Softrockrenegade
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Location
- Howellbama, NJ
- TDI
- None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
Here's my hpfp ... My car is a 2011 golf built on 6/10
Canadian HPFP failure !!
- Thread starter BrokenTDI
- Start date
emdeeaitch
Veteran Member
You need to post images in the thread no larger than 800 pixels. Your giant image is breaking the page format and making everything too wide to read. It is definitely a good thing to have larger image available, but you should set it to open in another window instead of putting it directly in the thread.In the interest of optimism, maybe VW is doing the block of new pumps, because they do have a new pump that doesn't take out whole fuel systems, and as usual, are keeping us in the dark... check out the thread on that Delphi pump for the 1.3TDI and the pictures in the link, where the roller follower is rectangular, not round, and has been around since, oh, 2000, and designed in conjunction with VW... kind of makes you wonder how much Vw saved on that design going with a round follower with Bosch, vs, a rectangular or square roller follower with Delphi? Or maybe it's turning out to be a false savings?
Grab that part number off of that Delphi tag in the photo, and someone needs to make some phone calls or emails.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3565999&postcount=14
http://delphi.com/about/news/media/pressReleases/pr_2010_05_11_001/
Is that Delphi pump compatible or interchangeable with the Bosch pump? Hmmmm? I wonder? Someone with an interest and inside connections should contact Delphi and run with this.
oxford_guy
Veteran Member
Yeah, environmentalists invented planned obsolesce, consumerism, and rapid product cycles. To think people think concern with the environment is what defines environmentalism. My gasoline car has parts that can't be purchased new anymore. I think Greenpeace and the ACLU have something to do with that.Niner said:
KITEWAGON
Veteran Member
That's right its environmentalists and socialists fault that its hard to get a new HPFP. Good one. You forgot to blame unions thugs and Obama.
Well, if that's how you feel, thanks for adding that.
I think VW has something going on, and that they were half a step ahead of NHSTA, that they will only execute their backup plan with the newer designed pump if forced to by NHSTA. I am really quite interested in what engineering over at NHSTA finds, and when they will announce their findings. The new VW/ Delphi designed pump sure looks like VW knew they had a problem on their hands in 2009, when they started work with Delphi on a new pump design that gets rid of 2 flaws, an aluminum bore with a steel piston running in it, and a cam roller, cam roller shoe, and piston that can get out of alignment with the cam, with attendant failures indicating that it did indeed get 90 degrees out of alignment, and flat spotting the roller by the cam, with attendant shredded aluminum and steel everywhere in the fuel system. The aluminum bore was wearing out, the swarf left in fuel tanks and fuel filters was not being attracted to magnetic forces, so it wasn't iron or steel based swarf.
The new pump design addresses the rotation with the square bore for the follower, and the bore appears to be a steel sleeve pressed in, with a cam follower shoe another black, inert material, in the design. So, no aluminum bore contact, and no out of alignment roller. My only concern is how long that black shoe will last in the pressed in steel rectangular bore it runs in with 520 micron fuel. 300, 000 miles? I hope so. Roller failures will be significantly less, that is a given. Aluminum swarf will be less to non existent also.
This development is good news. I'm not ready to congratulate VW until this becomes a proven design and VW bolts a 4 cylinder variant on my car for at minimum free parts (I'll pay the labor).
Given the innovation that has characterized Bosch for so many years of it's existence it's hard to imagine this kind of stumble unless someone (VW) was standing behind them on the staircase pushing and shoving.
Most aspects of marketing are very sensitive to timing. Fuel pricing was climbing when VW debuted the new CR's. Most consumers had a clear recollection of the sticker shock at the pump - which we've pretty much adjusted to at this point. If VW didn't push out the CR TDI when they did, they would not have the double digit sales gains they've gotten over the last couple years.
If VW does not do something to take care of existing customers, they will lose a fair portion of the market share they've gained. [Unless they are are betting existing owners will trade our Bosch pumped vehicles for new ones with Delphi pumps]. You cannot make a silk purse out of a cows ear. VW has clearly shown over the last year or so that the customer does not come first. I'm a relative nubie to VW (since I owned a 1967 in 1974). A fair read though of these forums shows that VW has not been a decent steward of customer interests.
I remember my dad made a living off the #3 cylinder exhaust valve failures on the air cooled engines due to the placement of the oil cooler. It took several years of that before VW (or an after market producer) developed the sodium filled exhaust valves to improve heat transfer. I think in my 67 VW had already revised the design and moved the oil cooler.
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dweisel
Top Post Dawg
You're forgetting about "cash for clunkers" and the "clean diesel" tax incentives that prompted many to buy new cars.
Yep all part of it I guess. The next move is VW's to make as far as I'm concerned.
BrokenTDI
Veteran Member
I wish that there was some time frame on this issue. My car sits dead in my garage. I won't tear into it until all of the parts are sitting in my hands. I have almost everything except the HPFP. With that being the most important part of this repair, how long do I wait?
On a side note I have filed a BBB complaint, the first small shot in this battle. Alot more is coming.
On a side note I have filed a BBB complaint, the first small shot in this battle. Alot more is coming.
Here is a thought, anyone that has had a failure that has opened a compliant with NHSTA, should get info on the new pump design and send it to NHSTA and just mention the changes between the two. Maybe something will click with some at NHSTA.
Elfnmagik
Veteran Member
That's what I was thinking. Also to those who have been questioning whether the pump is ready for duty use in more robust applications, it appears it was designed as such and is ready off the shelf since the cam has a double lobe design with the ability to utilize pumping at higher rates. To me it looks as if this whole move/redesign is a solution to the exact problems that have surfaced with the Bosch pump. Quite telling and condeming IMO, but the truth was gonna surface somehow. VW is in the damage control phase now and they will unavoidably take some lumps, but they will play however to reduce their bottom line.
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Plus 3 Golfer
Veteran Member
A new / different pump is a potential solution that VW could implement for a safety or non-safety issue but doesn't substantiate that there is a safety defect in the current pump. VW has already indicated that revisions to the HPFP make it more robust with respect to poor quality diesel fuel. So, VW could issue a voluntary recall or NHTSA could deem the current HPFP in MY 2009 and 2010 a safety defect and VW then agrees to a recall. But if NHTSA deems the issue to be a safety defect and VW does not agree, the process to ultimately determine whether VW has to correct the defect is a long drawn out process. We could be looking at years.
NHTSA intends to complete all EAs in one year from start which IIRC was in Feb. 2011 for EA11003. IHMO, our best bet is that VW issues a voluntary recall. Maybe that's why there's a hold on HPFPs. I would think that the last thing VW wants is NHSTA to issue a finding that the current HPFP is a safety issue and that VW doesn't want to correct the issue. It's a lot better press for VW to voluntarily issue a recall and not fight the NHTSA in a long drawn out process.
Like I said in another post, I was told by NHTSA to watch for another IR to VW shortly. This may give some indication as to the direction of the analysis.
Softrockrenegade
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Location
- Howellbama, NJ
- TDI
- None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
I sent an email to Delphi last night about the pump vw is using in the polo, asking if it will fit the 2.0 cr engines and this was their response . Thought some here may be interested !
Hi Ryan,
Thank you for your email. *I would suggest that the best approach is to work directly with your dealer to address the pump concerns. *The Delphi pump is not an appropriate replacement in this instance.
Thank you!
Lynn
Hi Ryan,
Thank you for your email. *I would suggest that the best approach is to work directly with your dealer to address the pump concerns. *The Delphi pump is not an appropriate replacement in this instance.
Thank you!
Lynn
Elfnmagik
Veteran Member
I wouldn't have expected them to indicate that it would be or anything even close to that notion. Things will be kept close to the vest.
Elfnmagik
Veteran Member
Odds are it's just a matter of time until someone is hurt in an accident due to failure, then the stakes will be raised and the pot up for grabs.
TDIagain
Member
It would be nice just to know that there is a reliable fix out there. Right now i am going to take a gamble buying a 2012 Golf TDI. My 2000 Golf TDI have treated me wonderfully throughout the years and it seems all that`s holding back the MKVI`s is the unknown of the HPFP. Other than that, they seem to be awesome cars, especially when i test drove one.
Let`s hope soon there will be a permanent fix to this poor design.
Let`s hope soon there will be a permanent fix to this poor design.
BrokenTDI
Veteran Member
I have just spoken to my dealer and he has told me that the pump # 03L-130-851-AX has been cleared for shipment from Germany. I should recieve it later next week. Here we go!
eloreno
Well-known member
Where did you get this part #? What cars are they using this pump in?
N2UADTDI
Veteran Member
Great news on your new pump.
Did you ever consider getting the old pump bored and sleeved? Make a new piston and follower/roller?
Did you ever consider getting the old pump bored and sleeved? Make a new piston and follower/roller?
BrokenTDI
Veteran Member
I did give that a tought , but I am planing to sell the car once it is fixed. So I wanted the new owner to have the original pump in their car.
BrokenTDI
Veteran Member
I got that pump number from the parts sheet that the dealer gave me when I took it to them. Its different from what I have in the car but I will be taking the new one apart when I get it to see what the difference is.
eloreno
Well-known member
That is excellent. I look forward to it.
gui_from_nice
Active member
Are you sure it is a good idea ?
You already spent the money for the worse repair even possible on this model. If it is a new pump with no factory problem, I'm pretty sure you should keep your car running.
You are going to lose a lot of money by trading it
A guy on this thread also got the same HPFP as BrokenTDI.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=284441&page=68
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=284441&page=68
emdeeaitch
Veteran Member
If you're referring to my post, I was just reposting BrokenTDI's number into that thread for common reference.
emdeeaitch
Veteran Member
BrokenTDI -
So does that mean you have been given both that number and 03L-130-785-A within the last week or so?
... meaning that in total we have three completely different part numbers in circulation? (not counting possible X suffix and theoretical B,C,D suffix that seems to be implied but not stamped on anything)
Harvieux
Vendor , w/Business number
And you forgot to blame G.W. Bush for the whole kit and caboodle, eh?
Later!BrokenTDI
Veteran Member
As for keeping the car after it is fixed. I would love to. But I can't trust this design any further than I can throw it. It could last me for years, or it could fail in the first week. It does hurt how much I am going to loose on this thing , but the first time I want to drive it out of cell range I will take my other car. So what is the use in keeping it.