Buyback Number Discrepency

[MBellantone]

Hey All, I thought I'd pass this along to the group.
I got my offer today from VW and the numbers they presented in the Charts we all know and love do not match with the offer. Instead of re-writing the whole thing I'll just copy and paste the email I sent to "Instamotor", one of the two on-line buyback calculator sites I've used recently.
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"Hey Instamotor,
Great site you have here. I’ve been using it for months to track the buyback of my 2014 Jetta Sportwagen TDI.
I just now received my “offer” from VW and there was a difference of $840. No, of course, it wasn’t $840 more than the estimator predicted; it was less. I also referenced another site here for their calculator https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/ and it was $480; again less.
The portal through which the offer came made no mention of how they figured the numbers and what to do if you don’t agree with them so I called the “Claims” hotline. The information they had for dealing with this question is that the previously released VW calculation tables were only an “estimate” and that they were never intended to be exact. I then asked the consultant what is to be done if we’re not happy with it and she said that you can either accept it or not but there are no adjustments except to lower your buyback price if you go over your allotted mileage allowance.
She offered to refer me to a “claims specialist” (which I thought I was already speaking) to and she told me someone would get back to me in 3-5 business days.
My thought is that I shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth and just be done with it."
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I'm curious if others found that their calculations were off and if so by the same percentage.

 

[Mr. Furious]

If I ever get an offer it will be interesting to see if it matches my calculations. I have an Excel spreadsheet based on the FTC attachments for value, restitution, and mileage adjustments, and I sanity-checked it against one of the calculators. The numbers match exactly.

 

[MBellantone]

I'm assuming many of you have gone through the process so far, at least to get the "final" offer from VW.

Did they match your exceed your figures that I'm sure you all calculated (at least 1,000 while waiting for all this to go down?)

 

[Freeze Plug]

the calculator is likely correct, and VW is likely incorrect. There have been multiple instances of the offers being incorrect and different from the actual dollar amount at the time of drop-off at the dealer. This is likely based on tentative mileage and return month that you originally selected when you initially submitted your claim that has probably changed

 

[Mr. Furious]

the calculator is likely correct, and VW is likely incorrect. There have been multiple instances of the offers being incorrect and different from the actual dollar amount at the time of drop-off at the dealer

So what's the recourse here? I mean other than the TDIclub company line of "shut up and be glad you're getting anything at all, you whiny millenial?"

 

[DanB36]

The real question is whether the payment is correct--thus far, it appears it has been.

 

[Freeze Plug]

So what's the recourse here? I mean other than the TDIclub company line of "shut up and be glad you're getting anything at all, you whiny millenial?"

I haven't gotten to this point yet, but was told that you will have the opportunity to input current mileage at the time that you select your turn in date. The value should be current to what you input at that step rather the initial estimate.

the offer states this explicitly:

"Please note that the total payment may change based on updated mileage at the time of your buyback appointment"

 

[k1xv]

So what's the recourse here? I mean other than the TDIclub company line of "shut up and be glad you're getting anything at all, you whiny millenial?"

The Settlement tables and formulae govern. If the offer letter differs, either upward or downward, its in error or based on assumptions that no longer hold.

As the calculators model the settlement, they are much more likely to produce the correct number. So I would only complain if the payment figure at the turn in disagrees with the calculator. What was in the offer letter is irrelevant.

 

[MBellantone]

the calculator is likely correct, and VW is likely incorrect. There have been multiple instances of the offers being incorrect and different from the actual dollar amount at the time of drop-off at the dealer. This is likely based on tentative mileage and return month that you originally selected when you initially submitted your claim that has probably changed

I'm not sure how this can be. You can see the figures here.

2014 TDI / Manual Trans / Pano / Elect Seats / Nav / Alum Wheels

25,150 miles in Sept 2015
42,000 miles now

$27,587 Base
(-) $900 No DSG
(+) $360 Seats
(+) $480 Wheels
(+) $690 Pano (eastern region)
(+) $750 Nav
Mileage Neutral
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Total: 28,967. (What i come up with according to their own number charts)

VW's offer is $28,127.

Let me know if i'm nuts.

What if their number was $4000 different? Should we still just be glad we're getting any money?

 

[newbeetleman]

I'm assuming many of you have gone through the process so far, at least to get the "final" offer from VW.

Did they match your exceed your figures that I'm sure you all calculated (at least 1,000 while waiting for all this to go down?)

Nope, mine was off by roughly $800, The total offer (before any deductions) was less than any document I found says it should have been.

BUT my 2009 was more than I expected, according to the offer letter. So they kind of equal out.

 

[MBellantone]

The Settlement tables and formulae govern. If the offer letter differs, either upward or downward, its in error or based on assumptions that no longer hold.

As the calculators model the settlement, they are much more likely to produce the correct number. So I would only complain if the payment figure at the turn in disagrees with the calculator. What was in the offer letter is irrelevant.

k1xv: i need to respectfully disagree... The offer letter, if accepted by you is what you are signing and notarizing. Saying the letter is irrelevant would be irresponsible and making you liable to be laughed at that utterance if said outloud. How could it be irrelevant?

 

[DanB36]

I'm not sure how this can be. You can see the figures here.
2014 TDI / Manual Trans / Pano / Elect Seats / Nav / Alum Wheels
25,150 miles in Sept 2015
42,000 miles now
$27,587 Base
(-) $900 No DSG
(+) $360 Seats
(+) $480 Wheels
(+) $690 Pano (eastern region)
(+) $750 Nav
Mileage Neutral
---------------------
Total: 28,967. (What i come up with according to their own number charts)
VW's offer is $28,127.
Let me know if i'm nuts.

Not "nuts", but you aren't figuring the numbers quite right. Alloy wheels are only a value add on the Value edition, which your car isn't. And I'm not sure about the seats--my JSWs have power recline, but otherwise manual seats, and I don't think that gets the adjustment for "power seats". If you take those out, https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/ gives exactly the same result as your offer.

 

[MBellantone]

sorry for multiple posts but to continue with "K1xv"'s comment of "So I would only complain if the payment figure at the turn in disagrees with the calculator."

If you show up for your appointment for the buyback, with your signed and notarized paperwork, do you expect that you will be handed more money than what is stated in the paperwork? If they don't hand you what your calculator says at the turnover and it's $850 less, as mine says, what is your recourse?

Perhaps i'm confused.

Their offer, is, well, their offer.

 

[k1xv]

They are supposed to be paying in accordance with the Settlement. Their guesstimate in the offer letter is based on assumptions (which they do not spell out), and contains a specific disclaimer that the final number may be different.

If what you said were true, then an uninformed TDi owner who signed and uploaded an offer letter that was too low would be bound to the lower figure, as that is what was offered, and that is what was accepted. Can you imagine the reaction here if VW took that position?

 

[MBellantone]

Not "nuts", but you aren't figuring the numbers quite right. Alloy wheels are only a value add on the Value edition, which your car isn't. And I'm not sure about the seats--my JSWs have power recline, but otherwise manual seats, and I don't think that gets the adjustment for "power seats". If you take those out, https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/ gives exactly the same result as your offer.

Wow, Dan, i think you hit on something. I've always questioned those very two "options". I didn't think that the SW was offered with any more power options on the seats and I DO have allow wheels, I guess I have the distinctions wrong.

thanks!

 

[DanB36]

k1xv: i need to respectfully disagree...

Feel free to be respectfully incorrect. The problem with the offer letters is that they're based on an assumption that you'll turn in the car at some particular time, with some particular mileage, and neither of those is stated. So far, the examples that have been given of discrepancies between the offer and the tables/calculators have resulted from issues with mileage adjustments, though there can also be issues with misreading the equipment adjustments.

 

[k1xv]

sorry for multiple posts but to continue with "K1xv"'s comment of "So I would only complain if the payment figure at the turn in disagrees with the calculator."

If you show up for your appointment for the buyback, with your signed and notarized paperwork, do you expect that you will be handed more money than what is stated in the paperwork? If they don't hand you what your calculator says at the turnover and it's $850 less, as mine says, what is your recourse?

Perhaps i'm confused.

Their offer, is, well, their offer.

I believe if that were to happen, they call a "higher authority" supervisor to try to get a resolution. If there is no resolution, or the resolution is not to your satisfaction, I think I would take back my keys and title, not complete the sell back that day, go home, try to get the right figure resolved through class counsel, and then, if things seemed to be straightened out, reschedule.

I do not recall anyone so far being paid less than the settlement tables amount, but I can be wrong.

 

[Redcatcher]

Joined at the Hip

Just amazing.....my calculation for my 2014 Jetta Sportwagen TDi SE model is to the penny of your $840. I see this discrepancy pop up throughout the forum. I have the SE model with auto, power moon-roof, power seat and aluminum tires in the New England area. So naturally I phoned VW in Michigan to try and determine what was causing the difference, obviously in VW's favor. I also used the website calculators and my own Excel spreadsheet based off the settlement PDFs and in all instances confirmed the higher amount. The VW rep indicated that the amount was what the VW "auditors" came up with, the amount was non-negotiable but he would have someone higher up the food chain call me.....yes you guessed it, crickets. In my calculation, I used the standard gas mileage amount of $1950 based upon 22000 miles as of January. What I found amusing was that the "auditors" also managed to compute a different loan settlement amount (also in VW's favor) despite the fact that the loan is with VW Finance. You would think that the right hand would know what the left hand is doing....I guess not. If I wait another month or so and minimize the mileage, I believe that I will benefit from a higher mileage amount of $2460 rather than the $1950. But given the above, who knows. Obviously I am not signing or notarizing any offer sheet until this discrepancy is resolved. An acquaintance of mine sells VW's on the left coast and he has numerous stories of folks trying to drop off their TDi's and going postal when the poor sales reps cannot help them. Supposedly there is a VW Ambassador assigned by VW Corporate to work at each dealership and assist in the handover but they are like Sgt. Schultz: they see nothing, hear nothing, know nothing when it comes to dealing with the dealership sales folks so needless to say there is a little agida floating around on the sales floor. Not a good view in my opinion and I could see where this fire drill could sour one on ever purchasing another VW vehicle. I will adopt a wait and see attitude since I am in no hurry. I will continue to monitor the forum as to the latest and greatest updates but will not hold my breath from the bunker in Auburn Hills, Michigan.

 

[DanB36]

Paragraphs would really help people read and understand your post.

A couple of points, though:

1. Your car doesn't have power seats--power recline doesn't get the value add for power seats.
2. Alloy wheels are not a value add on a JSW, only on the Jetta "value edition" sedan.
3. The rest of the discrepancy you're seeing (if any is left) is likely from a different assumption about mileage and turn-in date than what you're making.

Your actual payment at turn-in will be based on the actual appropriate value adjustments for the factory-installed equipment on your car, the mileage at turn-in, and the date of turn-in. It may be more than you offer letter says, or it may be less, depending mostly on mileage adjustments.

Edit: And yes, it would be helpful if the offer letter broke out how they arrived at the numbers they used--what equipment they based the value on, what mileage they assumed, and when they assumed the car would be returned. The most recent letter I got is slightly better in that regard than the first one, but they could still improve a lot in this regard.

 

[PacCoastFwy923]

The offer letter is pretty clear: "Estimated Amount VW will pay you / the actual amount VW will pay you may differ..."

Don't let that be a reason to drag your feet returning the letter. Everyone seems to be getting paid accurately per the settlement tables, based on the year, options, mileage, and turn-in month.

 

[dmarsingill]

The offer letter is pretty clear: "Estimated Amount VW will pay you / the actual amount VW will pay you may differ..."

Don't let that be a reason to drag your feet returning the letter. Everyone seems to be getting paid accurately per the settlement tables, based on the year, options, mileage, and turn-in month.

Exactly.......and mine was more. The restitution was bumped up. This was addressed on another post.

Donald

 

[CT_White_SRT]

DanB36 seems to be always on point.
I think it is only for people with 15s like PacCoastFwy923 and I that have different numbers from calculator (and yes, I am referring to final buyback nunbers, not offer letter).

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk

 

[PacCoastFwy923]

I think it is only for people with 15s like PacCoastFwy923 and I that have different numbers from calculator (and yes, I am referring to final buyback nunbers, not offer letter).

Yeah, except that for some reason our Passat didn't have that *estimated - check back in July disclaimer that your Golf, the Audi A3, and some of the other 2015 models had. No idea why.

 

[Redcatcher]

Dan, thank you very much for clarification......when I back out the power seat and alloy wheels (total amount of $840), it then does tie out to the VW buyback amount knowing that mileage and loan payoff numbers will change.

Who would have known that power incline is NOT a power seat.

Appreciate your setting me back on the straight and narrow. The settlement PDFs are not clear on those 2 options and the VW offer document just provides the 2 amounts (vehicle return and additional restitution) without any detail as to how they arrived at those numbers.

Again, thank you.

 

[k1xv]

k1xv: i need to respectfully disagree... The offer letter, if accepted by you is what you are signing and notarizing. Saying the letter is irrelevant would be irresponsible and making you liable to be laughed at that utterance if said outloud. How could it be irrelevant?

It says right in the letter that it is subject to further adjustment. If you accept the offer, you also accept this provision. There is no reason to give an owner turning in a car anything more, or less, than what is specified in the Settlement.