Ca-40??

[EvilBunny]

this was brought up amonst the MKI guys today. i was like hmm. so i am here asking for someinfo as well. it seems fishy, but i have noo idea!! here is directly from the website.



Its called CA-40 sounds like this does what KY/Astroglide does for all us rabbits, any feed back is welcomeSome info from their site

http://www.ca40g.com/pages.php?pageid=7
How It Works
Calcium is the second best metallic lubricant on the planet, and is used in the best greases. It's also one of the major components of CA-40. The problem has been that no one has ever been able to keep calcium suspended in fuel. Until now.
CA-40 keeps calcium in suspension through our patented blending process. When CA-40 is added to gasoline or diesel, the calcium bonds to hydrocarbons within the fuel, causing it to burn more efficiently. What this means to consumers is increased fuel efficiency, increased lubricity, and a decrease in harmful emissions.

Combustion Enhancement
Unlike other additives, CA-40 is not a solvent. It is actually a combustion enhancer. Usually only about half of the hydrocarbons in fuel are burned in an internal combustion engine. Combustion enhancement is attained through further oxidation of the un-burnt hydrocarbons in the fuel.

There are three things that are needed in combustion: fuel, oxygen and ignition. CA-40 suspends within the hydrocarbons and further allows oxygen and fuel to be held together (fuel and oxygen). The third component of ignition is accomplished due to the thermo-electric and Piezo-electric properties of the calcium in CA-40. When combustion occurs in the engine, the heat and pressure causes the electrons in the calcium to accelerate. This acceleration provides the ignition (spark) in the proximity of the hydrocarbons resulting in further oxidation (burning) of the hydrocarbons. The end result is a longer, stronger push on the piston, causing an increase in horsepower (see Diesel Dyno test page).

CA-40 does not take fuel out of specifications
CA-40 does not change Octane or Cetane, but uses it more efficiently. Independent testing indicated that CA-40 did not take gasoline out of specifications.
Increased Lubricity
As stated above, calcium, a key ingredient in CA-40, is an outstanding lubricant. Tests in gasoline have indicated a 191% increase in lubricity, while ultra-low sulfur diesel tests have shown a 300% increase in lubricity when treated with CA-40 (see Diesel Fuel Lubricity and Gasoline Lubricity test pages).
Environmentally Safe
Catalytic converters burn some of the hydrocarbons not burned in the engine, cleaning vehicle emissions. The problem is, the un-burnt hydrocarbons mean the engine isn't getting as much power out of the fuel as it could, and there are still hydrocarbons that aren't burned. With CA-40, more hydrocarbons are burned in the engine, and the catalytic converter burns all of the remaining hydrocarbons. Vehicles tested using fuel treated with CA-40 had ZERO un-burnt hydrocarbons at the tailpipe. Engines burning fuel treated with CA-40 have tested with a 50% reduction in Nitrogen Oxides (See Emissions test information page). Also, all ingredients in CA-40 are environmentally friendly.
CA-40 is backed by a $2 million insurance policy

 

[tditom]

I don't like the fact that they are not using the standard test method for diesel fuel lubricity.

Test bearings were soaked in winter blend diesel fuel (15 ppm. sulfur) mixed with the additives for 24 hours per sample. The tests were completed with 26 lbs of pressure on the rotating bearing that was half submerged in the test medium.

check out this thread on lubricity testing

 

[Almagne]

Some guys here over the summer used it. Here is the thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=178455

 

[dieselgeezer]

Calcium is a reactive metal that you wouldn't want to put into your engine. It reacts with water to form calcium hydroxide (slaked lime) and hydrogen gas. Calcium hydroxide reacts with carbon dixoxide to form calcium carbonate (limestone). It also reacts with fatty acids to form insoluble salts (soaps) that are pretty good lubricants and can be dispersed in organic solvents (like motor oil). Calcium can also be incorporated into organometallic compounds, similar to tetraethyl lead, a compound that used to be added to gasoline to increase its octane number. Run any of these compounds through a diesel engine and you're back to limestone again. If there is any sulfur around, you also get calcium sulfate (gypsum; i.e., wallboard filler). I wonder what limestone and gypsum do to your turbo and catalytic converter.

 

[dieselgeezer]

And, by the way, 40 is the atomic weight of elemental calcium. Get it---Ca-40? Anybody want to buy some mouse milk?

 

[MayorDJQ]

So when I'm done with my cereal in the morning, can I just pour the left over milk into my fuel tank?

 

[dieselgeezer]

The Ca-40 goes on your cereal. The mouse milk is for your fuel tank.

 

[Fourdiesel]

sniphttp://www.ca40g.com/pages.php?pageid=7
How It Works
Calcium is the second best metallic lubricant on the planet, and is used in the best greases. It's also one of the major components of CA-40. The problem has been that no one has ever been able to keep calcium suspended in fuel. Until now.
CA-40 keeps calcium in suspension through our patented blending process. When CA-40 is added to gasoline or diesel, the calcium bonds to hydrocarbons within the fuel, causing it to burn more efficiently. What this means to consumers is increased fuel efficiency, increased lubricity, and a decrease in harmful emissions.

Combustion Enhancement
Unlike other additives, CA-40 is not a solvent. It is actually a combustion enhancer. Usually only about half of the hydrocarbons in fuel are burned in an internal combustion engine. Combustion enhancement is attained through further oxidation of the un-burnt hydrocarbons in the fuel.

There are three things that are needed in combustion: fuel, oxygen and ignition. CA-40 suspends within the hydrocarbons and further allows oxygen and fuel to be held together (fuel and oxygen). The third component of ignition is accomplished due to the thermo-electric and Piezo-electric properties of the calcium in CA-40. When combustion occurs in the engine, the heat and pressure causes the electrons in the calcium to accelerate. This acceleration provides the ignition (spark) in the proximity of the hydrocarbons resulting in further oxidation (burning) of the hydrocarbons. The end result is a longer, stronger push on the piston, causing an increase in horsepower (see Diesel Dyno test page).

CA-40 does not take fuel out of specifications
CA-40 does not change Octane or Cetane, but uses it more efficiently. Independent testing indicated that CA-40 did not take gasoline out of specifications.
Increased Lubricity
As stated above, calcium, a key ingredient in CA-40, is an outstanding lubricant. Tests in gasoline have indicated a 191% increase in lubricity, while ultra-low sulfur diesel tests have shown a 300% increase in lubricity when treated with CA-40 (see Diesel Fuel Lubricity and Gasoline Lubricity test pages).
Environmentally Safe
Catalytic converters burn some of the hydrocarbons not burned in the engine, cleaning vehicle emissions. The problem is, the un-burnt hydrocarbons mean the engine isn't getting as much power out of the fuel as it could, and there are still hydrocarbons that aren't burned. With CA-40, more hydrocarbons are burned in the engine, and the catalytic converter burns all of the remaining hydrocarbons. Vehicles tested using fuel treated with CA-40 had ZERO un-burnt hydrocarbons at the tailpipe. Engines burning fuel treated with CA-40 have tested with a 50% reduction in Nitrogen Oxides (See Emissions test information page). Also, all ingredients in CA-40 are environmentally friendly.
CA-40 is backed by a $2 million insurance policy

ONE word for this - TECHNOBABBLE - all of it. Unless elemental calcium is claimed to act as a catalyst - and that is NOT claimed. It probably has NO effect on combustion of diesel. With the excess air in diesels I don't believe incomplete combustion is a problem anyway. In fact, that is one of the reasons diesel engines are better!

 

[wjdell]

soot is a by pproduct of poor combustion - Cetane promotes better combustion especially under no load conditions. PRI D is a well known product for better combustion without changeing cetane.

All my UOA's show 0% soot which means les than .1%. I hope to go to 7k and continue to show a level of soot < .1%. I use snake oil, is it working, not sure but most people are showing allot more soot than I am.

 

[dieselgeezer]

wjdel you are talking snake oil now. Very different from mouse milk....like apples and oranges. When it comes to Ca-40, I think I'd rather have soot in my exhaust than limestone.

 

[wjdell]

Anything that is not approved by the TDI Club powers is snake oil. They can not possibly work.

 

[EvilBunny]

that is alll i wanted to hear guys thanks a ton!!!

 

[10then34]

In the summer, there where a couple of people who where all gung-ho about it and bought the sales pitch. Nobody managed to post any useful data demonstrating it's efficacy in a TDI.

 

[Powder Hound]

OK, so where's the double-blind studies using statistical methods and reviewed results that would give a good start to proving the case? Never going to happen.

Fourdiesel has the correct term for this: technobabble. Besides the fact that their claims are unproved, many of their stated facts are untrue. Besides, diesel running under normal conditions without being in a rich cycle (heavy acceleration, if at all) don't have any unburned hydrocarbons in the tailpipe anyway. Some carbon in the form of soot, maybe, but the hydrocarbons are gone. Just a product of diesel engine characteristics to wit: high compression, excess oxygen.

If you follow this company long enough, and enough people believe the lies, then you will eventually find the FTC stepping in to relieve the fraud.

 

[wjdell]

But POWER HOUND - if its all burned up then the EGR is what -

I picked my lubricity additve, or snake oil, by research - The U.S. Patent #5,431,830 developed by Argonne, Boron CLS. Several companys use this patent. One was Evergreen and they make a product called Motor Silk diesel additve. PRI D is known for stabilizing only. I wish they had been part of the TEST, but were not. The oil company I get my fuel from uses only PRI D. I really have no idea who this company is, CA40. Could be like WD40 the 40th formula was the winner for them..

 

[wjdell]

I just looked at the site and it its kinda iffy.

Now here is the test data for lubricity for Motor Silk diesel additve
SPECIFICATIONS:
Lubricity (Falex B.O.T.D.) 195) — <.300
Lubricity (SL BOCLE) 5800 grams
Lubricity (HFRR at 60°) 0.165mm

 

[MayorDJQ]

All my UOA's show 0% soot which means les than .1%.

Are you sure this isn't the result of ULSD?

People on this site are always sceptical of magical additives making outrageous claims. A lot of the products on the shelves are gimicks. How about the electric turbos? Or the thing that goes in the intake tube to turn the incoming air into a tornado? These are things that go on the outside. When it comes to products that will be burnt or used internally bu the engine, TDIers are very sceptical. A while back there was someone trying to push a ceramic oil additive. I can't seem to locate the thread, but the course of the thread was very similar to this one. 95% of the posts said snake oil, no proof, etc., while the 5% defended the product, making the same comments: "If the TDIclub can't prove it, it must be snake oil." I think the thread eventually died.

 

[wjdell]

How many UOA's do you see and I mean every UOA show .00% soot. I have four, two 5k, and two 4k. My next two UOA's will be 6k. Maybe I am the only one getting ULSD. Of course ULSD plays a part but its a combination of factors that gives the result.

 

[mrGutWrench]

__. OK, now that the magic words have been uttered, it's time to wapp this product over the head with the Official North Carolina Reptile Bat!

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=26014&ppuser=10662

WARNING - Stay away from snakes and snake oil!

 

[dieselgeezer]

A little on the level snake oil might be good for the engine. Like other lipid extracts it might boost the lubricity and would probably burn ashless. I don't know what's in wjdell's snake oil, nor do I dispute his data. My point was that Ca-40 purports to contain calcium and it isn't a good idea to put anything with calcium (or any other metal for that matter) in it through the fuel system of a tdi. No matter how good a lubricant it is, it isn't going to be ashless.

 

[MayorDJQ]

How many UOA's do you see and I mean every UOA show .00% soot. I have four, two 5k, and two 4k. My next two UOA's will be 6k. Maybe I am the only one getting ULSD. Of course ULSD plays a part but its a combination of factors that gives the result.

Doesn't soot come from the sulphur in Diesel fuel?

If you're link to you UOA's is current your car has ~25k miles. At that mileage your car is practically brand new. You're also using high quality oils and ULSD. If you stopped using the CA40, you'd probably still have very low soot levels.

How much does this stuff cost anyway?

 

[wjdell]

When a company compares Joe's engine to Sam's engine I am not so sure. Evergreen could show actuall test data. They had science to back it up. As far as calcium there are probalby hundreds if not thousands of different types of Calcium. When you read CA40 site there is little they tell in the form of science. So I am leary about them, as far as Evergreen they have a impressive list of customers who use some form of product they sell, BP for one. Look at optilube site, they are not real descriptive of the chemical base yet they did very well in the lubricity test. I believe in the patent and so I tried the product. I got mine at half price 12 bottles for the price of six.

 

[wjdell]

I do not use CA40 - look again those lubricity specs are for Motor Sik diesel treatment. Silk

 

[10then34]

The perpetrators of this stuff have their panties in a bunch this week.

The North Dakota State University mechanical engineering department tested the stuff with a 4cyl John Deere diesel on a dyno. Big suprise, they didn't find any difference in hp or fuel consumption between diesel fuel with and without the additive.

The results have not been published but are available to NDSUs agricultural extension agents. The only publication about it is in ag-week, a regional ag business magazine:

http://www.agweek.com/

(plug 'ca40g' in the search feature. The archive doesn't give you a persistent link.)

Czernak the PR guy from the company (who has been a poster on TDIClub in the past) hastily tried to disprove the results with his usual mixture of techno babbel and obfuscation. Mouthpiece for this effort is the Ed Schultz radio show, carried on KFGO a regional AM station in Fargo (Ed Schultz is also a paid endorser for the product).

One aspect to this dustup is the local radio market in eastern ND/western MN. A number of stations as well as ag-week are owned by the Forum company. KFGO, the station Ed Schultz works for is independently owned. Over the years, there has been fierce competition between the two radio networks as well as hard feelings and recent lawsuits. Forum through its lackey ag-week 'attacking' one of KFGOs advertising clients is of course new fodder in the conspiracy theories surrounding some recent ownership and personnel changes in the Fargo radio market.

Little tid-bit in the ag-week article: If you want to market a fuel additive, you have to register it with the EPA to comply with the clean air act. Apparently, there is no such record of a registration for Ca40g....

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/web-addt.htm

 

[wjdell]

Told you their site looked a bit iffy

 

[10then34]

Told you their site looked a bit iffy

It is actually done in a very masterful way. They are pretty good in establishing a bond with their customer base by playing their folksy 'if the farmers use it, it must work' bit. They manage to make people believe that scientific tests (e.g. on a dyno) will be manipulated and that only 'real life experience' of 'real people' is what counts. If the product fails (-->doesn't show the hoped for effect), the customer is blamed for the failure (you have to know, this stuff not only has to go into the tank, no it also needs stirring/mixing/blending. The concentration used by the user is either too much or too many or a whole host of external factors can be blamed for the failure).

Anyone who has dealt with homeopathy or herbal medicine before will recognize the marketing strategy.

 

[dieselgeezer]

It doesn't matter much what the calcium compound is, it is still a calcium salt after you burn it. If EPA nixes Ca-40, they still have the rest of the periodic chart to work with: Mg-24, Sr-88, Ba-137 (oops, that one has already been banned from diesel fuel); Stabilize a little lithium grease in diesel fuel and call it Li-7; Add some soap and call it Na-23 or K-39. The possibilities are endless. And sad to say, P.T. Barnum's market is still eager to be fleeced.

 

[10then34]

Sent an email to the additive registration person at the EPA, haven't heard back from them yet....

 

[Fourdiesel]

that is alll i wanted to hear guys thanks a ton!!!

Oh, We're not done yet -- stay tuned!

 

[dieselgeezer]

Oh yes! Have you heard about the engine that burns water? And do you know that you can power your car with the earth's magnetic field? And there's cold fusion......Send me ten bucks and I'll share the secrets of all of these....But you have to promise that you won't tell anyone else.