Can the 2016 wagon with DSG tow?

solman1

Well-known member
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Feb 8, 2014
Location
New Jersey
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14 Jetta TDI-DSG-Prem.
Hello all,
I tried the VW website but cannot find any info on trailer towing. I am thinking of the new sportwagon with the 1.8 gas engine as right for my needs. I need to be able to tow a utility type trailer 1500 LBS max. I know the TDI with DSG trans as in my 2014 JETTA was not trailer rated by the manufacturer. I was wondering if the restriction was due to the TDI engine or was it the DSG transmission that imposed the trailer restriction. I thought of a manual trans but they seem far and few between here in NJ. Not great in the traffic we get around here and prefer the automatic I think. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
 

mkane

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N.CA
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GSW SEL 6spd
I know a fella who tows with his GTI w/dsg. Single rail motorcycle trailer with a 400lb bike+ tool & gear.
 

fxk

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Vast wilderness between DC and Baltimore
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2014 Sportwagen TDI
Of course it can tow, but you may void your warranty on suspension, brakes, transmission.
This. ^^^^

Not that it is not capable, but VWUSA says no even though EU tows with basically the same vehicle. Finding anything other than a class 1 hitch here in the states will be difficult if not impossible. You could go with a Westfalia or Bosal from Europe, but shipping will be hateful.

I think there's a liability thing here, and may have some emissions/EPA concerns, as the vehicles need to be tested, and additional testing with a load would cost VW more, and they just do not want to bother, regardless. Remember, VW considers the US a secondary market, and really does not give full attention to their market shares in the states.

The EU hitches will be swan neck, (personally I think superior, but I'm not the DOT) not the square receiver that is current in the states, and will be a 50mm ball. I believe the differences will be inconsequential from a functional standpoint, but they are not DOT approved.

All that means that if you are in an accident with the not-DOT approved hitch while towing, the insurance company will most likely balk at any type of payout leaving you in very dangerous territory.

Reality, you're SOL.

frank
 
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skramer

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Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Location
Viera, FL
TDI
2015 GSW SE 6MT
Hello all,
I tried the VW website but cannot find any info on trailer towing. I am thinking of the new sportwagon with the 1.8 gas engine as right for my needs. I need to be able to tow a utility type trailer 1500 LBS max. I know the TDI with DSG trans as in my 2014 JETTA was not trailer rated by the manufacturer. I was wondering if the restriction was due to the TDI engine or was it the DSG transmission that imposed the trailer restriction. I thought of a manual trans but they seem far and few between here in NJ. Not great in the traffic we get around here and prefer the automatic I think. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
The 1.8 TSI does not use a DSG setup, the manual states towing has not been evaluated, but as well states no towing with TDI-DSG combo. For the weights you are talking about you are fine, if you wanted to tow more, I would look for a v60 which is rated for 3300
 

jason_

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Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
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2015 s wagon dsg
My 1ton temp sensor gave up on the road w loaded triaxle w/10k#.

Truck, trailer and load was over 21k#.

Hitched to the tdi 6sp and away I went.

Odd trying to get rolling, and it was fun pouring the juice and boost, and making the front tires break loose in 2nd without clutch.

10 mile trip.



Other then brakes, I don't see why it would hurt anything else with a straight stick. Dsg might be in the same boat.

Regardless

Towing does not increase hp
Towing does not increase torque.
Towing does not increase weight on wheel bearings.

Therefor Towing will not damage cv shaft, or make the clutch slip more. Only exception to this is from a dead standstill.

Go drag a trailer, use common sense, and I think you'll be fine. Of course vw will say no.

Sent from my s-off'ed m7 with cm11!
 

nayr

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Colorado
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2014 Audi Q7
I tow 1500lbs with a Westy hitch so easy in my 6MT I cant really see the DSG having an issue with it.. You might want to downshift out of top gear before you start a steep incline if your really loaded, but they have paddles right? I engine brake as much as possible in the mountains to help keep my brakes from overheating when I have my trailer hooked up, no idea if the DSG would like doing that though, dunno why not.. You can work around that by just putting electronic brakes on your trailer.

The DSG is stout enough with a tune as they seem to support quite a few modifications, so tow in peace my friend.
 
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redbarron55

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Navarre, FL.
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2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I wish I knew why VW chooses to degrade towing specifications in the US. Perhaps it is the rear bumper 3 mph protection with the solid bar behind the bumper cover.
Perhaps it is the worry about warranty towing.
The warranty is longer in the US than many other countries.
Perhaps it is the need for the testing and liability etc.
I wish I knew.
The Euro ratings are similar to the SAE ratings and many manufacturers test their cars towing trailers in the US since they have access to the Davis dam climb that is used.
I know that Volvo meets the specs and use the US for testing.
Perhaps with the embarrassment of the current scandal VW will rate their cars for towing like in the UK and Euro zone to increase sales.
They seem to rate their "trucks" like the Tiguan and Touareg and provide the necessary trailer modules to hook them into the car's computers like in Europe.
The Golfs and Jettas not so much.
They do, however, call out the proper mounting for the hitch in the car owner's manual.
 

nayr

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Colorado
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2014 Audi Q7
Its cultural, we have our trucks for towing so marketing small vehicles as tow capable is not even worth the trouble..

In Europe its common for cars of all sizes to haul trailers, so if you want your car to compete on the market you rate it for towing, if you dont and your competitors do then you could miss substantial sales opportunities.

With out that market pressure there is no reason for them to risk the liability and expense of it all.
 

Shife

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Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
In the US we tow at higher average speeds and require zero training. It is cultural, but there is sound reason behind the difference in ratings.

Europe strictly limits weights, speeds, and requires additional training. Trying to apply Euro standards in the US leaves you vulnerable to lawsuits and you end up impeding traffic and creating a huge disparity in speed.

For a short distance/infrequent use it isn't really an issue. If you are towing frequently you bought the wrong vehicle. I move an 1800lb load twice/year at a distance of about 2 miles. If I was towing that every weekend or extended distances I would have bought/rented a different vehicle.
 

redbarron55

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Navarre, FL.
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2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I guess the answer to can it tow is yes it can and quite well.
The corollary answer is:
It is not rated to tow in this country.
You would have to buy a good towbar from Europe for $$$$.
You would have to buy the electrical kit and module to turn on the trailer ESP.
You would have to think for yourself.
If you tow the lawyers will be following you for every mile waiting for something bad to happen.
The Warranty for even the windshield washers will instantly be voided.
The earth will crack and swallow you, your car and trailer forever.
Or, perhaps, nothing will happen except you will move your car and trailer where ever you want in safety.
 

Shife

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Michigan
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2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Nobody cares about your ridiculously overpriced Euro hitch. Nobody cares about your overpriced Euro wiring, which if I remember correctly, you never got working correctly and never got the trailer ESP to work.

No one has said the ridiculous and specious things you allege have been claimed about you and your towing. If you're just trying to justify to yourself the ridiculous amount of money you've spent attempting to tow a crappy camper, knock yourself out. Nobody else cares.

In fact, I think I'll go buy a Miata and run around claiming it's a minivan just so I can see how it feels to be you.
 

redbarron55

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My system is working well and the price I paid ,in my opinion, is worth what I paid.
The car detects the trailer and I haven't had an incident to test the T-ESP there is no reason to think it will not work.
I forgot the other problem with towing with a VW.
That would be attacks from various jerks.
A question was asked and answered and you have added nothing but relatively vile B*^()t.
Anyone can make up their own mind.
I have actually laid out the correct information in a relatively accurate manner.
The answer is that there is no answer that is acceptable to all.
Again it wold be nice if VW would rate these cars in a manner like they do in Europe.
Since I have towed my crappy little camper I would seem to have a quantum amount more real life experience than you do.
Others have towed with no problem and frund the cars to be as good as their UK best in class rating for many years.
However this does not give these cars a manufacturer's rating.
Also where some of these cars are not rated, but towing is discouraged since they are passenger cars they are not prohibiting their use.
The question was can it tow and the answer is yes, but it is not recommended by VW.
All of the above disclaiers apply.
Sorry that facts disturb some people who have no real life experience.
I have two JSWs and have towed with both now. Please note these are NOT GSWs and there may be detailed differences I am not aware of.
If you want to tow in spite of the drawbacks and want to meet the VW ROW specs then get the ROW (rest of world) equipment. Don't use hitches that bolt into unreinforced sheetmetal, but rather the factory specified attach points. Also the ratings are predicated on the T-ESP systems being active which would indicate the trailer module and associated wiring being in place (with necessary modifications if using two wire brake/turn signals and not three wire as in Europe.
I guess ignorance is it's own reward, but in this case I have more than a little knowledge (a dangerous thing).
Investigate the issues and make an informed decision.
As I said expect to be harried by many who disagree. Of buy a F-150 or better.
 

fxk

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Vast wilderness between DC and Baltimore
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2014 Sportwagen TDI
Nobody cares about your ridiculously overpriced Euro hitch. Nobody cares about your overpriced Euro wiring, which if I remember correctly, you never got working correctly and never got the trailer ESP to work.

No one has said the ridiculous and specious things you allege have been claimed about you and your towing. If you're just trying to justify to yourself the ridiculous amount of money you've spent attempting to tow a crappy camper, knock yourself out. Nobody else cares.

In fact, I think I'll go buy a Miata and run around claiming it's a minivan just so I can see how it feels to be you.
Whew! Where did that come from?

Some folks don't want to drive "A BIG TRUCK". It's not just VW, it's also BMW, etc. I'd love to tow with my 528it, but all the US rates it for is class 1 just like the VW.

Someone said, "First, kill all the lawyers.". Might have a point.

frank

ps. Enjoy your Miata minivan.
 

Shife

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Location
Michigan
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2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Whew! Where did that come from?

Some folks don't want to drive "A BIG TRUCK". It's not just VW, it's also BMW, etc. I'd love to tow with my 528it, but all the US rates it for is class 1 just like the VW.

Someone said, "First, kill all the lawyers.". Might have a point.

frank

ps. Enjoy your Miata minivan.
RB has repeatedly invaded every single towing thread with the claim that you must buy the Westfalia hitch like he did along with the OEM wire harness and that this combo somehow will allow you to ignore US towing regs.

There is nothing you can buy that will get you out of the legal liability of exceeding US tow ratings while towing in the US. Nothing. My lawnmower can move my loaded boat trailer. That doesn't mean it's a good choice to tow it to the launch. I tow with my Sportwagen as well, albeit very limited in use, despite the manufacturer refusing to issue a rating for it. If I needed to tow on a regular basis I would either buy or borrow a different vehicle. Pretending the vehicle is something it isn't is just stupid. Accept what it is. It's a compact car. There is no getting around that.

I've towed a lot of different trailers with a lot of different vehicles over the years. Some of us learn humility and mature enough to admit reality and some don't. Just because something can physically tow something doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good choice for a tow vehicle. When RB parks his ego for a bit he might recognise that this statement isn't the equivalent of insulting his children.
 

redbarron55

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Joined
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Location
Navarre, FL.
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2012 Touareg TDI Executive
Here is a homemade hitch that will most probably work quite well. Attached to the factory approved points. Which is my point.




Here is a picture of the Curt hitch and you can see the difference and it does not bolt into the factory approved mounting points.

My point is if you intend to tow more than trivial weights then you must use non trivial equipment. Most of the US made hitches are in the class I zone.
There is one US made hitch that at least uses one pair of the bolt holes the the factory specifies, but not both and it is rated 2000 lbs.
Of course if you plan to tow a non-trivial load you also need electric or surge brakes on the trailer as well as a proper controller. The trailer takes care of most of it's own stopping with it's own brakes.
Around the world many people disagree with this statement as regards to towing with a Golf wagon - " Just because something can physically tow something doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good choice for a tow vehicle."
 

Shife

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2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
And my point is that it doesn't matter what you bolt to it: You are exposing yourself to serious legal liability in the event of an accident. This isn't Europe. If you want to use their towing standards, you might as well move there, because they mean absolutely nothing here.

If one of our engineers refused to acknowledge a shortcoming or design issue, we would fire that engineer. The design may not be bad. It may be the best possible option available, but refusing to accept and acknowledge flaws and issues is dishonest and dangerous.

I have a video for you too. This was in Europe, at 50 mph:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ver-towing-loses-control-trying-overtake.html

If you expect me to believe that you never exceed "Euro" towing speeds with your rig while towing on US roads you are out of your mind. You refuse to be honest about the realities of your tow rig. Why would I believe anything else you say.
 

nayr

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Colorado
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2014 Audi Q7
legal liability my rear end, funny how I can completely build a trailer from scratch out of any old junk I want.. go down to my local DMV, fill out a piece of paper and get legal registration for it to be on the road without actually ever getting that trailer inspected and DOT could care less.

yet somehow, if I hook that contraption up to a 2" ball that does not have a DOT stamp on it then I am totally screwed.

doing something not in the owners manual does not open you up to any extra liability.. I looked really hard and found butt loads of recommendations on DOT's site that you check your vehicles tow ratings with manufacturer, but what I find absent is any actual law or regulation saying that I have to follow my manufacturers tow ratings..

Shife, my point is you are speculating without any evidence to backup your claims.. find me one example of anything your claiming if your not really pulling stuff out of your ass.. yes in your imaginary world something like you describe might happen, but it hasent yet, and unless you do something to get the DOT to hate your guts, I doubt it ever will.
 
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redbarron55

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Quote:
I have a video for you too. This was in Europe, at 50 mph:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-overtake.html - Unquote

And how is this pertinent? The guy driving crashed into the truck at less than 50 mph. This has no relevance whatever. I guess it shows your ability to shift through real world events having to do with towing (likely any subject matter). If you tow anything you should rethink the entire process no matter what you are towing or whatever you are towing with. This video has NOTHING to do with towing with a small car, but rather poor judgement in driving with or without a trailer.
There are many videos of all kinds of tow vehicles crashing while doing something stupid.
You would have wrecked a F150 the same way.

The truck was doing 28 MPH and the car (with trailer) hit it when trying to pass.

If you can't drive better than this then you should not be driving anything towing or not!
 

Shife

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Michigan
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2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Refusing to acknowledge negative aspects is dishonest. It shows a complete lack of objective thinking.

RB - Your arrogance in regard to this subject is disturbing. The reason we are burdened by ambulance chasers and ridiculous laws is directly due to attitudes such as yours.

Nayr - You really think that a lawyer wouldn't use an "overloaded" vehicle as leverage in a lawsuit? Here's some reading for you: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=civil+suit+overloaded+tow+vehicle

I'm not making any of this up. I'm not even saying you shouldn't tow with one of these. I'm just saying you should be honest about the situation.
 

Shife

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Michigan
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2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
At this point I'm convinced you're an 8 year old and your JSW / trailer combo is a plastic toy your mom bought from Toys R Us.
 

jason_

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Jun 2, 2014
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michigan
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2015 s wagon dsg
Holy ****, now I can pull my 38ft triaxle dually kingpin via bumper with my tdi!!

The 8bolt spindles with suspension carry the weight and not my car! It won't exceed my cars weight carry capacity!

There is a tow God!

Louie Padnos, here I come! 4 cars at once! @ 8mpg in 3rd gear.

https://youtu.be/b734eSPO1gI

Sent from my s-off'ed m7 with cm11!
 

redbarron55

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Location
Navarre, FL.
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2012 Touareg TDI Executive

In Texas with 110* F temps. (By the way when this picture was taken the car only had 230,000 miles on it)

I can't believe how childish you can be, but if you have to win any discussion then you win.
This discussion (assuming it could be called that) is a complete waste of time.
My point is if anyone wanted to duplicate the ratings listed for REST OF THE WORLD then they would have to use the equipment specified for the rest of the world as well and this does not include the tinker toy hitches like you have used that do don't attach even to the designed in points.
I have seen one posting in the Fiberglass RV site about a VW that had a failure of the hitch and it was a Curt like yours that fatigue fractures the thin sheetmetal it was attached to.
These forums are a place to exchange information for the study of all of the members and I have correctly listed the way to get the euro performance and you disagree. That is fine, but your childish attacks to "WIN" a discussion are uncalled for. Readers can make up their own minds without this.
Your objections have been noted. You show some skill and discernment except in your manners.
While I have enjoyed reading the posts of interest on these forums it is people like you that make it more trouble than it is worth.
It is probably best that this discussion end.

You may chalk it up as a win for you.
Congratulations!
 
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fxk

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2014 Sportwagen TDI
RB has repeatedly invaded every single towing thread with the claim that you must buy the Westfalia hitch like he did along with the OEM wire harness and that this combo somehow will allow you to ignore US towing regs.

There is nothing you can buy that will get you out of the legal liability of exceeding US tow ratings while towing in the US. Nothing. My lawnmower can move my loaded boat trailer. That doesn't mean it's a good choice to tow it to the launch. I tow with my Sportwagen as well, albeit very limited in use, despite the manufacturer refusing to issue a rating for it. If I needed to tow on a regular basis I would either buy or borrow a different vehicle. Pretending the vehicle is something it isn't is just stupid. Accept what it is. It's a compact car. There is no getting around that.

I've towed a lot of different trailers with a lot of different vehicles over the years. Some of us learn humility and mature enough to admit reality and some don't. Just because something can physically tow something doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good choice for a tow vehicle. When RB parks his ego for a bit he might recognise that this statement isn't the equivalent of insulting his children.
Fair enough. The first post came off as the rantings of a madman. This post is a good explanation of the legal facts -

Please forget I jumped in... :eek:
 
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