Bye Bye Jetta!

[charredwallsofthedamned]

wow I am an admin on one of the larger enthusiast sites for another make that uses vbulletin and wow just wow that isn't good

 

[Jetta Knight]

I had an occasion to bring my 06 to the dealer today for a warranty interior issue. It was during lunch and the place was quiet. The service mgr and I had a nice casual conversation about, among other things, the HPFP problem. He said that he had seen one case in his dealership where the entire fuel system was replaced under warranty. In fact, he recently attended a meeting of service managers of nearby and neighboring states dealerships where the subject had been raised. Every one of the dealerships have had at least one case. I commented to him that this issue was going to kill the TDI unless VWOA gets ahead of it and does the right thing. He cited VWOA's proactive stance on the DSG and added that every one of the HPFP cases presented at the meeting was covered under warranty. I countered that statement with what I have read here and that, in fact, there was now a website dedicated to nothing but this issue. I directed him to the web addresses.

Fellows, this issue is bigger than we have previously thought. However, I will certainly be bringing my 09 to his attention should I suffer the dreaded HPFP fate.

 

[MacBuckeye]

Good stuff Jetta Knight! Thanks for posting your experience with that dealer. >gulp!<
Sometimes I think just by talking about it increases the odds of me having a HPFP issue. Zoiks!! The more we can expose and share this problem the better off we will be.

 

[mysql]

When I expressed concern about the HPFP, my local dealer said not to worry. He went on to state that they have had to fix several fuel systems but all were due to bad fuel. At the time I thought nothing of the comment, but if that is their normal determination for the problem, then I may want to avoid that dealership if I run into issues.

Honestly - I don't even care if VW warranties the HPFP system. What I want is a real fix for the problem. Getting the fuel system repaired under warranty is only a short term fix, and I didn't buy my TDI for short term.

Find the real cause, give us a real fix.

 

[raybo]

Questions:

Has anyone yet in the US gone over 60K miles on their CR TDi with no catastrophic problems?

Has Europe experienced the HPFP issue and if not, is it because the fuel is different than in the US? I would assume that we're all using the same Bosch pump.

Ray

 

[Bob S.]

I had an occasion to bring my 06 to the dealer today for a warranty interior issue. It was during lunch and the place was quiet. The service mgr and I had a nice casual conversation about, among other things, the HPFP problem. He said that he had seen one case in his dealership where the entire fuel system was replaced under warranty. In fact, he recently attended a meeting of service managers of nearby and neighboring states dealerships where the subject had been raised. Every one of the dealerships have had at least one case. I commented to him that this issue was going to kill the TDI unless VWOA gets ahead of it and does the right thing. He cited VWOA's proactive stance on the DSG and added that every one of the HPFP cases presented at the meeting was covered under warranty. I countered that statement with what I have read here and that, in fact, there was now a website dedicated to nothing but this issue. I directed him to the web addresses.

Fellows, this issue is bigger than we have previously thought. However, I will certainly be bringing my 09 to his attention should I suffer the dreaded HPFP fate.

Given your location, and speculating what the neighboring states might be, that I suspect is a pretty large number of dealerships & cars.

 

[Rod Bearing]

Questions:

Has anyone yet in the US gone over 60K miles on their CR TDi with no catastrophic problems?

Has Europe experienced the HPFP issue and if not, is it because the fuel is different than in the US? I would assume that we're all using the same Bosch pump.

Ray

My 09 is now in my daughters care, and it has just over 70 thousand on it now. Runs perfect.

People ought to be looking at the numbers of earlier TDI versions that have had fuel systems replaced/repaired for bad fuel.

This issue didn't just start with common rail.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

People ought to be looking at the numbers of earlier TDI versions that have had fuel systems replaced/repaired for bad fuel.

Not at all a common problem. Clogged fuel filters, yes, and IPs that die because someone put gasoline in the car. But otherwise rotary pump cars are not sensitive to fuel quality. There were some issues with leaking pumps after the switch to ULSD but these cars preceded the intro of that fuel in the US.

 

[gpshumway]

People ought to be looking at the numbers of earlier TDI versions that have had fuel systems replaced/repaired for bad fuel.

This issue didn't just start with common rail.

So where are the threads on destroyed fuel systems in VE and PD cars?

Why isn't risk of bad fuel covered in the TDI FAQ?

Why didn't Oilhammer mention destroyed fuel systems due to contaminated fuel in his "common problems" thread?

If you think people ought to be looking at the number of failures in older TDI versions why don't you supply a few examples? Where exactly should we be looking for these statistics you speak of?

As IndigoBlueWagon said, the problem was not at all common.

 

[MacBuckeye]

We are however, beginning to track the 09/10 HPFP and fuels system related problems. Please tell those people (members) you know that had problems to post here..... A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR) ..... ONLY 2009/2010 Fuel System Related Problems http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=277993

gpshumway's stated concern with the VE / PD engines is the same reason why we started the above mentioned thread for the CR 09's and 10's. I would prefer the original person post their data about their own car, but I may have to dig through all the posts and PM's to try and get more of the problems documented in this thread. I don't have a dog in this fight and hope I never do. I'm just willing to try and help gather and keep factual information in one locatoin to share with all the 09/10 owners.

 

[Dunno513]

As long as I feel comfortable that the manufacturer will step up and address the problem with the owner's best interests at heart, I will vote with my cash.

Fact... VW stopped trying to diagnose a shudder and rattle under load at 22k because in their word.. it was well documented. Replaced MAF, EGR Valve, Checked Flywheel for grease, changed in tank lift pump. Conditions still existed. Throwing parts didn't work so we waited.

Now... 70k 10k out of warranty. Rattle develops and shudder worsens. Clearly DMF. VW's stand. NO, warranty expired!

No discussion of what if that Flywheel was infact my shudder and rattle under load that appeared one day at 17k and has been slowly failing since. Not like it's a common problem or anything.

My story is similar to MANY others with regards to VW not willing to fix what is wrong and almost to the point of disregard to safety saying that conditions are normal.

VW and best interests stop at the showroom floor.

 

[_7_ TDI ™]

excellent read.
Tons of great point of views.

 

[Carl Ulli]

Thankyou DoctorDawg for the little note in your signature - that your 2009 Jetta has 45K and zero problems. We need more positives like that to get a good general view of the real situation out there.

 

[sycofiend71]

hey i traded my 06 in for a duramax chevy. I loved my TDI but i cant beat hauling 2300lbs and towing 10,000 lbs at the same time and still getting 15mpg. i get 25 unloaded. plus its 4x4!

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

hey i traded my 06 in for a duramax chevy. I loved my TDI but i cant beat hauling 2300lbs and towing 10,000 lbs at the same time and still getting 15mpg. i get 25 unloaded. plus its 4x4!

ALthough I understand why you may need the ability to haul and to pull things, I can't for the life of me think why you would need a 4X4 in Virginia. Yes I have traveled there many times.

 

[sycofiend71]

you do know that there is ice and snow here at times right? plus I am from ohio and it snows there.... alot.

 

[jbright]

Thankyou DoctorDawg for the little note in your signature - that your 2009 Jetta has 45K and zero problems. We need more positives like that to get a good general view of the real situation out there.

Coming up on 30000 miles. No problems yet. Car runs like a proverbial top. Today was cloudy, and the first day in a long time below 90 degrees. Drove around the city all afternoon with the windows down and topped 40 mpg. Can't complain about that.

 

[Tarbe]

Questions:

Has anyone yet in the US gone over 60K miles on their CR TDi with no catastrophic problems?

Has Europe experienced the HPFP issue and if not, is it because the fuel is different than in the US? I would assume that we're all using the same Bosch pump.

Ray

61,300 trouble-free miles and counting.........


Tim

 

[rjgagliano]

"Comedic"

Great thread, thanks for the laugh! The few cases of "preventative trade-ins" are quite comedic. OP, good luck with your Civic; I hope it serves you well.

Hey Pelican, you wouldn't think it is so "comedic" if your TDI just flat died in So. California traffic like ours with the grandkids in the car. The issue being the friggin high pressure fuel pump and a whole host of new parts as a result of the Bosh unit destroying itself. Hey, laugh on dude. Your sense of humor is kinda out of whack.

 

[Capacitor]

seems no reported issues in Canada yet, is it a US only problem?

I read the forums deeply before getting my '09 TDI
and saw very few mentions of issues
only one really serious was the start of dwiesels thread, and that was it.

I had my filter checked twice, at that time it was at 5k and there was nothing. then again at 10k and nothing again.

I'm in canada, and have been sifting the forums, and see absolutely no mention, not a single one, of a failure this side of the border.

personally I think bmw's are total crap (personal opinion), toyotas are ok, but have their issues. but I love the Jettas, and the TDIs

what really gets me is some of the comments, particularly some who say the ALH was the last "best" engine VW made, how comical! I mean, when I started here I had a Golf TDI with an ALH engine, and all I read was bad things about it, how I should have gotten this or that, or another year or whatever.

and here we are again.

but I've had zero problems (knock wood, etc) with my '09 jetta TDI
and I'm beginning to believe it's purely a US fuel supply/quality problem.

nothing has been reported in Canada, I've asked dealers, and guruas, there's been NOTHING, not even a rumor.

I seriously doubt VW can get the US fuel supply cleaned up, it takes the people, write/call your congress and NHTSA or whatever you have down there. otherwise I doubt anything will change.

btw there's a gas station group (initials P.C.) that waters down their fuel, has been for years, I know because I and others have had gassers damaged by their lousy fuel. and that's GAS not diesel! so if you think it's limited to your VWs, think again.
whenever I filled up with their gas, the car always ran rough, had problems, and very expensive repairs, with the mechanic always saying "water in the fuel"

so I only ever fuel up with stations I know and trust, the big trucker stations are great, even with the funny looks I sometimes get as the only car there....

So after everything I'm convinced those down south of the border have fuel quality problems and I might give a nod to a narrow manufacture problem window (restricted to a range of serial numbers) as seems to be the case.

that's probably it, it makes total sense. vw had a mfg problem on a range of serial #s, and at the same time, there's fuel quality issues at stations all over the place, so everything gets blamed on vw. that's patently unfair.

as the old saying goes, drive more, worry less...

 

[mysql]

I'm in canada, and have been sifting the forums, and see absolutely no mention, not a single one, of a failure this side of the border.

I recall reading about a failure in Canada. Someone had asked if he filled up in the united states. Didn't keep track of it, so not sure what the result was.

 

[D-Cell_Mekanick]

I believe it was stylinmama that had the failure in Canada, but could be wrong I'd have to go back and look to be certain.

EDIT: did a search for stylinmama heres the link to that failure: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=283364 looks like it may have been fuel contamination tho.

 

[Capacitor]

water and SAND (and "crap") in the fuel?
that's not the HFPF or vw's fault.

we never found out where they lived, but 200km from the nearest dealer and as they said "in the middle of nowhere"

my guess would be another fuel station watering down fuel, but sand... yikes!

also 1 failure in all of canada that we know of is nothing to get concerned about.

we've got to turn this discussion around into how do you fix the supply problems?

 

[jbright]

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year or two as the common rail fleet in the US ages and grows in numbers with the 2011/12 models. If the HPFP issue is really one of fuel quality/contamination (poor lubricity, water or gasoline contamination, etc) then the number of failures will continue to grow, because I don't see the fuel industry doing anything radical yet. The wild card is VW. They've had a year or so to contemplate the problem now, and they are the ONLY ones who truly know the scope of the problem and, most likely, the true cause and remedy. What will they choose to do about the HPFP failures, if anything? Who knows? We will be watching. . . . .

 

[GTIDan]

Dateline and the WSJ are soooo Twentieth Century. What VW (and many other corporations) need to understand is that they have lost exclusive control of messaging about their brands, due to the internet. Some smart guy somewhere right now is thinking about buying a TDI. He will Google "VW TDI" and end up here at TDIClub. He will read about all the FUD induced by VW's mismanagement of their brand and will decide to pass. He'll buy a nice, safe Subaru instead. VW misses another sale, and our resale values go down a couple more dollars. "But they're already selling all the TDIs they can make" I hear someone say. Don't you believe it for a minute; that would make them the only company on earth that doesn't ramp up capacity to meet sales opportunity.

Companies that want to retain the hard-won value of their brands in the internet age need to get out ahead of customer dissatisfaction, confusion, and fear and head 'em off at the pass. For what they spend on one TV advertising campaign they can make a LOT of customers happy by (for instance) extending (and honoring) warranty on parts that are triggering massive FUD. Then the guy who Googles "TDI" ends up here and finds everybody braggin' on their cars. He buys one. Ka-ching!

So if (note I say "if") there is even a numerically small problem with HPFPs choking on ULSD (bad or otherwise), a smart VW would:
* get out ahead of it and extend the warranty on the fuel system
* set some of their brilliant engineers on designing an early-warning 'water-in-fuel' sensor
* test the compatibility of fuel additives with the DPF and then
* issue clear advice for or against using a VW-approved fuel additive in the CRD

I realize this probably won't happen. VW hasn't proven to be a particularly marketing-savvy company. So maybe instead it ends up being the next Toyota: a company that kept its head in the sand until it totally lost control of its brand messaging, with consequences totaling in the billions of dollars. Where I work, the unofficial motto is "control the airwaves". Its the only way to go.

Say What??????. VW is right on the ass of Toyota to becoming the largest manufacturer of cars on the planet and you think they have no clue. That's funny. You guys are living a bubble, my friends.

Just because you screw up your car by tinkering with it all the time doesn't mean VW has to fix your problems. OK, perhaps some of you actually had/have a problem. ALL cars have problems. Don't bag a company because some dealer is wise to you.

TDIs are desired by people all over this planet and there are thousands of us who sincerely love our car/s. Don't like the TDI go by a Prius.....I mean, hey, Toyotas never have problems..........right?

 

[wny_pat]

Capacitor,
Retired now, but we use to haul diesel and gas up your way in Ontario! And last I knew they were still hauling it up there.

 

[meerschm]

my 2009 (an early one) has almost 90k on it. had a leaky oil line and a leaky heat exchanger which put oil in the coolant. other than that nothing wrong. drives like a dream (as long as you don't bend the wheels)

I use the right oil, and just put ulsd in her (wherever it is cheap)

I stopped by the dealer yesterday to let them install the recall fuel line clips, and use a coupon they provided for free wheel balance and rotate.

I have original brakes, still plenty of life on them, when I replaced the tires, I went to the dealer and purchased three, and used the factory spare. one of these had a puncture too close to the sidwall (screw) and the dealer tire deal included road hazard, so they replaced it for about $15

i chatted with the service agent, who said they had only changed one HPFP, and that was for noise. no fuel contamination. also told a good story about a woman who whined so much at the dirty oil after an oil change, they changed it again, let her watch, and convinced her it turned black in a very short time.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Don't know if this is true with an '09 but I noticed that my '12 Golf has a full size Conti spare that's different than the OE tires, and has a T instead of an H speed rating. I guess they want you to keep it in the trunk.

 

[meerschm]

Don't know if this is true with an '09 but I noticed that my '12 Golf has a full size Conti spare that's different than the OE tires, and has a T instead of an H speed rating. I guess they want you to keep it in the trunk.

my original spare was identical. Bridgestone Turanza 91H

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The Golf comes with 17s and has a 15" spare, which may be why. I put 15s on my car and had a Conti tire get a hole in the sidewall, so I was hoping to use the spare. Not happening.