Calling Oilhammer other trans wizards - 17116 - Gear 2 P0732 - 003 - Incorrect Ratio

dubCanuck1

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
Well, this one happened. Driving the car one day (2005 TDI Passat with Tipper). I noticed that it was hard shifting and then noticed that on the gauge cluster, all the gear selection lights would go on after about 3 minutes of driving. Coming to a stop, the car would be stuck in 3rd I believe until I stopped fully (the engine would bog considerably until I'm assuming the torque convertor let off). Starts were in 3rd gear and I was getting MIL/CEL on the console. I noticed that if I turned off the car, I could get back to using 1st gear on starts, but only for about 1 minute. Then the behaviour would repeat itself. So, I nursed it into the dealership and got a call back the next day about having 3 codes on the trans and needing to replace the transmission. They were going to do me a favor and let me have one installed for a reasonable $6800. So, I drove it home because it sounded a lot like the issues I had with my 01M, which ended up being a combination of the valve body, and the internal trans harness being cracked.

So, I'm sitting in the front seat typing this, after having read a few horror stories. I ran the codes and got this one from my VAG-Com:
17116 - Gear 2
P0732 - 003 - Incorrect Ratio - MIL ON
Now, I have a diagnostic from the dealer indicating that there were 3 of these. That's why I'm somewhat suspicious. It seems off to me that "suddenly" 3 gear decide to puke at once. This is even more fishy considering I can only pull one code.

I noticed there are some checks to be done before continuing on. I'll be performing those. I read that it seems that these transmissions can't be opened up. Is that the case or a wive's tale?

I've got another couple cars I can drive for the time being, but figured I'd ask the gurus for some help. If needed, I'd probably invest in another trans, but I'd like to make sure it's actually a requirement.

I'll update everyone on the status. I don't know why, but my gut tells me that this one isn't a slam dunk, so I'm going to find out for sure.
 

dubCanuck1

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Calgary, Alberta
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2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
OK, so I did the acoustic tests. Here were the results:
N88 - OK
N89 - OK
N90 - OK
N110 - OK
PCV 1 - 215 - OK
PCV 2 - 216 - heard a single "click" that sounded more like it came from the gauge cluster, but no alternating "tick/beep" like the other PCV did.
PCV 3 - 217 - No noise.

Odd. I did the tests several times and after having written this, I actually had the "PCV 4 - 218" show up as well as the Transmission control power relay, but neither of those responded either.
 
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vwztips

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Aug 30, 2009
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Greenville, SC
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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
just for kicks, check under the front passenger carpet to see if it is wet. could be a wet transmission control unit or wiring harness which has corroded connectors.
In case it is wet, and you have a bad TCU, I have spare.
 

vwztips

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Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
it's dry underneath the carpet? Not just the mat.
 

thundershorts

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west chester pa
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
While you have a look for possible moisture/corrosion signs at tcu, open up the tcu harness about 10 inches and look for the brown wires spliced. they are the grounds for the tcu and are known to corrode at the splice and rot off. tou will have to slit open the cable to find it.
 

dubCanuck1

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Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
Sorry. A couple 60-hour work weeks kind of killed my efforts.

Today, I'm back on it. I hooked the car up again and did measured the blocks for the trans (lots of handy info in that spot, btw). The multifunction switch seems to be working properly (according to the readings while parked. I'll post the reading after having driven it and re-recorded things).

I looked at the voltage reading for the PCV valves and all of them were constant (N216, N217, and N218); however, N215 was changing on a regular basis. If I changed gears, the reading would increase or decrease. Now, I'm not sure if that's supposed be the case, but I figured I'd note it before I forgot it. I'm just working through some other things in the Bentley and some other articles online that have similar issues.
 

dubCanuck1

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Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
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2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
OK. Here's the summary of the rest of my testing for this afternoon:
I started the car and here's what I started with:

After driving it to get this lovely display on the gauge cluster (and the bad shifting).

I hooked it up again . Note Group 002, section 4 This is in Park (P)


In reverse


Neutral


Drive (with a resounding thunk, probably because it was still "stuck" in 4th gear).

The Voltage for N215 would change on almost every shift. On this one, it went to 560, 440, then settled on 0.96 as in this image.




.....
 

dubCanuck1

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Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
All other gears (after the drive)

4th gear

3rd gear

2nd gear

With it in manual (Tiptronic) position:

.....and for good measure, I took a scan again of the car and ended up with an additional code.
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 3B0 927 156 CF
Component: AG5 01V 2.0lPD USA 0404
Coding: 0001104
Shop #: WSC 00028 028 00001
VCID: 6CCD5D704C725678ED4
2 Faults Found:
17116 - Gear 2
P0732 - 003 - Incorrect Ratio - MIL ON
17117 - Gear 3
P0733 - 003 - Incorrect Ratio
Yaaaaay! I have another gear that has problems. According to the VW tech, there were 3 of them. This lines up with my Diagnostic testing and having the PCV valves not responding. Now to get greasy.
 

dubCanuck1

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2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
So, doing my Bentley homework...Definitions of N21x PCV valves.


  • Solenoid Valve 4 N91 and Pressure Control Valve 1 for Auto. Transmission N215

  • Continuously regulates (as a modulation valve) the amount of ATF required. Additional information for this can be found in 180 5-Spd. Automatic Transmission 01V .
  • Solenoid Valve 5 N92 and N93 and Pressure Control Valve 2 for Auto. Transmission N216 and Pressure Control Valve 3 for Auto. Transmission N217

  • These modulation valves continuously regulate the hydraulic pressure during gear changes to enable the clutches and brakes to open and close smoothly. Additional information for this can be found in 180 5-Spd. Automatic Transmission 01V .
  • Solenoid Valve 4 N94 and Pressure Control Valve 4 for Auto. Transmission N218

  • Regulates (as a modulation valve) the opening and closing of the lock-up clutch. Additional information can be found in 180 5-Speed Automatic Transmission 01V .
Wouldn't this mean that N215 bouncing around is normal, but the others being almost constantly at .048A as the problem, or does this simply mean that N216 and N217 don't show readings unless the car is driving and shifting gears?
 

thundershorts

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west chester pa
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
You hadn't mentioned the miles/km's on this unit but I'll go on assumption of 200k+ kms. In all likelyhood fluid has never been changed? I think you're pretty much fooked. unfortunately vcds can only read certain aspects but not internal condition of trans components. The problems could be in vb, but no way of telling without replacing it. A good argument for fluid changes is to maintain lube qualities protecting vb from excessive wear. I admire your effort to find the causes of the failure, however if the trans has the km's and time it may be somewhat futile. It might be a time to contact Franz and go 5 or 6sp manual. I think that's what I'd consider when/if mine takes a dump.
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
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Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
732 is almost always a drum broken out. Further diagnosis is definatly necessary though.

Clear the code with vag-com and watch gear command. Drive the car. If it "neutrals out" as vag-com shows the computer commanding 2nd gear (everytime) then you probably have the drum broken out.

see my posts (especially #31) in the following thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=379182
 
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dubCanuck1

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Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
Update on this one. I ran out of time, working 60+ hrs a week, so it went off to my VW mechanic friend. I still had reverse and things weren't making any noises. Funny thing. When I was driving it to him, as long as I really babied it, it wouldn't dump into limp mode. It actually took about 10 minutes of "mild" driving before it actually went into limp mode. I'll post up the outcome.

Thanks for the posts guys. They've helped a ton.

Mileage is 175,000 km btw.
 
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thundershorts

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west chester pa
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Of course you could drop the trans pan and have a look for chunkies, steel slivers, and burnt clutch flakes, etc. Then It may be obvious you have a deep mechanical failure. If not, and trans fluid hasn't been changed before, it won't harm anything.
 

dubCanuck1

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Oct 1, 2004
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, MKII/2002 ALH TDI (In progress)
My guy was goimg to put a bunch of work into it, but we couldn't seem to get parts for the trans. When he pulled the valve body off there were "icicles" of comgealed fluid coming off of it. Here's what he figures would have been wrong.

Valve body and rebuild kit, with fivers and steels, without taking it apart, might have had drum issues.

I ended up buying a new trans. I'll be changing the fluid on a quite regular basis
 
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