Can one of you new Mk7 owners confirm B20 is OK?

[tditom]

Before the cars were sold here there were several articles (here's one) implying that B20 is approved for use in the new EA288 engine. Can one of you new owner's post a pic of the owner's manual page that references the biodiesel limit?

Thanks in advance and congrats on your new tdi.

 

[njiska]

I can't post a picture at the moment, but I took ownership of my MkVII yesterday and according to the manual VW only approves of B5 unless you have an Illinois registered vehicle, in which case they'll honour up to B20 usage under warranty.

 

[tditom]

Thanks. I'm surprised that they did not also mention an exemption for Minnesota as I understand B10 is currently mandated there.

 

[njiska]

http://imgur.com/grtJEak

There a scan of the page that talks about it.

And yeah, looks like it was July 1, 2014 for B10 and a B20 mandate for 2018 in that state.

 

[tditom]

Thanks for sharing that, njiska.

 

[srs5694]

http://imgur.com/grtJEak

There a scan of the page that talks about it.

And yeah, looks like it was July 1, 2014 for B10 and a B20 mandate for 2018 in that state.

Ouch. If I understand correctly, Massachusetts requires B15. I live in Rhode Island, but mostly drive in Massachusetts, and usually fuel up there. If VW is still dragging its heels over biodiesel levels above B5, they may have lost a sale.

 

[FreezingInSask]

There is a key paragraph in there tho. "Using diesel fuel with concentrations of methyl ester biodiesel higher than 5% (B5), such as B11, B20, or B100 when B5 biodiesel is available,is contrary to the terms of your New Vehicle Limited Warranty and is strictly prohibited."

 

[Second Turbo]

B5 or B at risk

Has VW said why the EA288 has a B5 limit?

Historically, the conjecture was the risk of oil dilution. If that's still the concern, we might expect them to also say that if you have to run BD higher than B5, you need a shorter oil change cycle.

 

[tditom]

Has VW said why the EA288 has a B5 limit?

Historically, the conjecture was the risk of oil dilution. If that's still the concern, we might expect them to also say that if you have to run BD higher than B5, you need a shorter oil change cycle.

Yes. Oil dilution remains the concern.

 

[tditom]

There is a key paragraph in there tho. "Using diesel fuel with concentrations of methyl ester biodiesel higher than 5% (B5), such as B11, B20, or B100 when B5 biodiesel is available,is contrary to the terms of your New Vehicle Limited Warranty and is strictly prohibited."

Yes, I see the loophole here Thanks for pointing that out.
I guess we can conclude that they've set up the wording in the manual to cover themselves while giving the owner an out, too.

Bottom line is to try to maintain B5 and keep an eye on your oil level and all is good. Hopefully newbies reading this will understand that B2-B5 are desirable because of the excellent lubricity provided by biodiesel.

 

[Max Period]

See EPA 2015 data file at http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

EDIT: all 2015 VW TDIs biodiesel limit got changed to 5% on the 2015 datafile

 

[tditom]

See EPA 2015 data file at http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

20% for EA288s, 5% for 3.0 TDIs

Where are you seeing this? On the spreadsheet I'm looking at, all of the diesels are limited to B5

 

[srs5694]

FWIW, I sent VW a query about this via their Web site. Here's their reply:

I appreciate you looking for more information about biodiesel fuels, and I’m happy to assist you with any info I have available.
B5 Biodiesel is acceptable for use in Volkswagen TDI vehicles. We would not recommend using any fuel rated higher than a B5, due to the uncertainties in fuel quality specifications. This means your vehicle may be damaged by any bio-diesel with a higher rating than B5.
For your convenience, you can use the following link to see a map of bio-diesel fuel retailers here in America:
http://www.biodiesel.org/using-biodiesel/finding-biodiesel/retail-locations/retail-map#map
We would encourage you to make sure that the fuel rating is clearly labeled on the pump before filling up your vehicle.
I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions for me, please feel free to reply to my email, or call our Customer CARE Center at 800-822-8987.
Sincerely,


Eric L.
Customer CARE Advocate

Given the fact that B5 and lower is becoming very hard to find, I think they've probably just lost a sale.

 

[Chris.D.TDI]

Just a side note- in Massachusetts the biodiesel mandate never passed. Retail diesel fuel is petroleum diesel fuel only with no bio component unless otherwise stated at the pump.

 

[tditom]

Just a side note- in Massachusetts the biodiesel mandate never passed. Retail diesel fuel is petroleum diesel fuel only with no bio component unless otherwise stated at the pump.

Are you certain that 0-5% biodiesel content is required to be labeled as such?
Per ASTM-975, D2 can have up to 5% biodiesel. Labeling regs vary from state to state.

 

[Chris.D.TDI]

Are you certain that 0-5% biodiesel content is required to be labeled as such?
Per ASTM-975, D2 can have up to 5% biodiesel. Labeling regs vary from state to state.

In the commonwealth of MA, yes. I'm not sure about other states. I know our DOT switched over to B20 for all of their diesel trucks and equipment, and unfortunately the bio mandate never even went to the statehouse chambers. I work for the commonwealth and have a friend in the legislative branch who kept me clued in on it!

 

[BadWolf]

Massachusetts is well represented in this forum

 

[Chris.D.TDI]

Massachusetts is well represented in this forum

For the record too, I just pumped B20 into my Mk7 yesterday. Dennis K. Burke is the on,y place I know of that has both B20 and B5, although they stop selling B20 around October sometime.

 

[BadWolf]

We are out in Amherst. I think there is a fair amount of biodiesel around out here. Why do you prefer it?

 

[Chris.D.TDI]

We are out in Amherst. I think there is a fair amount of biodiesel around out here. Why do you prefer it?

I don't notice any real difference between the B20 and B5 to be honest. It may just be me but I feel the engine runs a little smoother with the bio. I'm not in the Chelsea area much so its not often that I fill up with it!

 

[tditom]

In the commonwealth of MA, yes. I'm not sure about other states. I know our DOT switched over to B20 for all of their diesel trucks and equipment, and unfortunately the bio mandate never even went to the statehouse chambers. I work for the commonwealth and have a friend in the legislative branch who kept me clued in on it!

Well this Mass. document states that under 5% no labeling is required. See summary table on page 6.

 

[Drivbiwire]

Has VW said why the EA288 has a B5 limit?

Historically, the conjecture was the risk of oil dilution. If that's still the concern, we might expect them to also say that if you have to run BD higher than B5, you need a shorter oil change cycle.

Heat inside the injectors causes the Biodiesel to break down and form deposits and gums. These deposits can cause failure of the EXTREMELY sensitive flow control of the injectors and if out of tolerance they will trigger codes and require injector cleaning/calibration or replacement in severe cases.

I have a copy of the Bosch papers that go over the issues identified with B20 and so on and it's just like the PD's, the fact is Biodiesel is just to unstable at the extreme temperatures of the system which can exceed 800F in some regions.

Fuel dilution has never been a concern with the multi injection strategy.

The Injectors with more potential for failure are the Solenoid CR injectors. The valve control and the pitting from fuels with high sodium content (reclaimed oil converted to Biodiesel) etches the valving... This totals the injector and they are not repairable...Just like the PD's