-120-B EGR pipe
1K0-253-725-F clamp

There will be a core on the DPF itself, so plan on that part being refunded when you bring it back.

You will not only need to clear the DTCs, but you will need to reset the ECU's value for the new DPF. You need a suitable scan tool to do this. Then, if you need readiness to be set, you will need to drive the car for a while... sometimes over 1000 miles.

This is very helpful, thank you. Is FCP the go to in your opinion?

 

[MrCypherr]

Id figure as long as the parts are OEM, anywhere you can grab them would be okay.

 

[oilhammer]

Except that there is a core charge on the DPF, so I'd just go to the local dealer. No shipping involved, and you can just hand them your old one if you like right then and there.

 

[Danjam]

Mods, please make this a sticky so I can easily point people here.

When (not if) your CBEA or CJAA car flags the DTCs P2002, P0401, and sometimes P240F, and your car will have sooty tailpipes, YOUR DPF HAS FAILED. It is BROKEN. It cannot be cleaned. It will need to be replaced.

This is the current parts list:

1K0-254-708-GX DPF pipe assembly
03G-131-547-H gasket
1K0-253-725 x2 clamps
1K0-253-115-AE gasket
1K0-253-115-AG gasket
1K0-253-115-T gasket
1K0-253-120-B EGR pipe
1K0-253-725-F clamp

There will be a core on the DPF itself, so plan on that part being refunded when you bring it back.

You will not only need to clear the DTCs, but you will need to reset the ECU's value for the new DPF. You need a suitable scan tool to do this. Then, if you need readiness to be set, you will need to drive the car for a while... sometimes over 1000 miles.

I’m only getting P0401. Potential issues with dpf temp sensor? Could that throw that code?

 

[MrCypherr]

As long as its either P2002 or P0401, it will all need the DPF replaced. That code usually pops up first

 

[oilhammer]

So many people are in denial over these things, LOL.

Here's how it goes. The DPF cracks, internally, meaning the substrate INSIDE of the housing is physically broken. When this happens, soot (the "black" visible stuff that diesels can emit) goes right past this internal regenerative filter, and continues all the way out the tail pipe. Normally, the post-DPF exhaust is completely clean, completely devoid of any soot. The inside of the pipe will be as clean as it can possibly be, it'll still look like new steel inside. An exhaust temp sensor, or lambda sensor, or a NOx sensor (where equipped... the CJAA doesn't have one of those) will literally look like you just removed it from a box brand new even after being directly in the exhaust pipes. (see the pics in post #68 further down). DPFs work that well. When they work.

When they crack, and this soot gets past, not only does it coat everything downstream with a layer of jet black, it also gets into the low pressure EGR plumbing, which by design takes its feed from AFTER the DPF, because it should be clean. It then goes through a small tube, which has a filter inside of it, which is technically a spark arrestor as there could be an errant burnt bit of ash after the DPF regen process that you wouldn't want getting drawn into the air inlet of the turbo.

When the DPF cracks, the first thing that most people will notice is the MIL comes on, with a P0401 'EGR insufficient flow'. That's because that soot that has found its way past to places it was never intended to be has clogged that little EGR tube up. Then, after a while, the P2002 'DPF efficiency' comes up, because the ECU is not seeing the pressure differential change before/during/after the DPF regen process because its insides are BROKEN.

What we've found, because those like me who see this constantly, is that there is no need to go pulling that EGR tube off to check for soot... because guess where else there'll be soot that there shouldn't be? The TAIL PIPES. Easy peasy diagnosis.

And FWIW, I thoroughly clean the tail pipes' insides after a new DPF install and test drive, so that the next time I'll know...and I have had a few that have had another DPF needed. You drive them enough, you'll need more than one. This is why deletes get so popular.