Cam ? on '04 PD 247,000 miles

amosdoodle

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Jun 22, 2008
Location
Raleigh NC
TDI
2002 Jetta wagon 1986 Vanagon TDI
PD Cam and Lifter wear

You have a major expense repairing the head. The grove is from the valve lifter next to the injector cam that is completely worn probably like a bowl. You have to do a lot of cleaning and inspection to insure you do not ruin knew replacement parts good luck.
 

mctdi

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Dec 10, 2004
Location
se WI
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2010 Jetta
jasonTDI said:
The cat is going if you smell what you're smelling. I know you'll keep the car for another 250 so I'd just replace the nozzels with Kermas. But the cam and other stuff.....do you run with it or not...tough choice.

It wasn't the amsoil....christ.....If it was there'd be plenty of others with failures....
Thanks for the input. The smell gave me the thought it might be the cat, too. Maybe when I recover dollar wise, time for 2.5" down pipe.:eek:
 

mctdi

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se WI
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2010 Jetta
amosdoodle said:
You have a major expense repairing the head. The grove is from the valve lifter next to the injector cam that is completely worn probably like a bowl. You have to do a lot of cleaning and inspection to insure you do not ruin knew replacement parts good luck.
I agree, after looking at the pictures some more, that was one thought.

Last Thursday, when I got home, the car had a small miss at idle and a little valve noise. So the car was parked. I am waiting on parts ordered first part of last week. Hope to have needed parts to replace camshaft this weekend.

:eek: Poof, there went my Economic Stimulus check plus much more.:eek: :rolleyes:
 

Mach1

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05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
Man,not to be negative, but if you got a quarter million miles out of your car, you got your moneys worth.

I would like to get 300000 out of mine.
 

Bob_Fout

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Indiana
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250K miles is not much for a modern car, not much for a VW, and not much for a TDI. Waaaay too early for the engine to crap out.
 

wjdell

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Central Florida
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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
I would consider 507 oil - do some UOA's and see were the soot level is running. The whole assembly must go if its replaced so - I think the drive and periodic inspection is the wise move. The UOA's will tell if its getting worse and the rate. 250 k is allot of miles and well worth the investment. Most engines do not last that long, When I think about it if you have a groove that deep then the lifter is not rotating. Thats a 04 and I think the lifters were updated. Could be they changed the material so when it gets hot there is less expansion.

I wonder if anyone will buy a crated 2009 2.0 Ltire CRD and put in in their 04 - 06 cars.
 

Bob_Fout

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WJ, 250K miles is not a lot of miles. We must lose our thinking about engines from the past 20 to 40 years, they don't apply anymore. If anything, the motor was only 50% "used".
 

mctdi

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se WI
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2010 Jetta
Mach1 said:
Man,not to be negative, but if you got a quarter million miles out of your car, you got your moneys worth.

I would like to get 300000 out of mine.
I had hoped for more without a major repair, as my 92 Mazda Protégé gave me 347,000 miles when I unloaded it due to rust issues. The Mazda's engine and trany were still tight and unopened. Org. clutch too.

This weekend I plan to replace the Golf's camshaft and related parts. And hope for another 250,000 before the next major repair. I'll see.:)
 

Franko6

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May 7, 2005
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Sw Missouri
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Jetta, 99, Silver`
I don't think I'd spend too much time worrying about the groove in the injector cam. The valve cams are what look bad to me. One pictured looks worn.

The dealer's camshaft price will set you back on you heels. I've found a source for the cams. Out of the country, and I need lead time, but I can get them. As for the injectors, I'd wonder about replacing them. The parts that drive me nuts... stretch EVERYTHING! About $200 in throw-away bolts, and the seal kits for the injectors are $160, let alone the price of the injectors. I'd think the injectors are rebuildable. Check them before you replace them
 

mctdi

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Dec 10, 2004
Location
se WI
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2010 Jetta
Well I finally took time to list the parts used in replacing the camshaft. Sorry for the delay.


Part____________________Part Number ___________Qty. ____Cost Each

Camshaft--------------038-109-101-R--------------------1-------------$699.51----------------$699.51
Camshaft Bearings-------------038-103-673-B-GLB------------10------------$13.50-----------------$135.00
Cam Bearing Cap Bolts------038-103-714-----------------------10------------$4.63-------------------$46.30
Cam Followers------------------038-109-309-C---------------------8-------------$42.37-----------------$338.96
Sealant-----------------------------AMV-174-004-01------------------1-------------$49.23-----------------$49.23
Rocker Arm Shafts------------038-109-527-AF--------------------2------------$285.17----------------$570.34
Rocker Arm Shaft Bolts-----038-103-714-A----------------------8------------$6.02-------------------$48.16
Rocker Arm Adjusting
Screws [w/ shaft]--------------WHT-000-530------------------------0------------$4.32--------------------$0.00
Cam Shaft Seal - sprocket
end [w/ TB kit]------------------068-103-085-E-----------------------1------------$0.00
Tandem Pump Seal-----------038-145-215--------------------------1-----------$11.25------------------$11.25

Cam Tool - Holder-------------Matra T10051-------------------------1-----------$74.50-----------------$74.50
Cam Tool - Sprocket
Puller-------------------------------Matra T10052-------------------------1-----------$89.95----------------$89.95



TOTAL---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$2,063.20


 
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whitedog

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jcrews said:
$3636 for the full assembly = BRM
$2565 for BEW (2004).
That can't be with injectors. If not, then add injector seals, head bolts, in/out gaskets, tandem pump gasket, Injector hold down bolts (?), coolant and other things. (I just pulled that list out my dieseldorf.) :D
 

jcrews

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All gone
"Cylinder head with valves, camshaft, and injector (pump/jet)"
A bare head is $1460. The catalog could be wrong since one complete pumpjet is over $750.

Notice those are MSRP. You might have to tell the dealer you know better than to take their offer :)
 
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mctdi

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se WI
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The head listed above for the BEW, if from VW, is with rebuilt injectors and is a rebuilt head. To get all new parts one would have to buy each part. And the same for the block from VW. VW is not selling new assemblies in USA.
 

zanzabar

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Where can I buy one of these rebuilt heads? I want one, soon.
 

jasonTDI

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Rehash old thread.

I just got one yesterday that had 5-6K oil services. Smoking and the tell-tale pop of a bad lifter. Yep. 3 bad lifters. 150K 05' beetle. Correct oil. Owner is pretty peeved to say the least.
 

whitedog

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HopefulFred said:
So, where's the weak link that leads to this, and can I do anything about it?
That is somehting that people are trying to figure out. Is it the cam or the followers? Will the updated followers keep this from happening? Maybe a different oil - even one non-505.01 certified - will take care of it. It's all too early to tell.
 

greenskeeper

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USA
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1998 Jetta TDI
jasonTDI said:
Rehash old thread.

I just got one yesterday that had 5-6K oil services. Smoking and the tell-tale pop of a bad lifter. Yep. 3 bad lifters. 150K 05' beetle. Correct oil. Owner is pretty peeved to say the least.
Wow "early" oil changes with the correct oil and still a failure...might have to stick with my AHU for a while.
 

bf1967

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2005 Golf
jasonTDI said:
Rehash old thread.

I just got one yesterday that had 5-6K oil services. Smoking and the tell-tale pop of a bad lifter. Yep. 3 bad lifters. 150K 05' beetle. Correct oil. Owner is pretty peeved to say the least.
Was the cam trashed or was it enough to replace the lifters?

Bob
 

Dimitri16V

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DE
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jasonTDI said:
Rehash old thread.

I just got one yesterday that had 5-6K oil services. Smoking and the tell-tale pop of a bad lifter. Yep. 3 bad lifters. 150K 05' beetle. Correct oil. Owner is pretty peeved to say the least.
Pics , please..
Jason, it looks like rebuilding PDs is going to be your new specialty.
Maybe TDICLUB needs to conduct a law firm and we can have a class action suit.
Here is an idea for the vendors, put together a kit with the new upgraded lifters, cam bearings all the stretch bolts and we can all install it around 200K. kit should also include a 1 gallon of M-1 TDT.
 
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jasonTDI

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bf1967 said:
Was the cam trashed or was it enough to replace the lifters?

Bob
It's all gone......looks like the photos.
 

jasonTDI

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Didn't take pics this time. He went home with it. Bad timing since the other beetle hit a deer the night before. Waiting to hear back from him on the repairs...A few others have mentioned if it happened to them they'd do lifters and that's it and trade the car....Not cool.
 

PDJetta

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All of this discussion got me thinking about my cam and lifters and what is involved in replacing them, so I read the camshaft removal procedure in my Bentley (CD version) Manual. It does not appear too difficult and it appears that you may not need the counter hold tool and the hub puller special tools (anyone here do this job without them?)

But I did notice that there is NO MENTION in Bentley of the need to repace the bolts holding down the injector rockers, nor is there mention of replacing the nuts or bolts (not sure which are used, there is no depiction of the camshaft cap fastners) holding down the camshaft beraring caps. Bentley lists for both of these fastners a certain tightening torque, PLUS a quarter turn. I thought this meant that they were "torque to yield" and that they should ALWAYS be replaced.

Next, I looked in the section on replacing the unit injectors in my Bentley and for the injector rockers, it said to ALWAYS REPLACE the rocker bolts.

The above illustrates inconsistiences I have observed in the Bentley manual. Obviously, you are supposed to replace the injector rocker bolts each time, but in the section on removing the camshaft, the need to replace the injector rocker bolts IS NOT mentioned. I am still wondering if the cam bearing cap fasteners have to be replaced.

Obviously there appears to be a problem with the PDs burning out cams and lifters WITH the correct oil used, but how prevelant are the failures. I am wondering if it is just a small percentage, and the majority of us will be OK.

--Nate
 
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whitedog

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Nate, is there some place on the CD Bentley that says that all Torque-turn bolts are TTY bolts?
 
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