Car so cold....any suggestions??

[MCR]

The recirc question is really not a gripe, although, yes, sometimes I do want to blow recirculated air on the windshield. Mostly in the summer, though. What about a humid summer day driving through smoke, or the stink near a landfill? That outside humid air can make it worse, especially if the AC isn't working well because you're stopped in a traffic jam. The AC can handle the defrost fine without outside air. Better even.

The real annoyance is the inability to find a single position that suits me. I have to futz with the thing all the time. (Although the 45 degrees left position is the best I've found so far.)

This is my first year of owning a car other than a Ford. (Unfortunately, my first VW was totalled earlier this year, so I'm on my second VW.) With all the Fords I've had, I leave them on defrost+floor, and then move the hot-cold selector typically in a range of two or three clicks (in the winter)---It's like an on-off switch between two clicks. The VW hot-cold has a wide range of comfortable settings, which to me implies good engineering. (Although, believe it or not, the Ford one-click thing is completely comfortable to me once I figure out the right spot.) The VW defrost/floor/etc selector, though, I just find irritating.

 

[Joe_Meehan]

If you A/C does not work in traffic or a stop light, you should have it checked.

 

[spiceredwagon]

Every one overlooked a key part of blubug06 question "It's all city driving, stop and go." TDI engines do not maintain operating temperature when idling at 0°F or less. No need to change the thermostat. Try a 1000W power inverter running a in car eletric heater. This could be a challenge to hook up.
The dc cables need to be #6.

 

[scooperhsd]

Actually - a Webasto or Espar would probably help her out the most - if you can get them to fit.

 

[spiceredwagon]

Webasto or Espar are nice products but way over priced. If they charged half the current price I would get one. Last saw Espar for $1200.00 cdn.

 

[booty]

Cold Beetle

I've been driving mine for 4 winters now in temps as low as -53F. Get some duct tape and tape the grill screen completely closed. This stops cold air from getting into the engine compartment and keeps warm air in. My tank heater will heat the coolant to about 80F on a -30F day. I let it idle 10 min and drive it. In around town driving 45mph and below it will never get hot when it is -30F or so but it will get warm enough to not freeze. A five mile trip at at 60mph will heat it right up and the engine and interior will be toasty. But once back in town it will cool to about 160F on the Scanguage.
Bottom line is seal the engine compartment and wear a good coat and gloves......

 

[MCR]

I've been searching for threads about closing the radiator openings or otherwise blocking the radiator flow. This is one of the threads I found tonight on the topic of "winter fronts":

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=126834

I'm thinking of just making something, but these VW accessories (for Mk4---one for Jetta, one for Golf) actually seem somewhat reasonably priced.

I wonder how careful you have to be to avoid overheating on warmer days. Does anyone know how the gauge reacts? I've never seen mine above 190F.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I've always wondered about this. The thermostat is set to open at 87C. So it's not circulating coolant from the radiator through the engine unless the coolant in the engine has reached 87C. So explain to me how a winter front helps speed warm-up, when the coolant isn't even going through the radiator at that point?

I have no complaints about warm-up time. I do my best to get the car on boost and keep it there. However, I'm only a mile from the freeway and there aren't any traffic signals betwee here and there.

 

[Bob_Fout]

I've always wondered about this. The thermostat is set to open at 87C. So it's not circulating coolant from the radiator through the engine unless the coolant in the engine has reached 87C. So explain to me how a winter front helps speed warm-up, when the coolant isn't even going through the radiator at that point?

I have no complaints about warm-up time. I do my best to get the car on boost and keep it there. However, I'm only a mile from the freeway and there aren't any traffic signals betwee here and there.

Air still moves around the engine. Goes through the rad.

 

[canbluegolf]

I've always wondered about this. The thermostat is set to open at 87C. So it's not circulating coolant from the radiator through the engine unless the coolant in the engine has reached 87C. So explain to me how a winter front helps speed warm-up, when the coolant isn't even going through the radiator at that point?

As already mentioned, blocking off *all* the lower front grill areas is the way to go to keep the heat inside when its really cold out (< 0f). Not only does it keep the engine warmer but also the air intake temperature is higher, the SGII reports about 10f warmer if you have the intercooler area completely blocked off. When it warms up outside (>5f) or if I'm doing a long highway drive I just pull out two of the foam insulation pieces, one from the center grill and one from intercooler grill, only takes a few seconds.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but does IAT affect warm-up time or overall engine temperature? And does air circulation in the engine compartment make a significant difference in warm up time? Does anyone see a difference between having the engine cover on or off? Just asking. It seems that if blocking off air intakes was an important thing to do it would be designed into the car. After all, it does get cold in Germany. And it's hard for us to tell without ancillary gauges because of how the temperature gauge is damped (dampened?).

 

[booty]

Cold air circulating in the engine compartment is similar to wind chill factor for people. Go out in 0F with no wind and compare that to 0F and with 25 mph wind. The wind will cool you or an engine off very quickly. Some very old cars used to have shutters that you could close to keep the air from flowing on the engine and open once the engine obtained normal operating temperature. My Beetle has never overheated even at 75mph on a 40F with the grill blocked.
All my gas vehicles have the radiator air blocked about 80% with diesels 100% and will remain that way until temperatures are consistantly above freezing. The good news is that if you are cold in your TDI that is because it is burning very little fuel and therefore producing very little heat which is normally a wasted by product.

 

[wrenchman30]

blocking off the air flow thru the radiator stops the radiator from working and allows them to heat up because there thermostat isnt sealling off. i have posted how to check it on other threads. drive your car. pull over. check the top radiator hose. carefully it could be hot. if it is warm to any degree your thermostat is bypassing. if it is cold your thermostat is working correctly. the diesel engine will heat up when driving it. extended idle periods they will cool down. extended period should be interpided as hour or more. even with the heater on engines produce excess heat that is drawn into the cooling system.

 

[canbluegolf]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but does IAT affect warm-up time or overall engine temperature? And does air circulation in the engine compartment make a significant difference in warm up time? Does anyone see a difference between having the engine cover on or off?

The answer to all of your questions above is yes ... it does make a noticeable difference. I can't give you any hard stats on how much faster it heats up but every little bit helps. I think most people have seen first hand how much turning up the fan to 3 or 4 can quickly cool down the engine in the city. Given that little cooling effect has an impact then certainly keeping the engine compartment warmer and the IAT higher must provide at least some benefit. Add to that, it only costs about $1 for the pipe foam insulation.

 

[Joe_Meehan]

... if it is warm to any degree your thermostat is bypassing.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that most of not all thermostats do a small amount of bypassing intentionally. I believe they have a small hole drilled in them. As I understand it this is necessary so they can get true samples of the engine temperature and open when needed, otherwise the engine could overheat without the thermostat knowing it.

 

[DanEboy]

Joe, you beat me to it!
You gotta have some amount of bypass to keep coolant moving around cylinder bores in the block otherwise you get pockets of steam forming.
And I'd say change the thermostat. At 30*F any driving should get you up to normal operating temp!

 

[whitedog]

extended idle periods they will cool down. extended period should be interpided as hour or more.

An hour? Heck, I have watched the Jetta's temp drop down to the first mark while idling for five minutes in single (F) digit temperature.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Joe, you beat me to it!
You gotta have some amount of bypass to keep coolant moving around cylinder bores in the block otherwise you get pockets of steam forming.
And I'd say change the thermostat. At 30*F any driving should get you up to normal operating temp!

Need to qualify that with for how long, what kind of driving, and where the heater/fan/recirc is set.

Before I put my winter front on, it was common to not get to 190*F on the dash (which is really 160*F and up) during my 7 mile, 30 to 50 MPH, with 12 stop lights commute if the fan was on anything other than 1.

 

[wrenchman30]

no a thermostat doesnt have built in bypassing. you will not get steam anywhere in the engine. you have a radiator cap. this cap has a pressure rating. each pound of pressure raises the boiling point of coolant three degrees. 15 pound cap 45 degress. 212 plus 45=267 degrees. if you had 267 degree coolant you would have heat in your cabin air. the coolant is cycled from the engine to the heater core round and round. you get heat in the cabin first. if you have no heat and the upper radiator hose is warm on a cold day your loosing your heat to the radiator thru the thermostat bypassing.

 

[Joe_Meehan]

no a thermostat doesnt have built in bypassing. ...

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostat

Most thermostats have a small bypass hole to vent any gas that might get into the system (e.g., air introduced during coolant replacement), this small bypass hole is under normal circumstances used to have a small flow when the thermostat is still closed. Without this flow it would be impossible for the thermostat to react correctly on the heating up water...

 

[wrenchman30]

air bleed hole is not a bypass hole

Most thermostats have a small bypass hole to vent any gas that might get into the system (e.g., air introduced during coolant replacement), this small bypass hole is under normal circumstances used to have a small flow when the thermostat is still closed. Without this flow it would be impossible for the thermostat to react correctly on the heating up water... if you think your engine will stay cool with this hole weld up your thermostat and remember to pull over and shut it off before you roast the cylinder walls. the purpuse of the air bleed hole is to let the air go into the highest point of the cooling system. the bimetal spring cannot be heated if it is in air and open correctly. if you have a passat car look for twisted heater hoses there is a tsb showing the location.

 

[giuseppe]

I had the same problem this morning. Temps were in the 10F - 15F range and the car did not heat up well at all, which was strange because the Tdi heater was plugged in all night, and the glow plug light switched off immediately as it normally does when plugged in. Anyway, the roads were really snowy and icy, so I really couldn't go any more than 30 mph, but by the time i made it the 10 miles to work, the coolant temp was at the bottom of the gauge and just warm to the touch. Is this normal? I just don't remember this happening.

 

[canbluegolf]

Sounds like you caught the tdiheater at the end of its off cycle ... sure wish there was a simple low flow electric pump we could add to keep the coolant moving.

After 10 miles of going 30 mph, providing you're not stopping much, you should have had more heat than that ... do you have the front grill blocked off?

 

[bf1967]

sure wish there was a simple low flow electric pump we could add to keep the coolant moving.

If your TDI heater is the lowest point in the cooling system, you shouldn't need a pump, you'll get a convective effect, in that the heated coolant will rise and the colder coolant will drop to the heater.

 

[DPM]

Canblue, you could buy the pump for a Webasto setup (or the very similar auxiliary pump that was used in VR6s or 1.8Ts?)

 

[canbluegolf]

bf1967, ya the heater works ok in the normal mounting position, I have no real issue with it, but I wonder how much better it would work with some more flow.

DPM, does Webasto sell a separate pump? In any case, I'd bet the cost will be way up there with the Webasto name on it.

 

[DPM]

Yes, the earlier webasto and Espar units had a remotely-sited waterpump. They tend to sell for around £30 on ebay.co.uk

Another option might be a small water-cooling pump for a PC; a small pump (like a Laing D4 or similar) in parallel with a larger checkvalve- so there's no restriction to pumped flow from the engine...

 

[vwtom]

Are you sure your water pump is operating properly? This just happened to me in my 2004 Passat.

 

[bf1967]

bf1967, ya the heater works ok in the normal mounting position, I have no real issue with it, but I wonder how much better it would work with some more flow.

It probably would work better, but then again it's another moving part to break. There's already so many now, why add another .

 

[red golf tdi]

I don't recall the thermostat in my TDI ever opening during the winter months.....my lower radiator hose is always cold.