Cam bearing Reengineering for PD motors

[bluesmoker]

05newjetta,

We have had some cams, particularly from the 'Frozen North' that have gotten fantastic wear, well over 400 kilometers, some 500 kilometers.

Then, we have those who weren't able to get 20,000 out of an aftermarket cam. I don't think it's luck. I certainly know there are better and worse cams built out there, but the obvious conclusion, it is not that thousands of PD owners do lousy maintenance, but the POTENTIAL for cam failure is high because the cam design is poor.

So, if you got 200,000 miles from your aftermarket cam and then have to rebuild it again, would it not be better to have a cam/ lifter set that is still going strong? We have a lot of engines with 250,000 miles who have told us, "It looks like it's still breaking in."

Our record-keeper is an ADDITIONAL 450,000 miles. So, there are always exceptions to the case.

There are questions.
1. What oil are you using?
2. What change interval?
3. What is your driving style?
4. Where is most of your driving done? City/ Highway?
5. What distances do you average drive?
6. Is your vehicle automatic or standard?

So, besides the average high temperature, there are several factors which can increase
or decrease life-expectancy of a cam. Our effort is to make a cam that can take abuse better and still survive.

I think we have accomplished that.

time for me to come out of the (dino) closet


my PD cam had visible discoloration at about 80, 000 km, up until this time I was using stealer 5w30-505.01 oil.


My mechanic, Euro Wrench Werks suggested I do the following:

• change to a CJ HDEO 15w40
• 6 month- 5000 mile oil change interval
• delete the egr to reduce soot contamination

I have now passed 250, 000 km on the original cam and turbo, the valve cover was off last week to replace a dead injector, it electronically failed and the car was running on 3 cylinders


The cam is still in excellent shape and the lifters show no evidence of dishing, cracking or any wear at all


My mechanic then mentioned that some BEW and BRM cars have eaten through 2 cams in the time period that my original cam continues to live on



this is just one man's opinion and real world observations but I think a heavier viscosity HEDO full of zinc and phosphorus is one solution to the PD cam fiasco


this is the oil in my car right now:


https://www.bosslubricants.com/viewproductdetails/heavy-duty-extreme-diesel-engine-oils-api-cj-4

 

[Ol'Rattler]

I wouldn't go by that mechanics recommendation. Could actually cause more harm than good. Your cars engine clearances were not designed for 15W40 oil. Boss Lubricants do not make an oil suitable for your car either.

Also, the dealer does not even stock the correct weight oil for your car. Their 5W30 substitution is pure nonsense. The owners manual specifies 505.1 5W40.

Frank Irving (Franko6) has done extensive research and re-engineering on the PD cam issues and recommends Schaeffers 9000 5W40 for the PD engines. I have been using it with 10K mile OCI's since I installed my Franko6 cam 100K miles ago. So far, no discernible wear on the cam.

https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com...YPnLzT3UZsoA8iI_O9VgzXRfCNDUWdygaAp8rEALw_wcB

 

[relumalutan]

I wouldn't go by that mechanics recommendation. Could actually cause more harm than good. Your cars engine clearances were not designed for 15W40 oil. Boss Lubricants do not make an oil suitable for your car either.

Also, the dealer does not even stock the correct weight oil for your car. Their 5W30 substitution is pure nonsense. The owners manual specifies 505.1 5W40.

Frank Irving (Franko6) has done extensive research and re-engineering on the PD cam issues and recommends Schaeffers 9000 5W40 for the PD engines. I have been using it with 10K mile OCI's since I installed my Franko6 cam 100K miles ago. So far, no discernible wear on the cam.

https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com...YPnLzT3UZsoA8iI_O9VgzXRfCNDUWdygaAp8rEALw_wcB

I'm doing the same (using Schaeffer's 9000 5W40 per Frank06's recommendation) and I have no wear on the replacement cam kit I bought from him 130k miles ago.

 

[Mrrogers1]

I'm doing the same (using Schaeffer's 9000 5W40 per Frank06's recommendation) and I have no wear on the replacement cam kit I bought from him 130k miles ago.

I actually switched ALL the PD cars I maintain to the 9000 after doing one of Franks setups and they are doing good. No wear on Franks cam and the others are holding up. I also switched to their 8008 mid-saps in my MK7 and numbers are consistently better than the other main 507 option. I trust Frank and Schaeffer's products as well.

 

[truman]

Same here
140k on reprofiled BEW and Schaeffer 9000.

 

[o2bad455]

Just read all 21 pages! Great stuff here! After years of gas-only VWs including many self-prepped low-budget race cars, I recently picked up my first used VW TDI (and just started driving it after temporarily giving up on cold weather starting over the winter). It definitely has a rough idle when cold and some valve clatter even when warm, but pulls strong when not in limp mode (wiring harness issue that I'm working on now). It's a Canadian 06 Mk5 Jetta TDI DSG with BRM engine and nearly 450K km on the clock. Appears to be base model with some cold-weather options like heated cloth seats (still work great) and an auxiliary electric cabin heater (broken per VCDS).

Franko6, I'll be inspecting the cam some weekend soon, so first need is for your reusable bolt set (at least the rocker bolts and ideally the cam cap bolts too). Might also be interested in a set of your modified bearings (although undecided on drilling caps/head or just slotted bearings), and depending on what I find, possibly (probably?) a cam and/or some new lifters. Do you have a list of your currently available parts/prices?

 

[o2bad455]

Since I don't want to pull mine apart for inspection until I have at least some non-TTY bolts on hand, I've been trying to wrap my head around this by looking at not-so-close-up online pics of PD heads. Assuming your pic on the right is the original lower bearing shell in an unmodified head, did you mean to say "downward and to the front" instead of "downward and to the rear" (that is, the 7 o-clock position as viewed from the LHD driver's side)?

... The Pumpe Duse engines with unit injectors, which fire at around 27,000 psi, are operated by a rocker shaft and roller for the injectors. The forces exerted are in the opposite direction from what is normal in a TDI overhead cam engine. The pressure on the camshaft bearings is downward and to the rear as exhibited in this picture. Note the galley oiling hole in the right bearing shell.

The wear patterning shows the center of the downward force to be about at the 7 o'clock position. The top shell on the left is virtually untouched. Please note that the pitting on the top shell is from being thrown around in a box for a while, not from any damage of operation. ...

 

[James & Son]

When you determine direction of rotation for a motor you do it from the front (#1 piston is at the front). The tdi rotates clockwise. The front of the tdi motor( timing belt side) is on the passengers side. The picture you are looking at has been taken from the side of the motor(back firewall) forward so that you can see the oil slot in the lower shell (on the right in picture) which is at the 4;00 oclock clock wise position.

Therefore in this picture the downward force and wear is at 5:00 o'clock normally called the front side of the bearing. Frank obviously knows this but gets screwed around once in a while.

 

[o2bad455]

... Therefore in this picture the downward force and wear is at 5:00 o'clock normally called the front side of the bearing. ...

Ah, many thanks! I'm afraid I'm still dealing with wiring harness issues and haven't even reached the cam yet (so I didn't even know the PD's lower cam bearing shell horizontal oil feed slot was towards the front). Your explanation helps a lot!


Has anyone tried just grooving the small portion of bottom shell above the slot as well as half to all of the top shell? Seems to me the oil would still travel counter-cam rotation as long as the slot was deep enough (maybe 3 thou?)...? How deep is the bearing's Babbitt or non-steel material before hitting the steel backing (or, alternatively, how thick is the steel backing)?


Edit: Or, if the Babbitt isn't thick enough before running into the steel backing, how about circumferentially grooving the cam journals themselves? I believe the 1965-66 396 c.i. big block Chevy had a circumferential rear cam journal groove about 0.188" wide and 0.125" deep.

 

[vwitch]

I had a different problem, and will post later tonight, but I think i found your guys problem. The oil filter housing has a port that goes to the head. In the aluminum the housing is a cast in slit that is smaller than a hole in one of the cam bearings as a restrictor for the oil. So the flow to the head is slightly more than a dribble if the first place and trying to get more out of it by messing around with the bearings may be moot. I'll get you guys pics.

 

[shuswap]

I had a different problem, and will post later tonight, but I think i found your guys problem. The oil filter housing has a port that goes to the head. In the aluminum the housing is a cast in slit that is smaller than a hole in one of the cam bearings as a restrictor for the oil. So the flow to the head is slightly more than a dribble if the first place and trying to get more out of it by messing around with the bearings may be moot. I'll get you guys pics.

Looking forward to your info, thanks.

 

[vwitch]

Well I cannot or will not, oh well I guess its that easy now a daze.

Any way that is a brm filter housing. I got a car that need a cam(suposidly). The cam was wasted, or more the cyl 1 rocker and then further the cam bearings. I rebuilt the third head I got from a junk yard most were wasted in the lifter hole area, new guides surface clean everything took down the pan,good used rockers, AMC cam kit, all the bolts etc. The oil pressure seemed fine about 30 lbs at idle warm above the 2 bar spec at the 2000 rpm and not exceding the 7 bar at full throtle, around 70 psi @4000 rpm. Well needed to say I changed the oil @ 1000 miles, seemed fine but more rattely than normal or since it was my first brm, I didn't really know. Then I went to change the oil a 5 40 luquimoly product @ 5000 more miles, through the oil cap after putting the oil in, the roller on the rocker #1 was starting to come apart again. So cheap ebay cam kit new bolts I pulled the cam caps down with the only good upper bearings I had, plastigaged the 1 3 5 bearings , .0015 or so clearience, 2 and 4 got got gauged as well( I had to for the bearings didn't spin but the parting lines one 1 2 and 3 of the caps was off and measured a little funky with a snap gaudge). Started the pig up waited about a minute then took off the oil cap DRY!. Oil pressure still good. Then I looked to the oil filter housing off and then I found the above picture. That stuff weighs or has the same grams as what I will show now.

And this shows the feed into the block for the supply to the head, a knife blade pointing to the problem. Any way I took a rat tail file and opened up the port to the head in the filter housing, all said a25 psi @ idle 50 @ around 1500 and about 60 @ 4000 rpm. Oil every where in the upper end when you take off the fill cap. Playing around with bearings in my opinion is something to be left to bearing manufactures, and if you want more oil getting to those bearings open the aforementioned port and make sure nothing is in there for I'd bet anything dropped into the oil filter adapter on a change might get to that port or the slit that supplies it, stuff didn't seem to be heading to the main galley port that is about 12mm, a much larger hole(probably lower flow), and as I said that plastic glob which must have come from total thermal nuclear melt down at some point weighted the same as the filter core(just if you didn't get that part).

This was a new short block from vw 60 k ago with an after market head brand AMC (not saying that I like AMC) when I got it, Its pretty hard that some one missed the center of the oil filter to be missing or "some body" at a colorado diesel land dinosaur place swapped the housing on to a fresh motor with out looking.
And anyway again if u rebuild one of these heads spring them heavier vw never had a problem with non coated lifters with much more pressure on them and open up the oil filter housing. My old 16 v motor I built, I would shift at 8200 rpm, I'd hold it there to to show people, @ 8400 it sounded not so stable.
I did read all these posts before, every one, before taking off a single came cap and would like to say thank you guys and gals for all the free info.
Thanks again Ian Smith

 

[vwitch]

 

[vwitch]

couple other tid bits, the first time around I did take down the pan and a main and rod cap looking for spooky stuff but it was fine and the debris in the pan didn't look like main or rod, and the second time I took down the pan and premtivly changed it to a checked audi tt pump and swappwed the gear over, I needed to clean the pick up this time and should have before. If a motor ever eats a part of it self there will be metal in there. No matter what you think you see, take it off and clean it more and you'll see more stuff come out, that being said the origional pump that I replaced had minimal wear when I checked it but you should always remove the pick up and clean or replace it. If I had time I would have ultrasoniced it, but carb clean compressed air and paper towles to blow the debris on was all that time would allow. Sorry for the off topic but when you guys louse a lifter it went some where and the pick up screen if the first filter.