BRM w/PD 140 Turbo and 150 Injectors

[Sootman]

If anyone wants to try out an upgrade to this i have 2 'sizes' bigger, 210hp or 240 capable!! bolt on too!!

Ry,
Are the upgrades turbos or nozzles?

 

[ryanp]

Turbo, I can PM you details if you like

 

[Sootman]

Turbo, I can PM you details if you like

I'm good for now, thanks.

 

[munisign]

PD 140 Turbo Install

Sootman, I was in Madison Wi with Jason at his shop yesterday, and had the TB, Cam (lifters were dished 1-2 mm after only 83,000mi-we should all band together and have a class action just to recover the labor and parts-inexcusable), PD140 Turbo install, and ID Downipipe installed (nice looking piece!). After driving the 125 miles home I think I have developed the dreaded EGR Flapper valve bushing leak! I think the extra boost of the Garrett pushed the old valve over the edge. Should I replace or repair it, or delete it because with the bigger Garrett I shouldn't have manifold pressure problems causing boost spike and creep, that we have with the old stock Borg-Warner Turbo? As soon as I get the EGR valve system problem squared away I'll try to tune it on a dyno-jet with the stock injectors so we can get some apples to oranges hp/torque figures. Right now with the stock injectors, RC1 stock turbo DSG map, and 2.5"downpipe into the stock exhaust back (with resonator and back muffler), if I had to guess, I'd say I might be around 150-155hp and 270 ft/lbs at the wheels-maybe a little more. Even with a sick EGR it is still a VERY INTERESTING DRIVE! Can't wait to get some injectors on it with the proper tune from Jeff. Thanks for all your help
munisign

 

[double rl]

Interesting reading and lots left to conjecture. I really like to see some solid numbers from a non-Mustang dyno.
I hope double rl will post a dyno soon.

I will get it to the dyno before long. I'm at 12k miles on the new turbo now and it still runs great. Just pops IC pipes off from time to time. Really need to upgrade. I did switch out my exhaust to 2.5" straight pipe from the turbo back. A little loud at time but not bad. Very curious what the numbers will be.

 

[Sootman]

Sootman, I was in Madison Wi with Jason at his shop yesterday, and had the TB, Cam (lifters were dished 1-2 mm after only 83,000mi-we should all band together and have a class action just to recover the labor and parts-inexcusable), PD140 Turbo install, and ID Downipipe installed (nice looking piece!). After driving the 125 miles home I think I have developed the dreaded EGR Flapper valve bushing leak! I think the extra boost of the Garrett pushed the old valve over the edge. Should I replace or repair it, or delete it because with the bigger Garrett I shouldn't have manifold pressure problems causing boost spike and creep, that we have with the old stock Borg-Warner Turbo? As soon as I get the EGR valve system problem squared away I'll try to tune it on a dyno-jet with the stock injectors so we can get some apples to oranges hp/torque figures. Right now with the stock injectors, RC1 stock turbo DSG map, and 2.5"downpipe into the stock exhaust back (with resonator and back muffler), if I had to guess, I'd say I might be around 150-155hp and 270 ft/lbs at the wheels-maybe a little more. Even with a sick EGR it is still a VERY INTERESTING DRIVE! Can't wait to get some injectors on it with the proper tune from Jeff. Thanks for all your help
munisign

Tough call on the EGR. I pulled mine when the turbo went in just in case it would be problematic. With RC 1+ on my car I got 140 HP and 238 ft/lbs on a conservative dyno with no other mods. I might suggest that you see what the car is like after you decide what to do about the EGR valve and a re-tune. You may want to consider using your stock injectors with the upgrade from DBW. Ask Jason about this, he's more knowledgable about his services. Getting the PD 150 injectors was a hassle and expensive. But I must say the power is there and the car is very smooth to drive.

Let us know how you make out. Good luck.

 

[Sootman]

I will get it to the dyno before long. I'm at 12k miles on the new turbo now and it still runs great. Just pops IC pipes off from time to time. Really need to upgrade. I did switch out my exhaust to 2.5" straight pipe from the turbo back. A little loud at time but not bad. Very curious what the numbers will be.

So far my IC pipes haven't been a problem but they sure were on my 2001, popped off all the time. Looking forward to see how it goes. I have about 5-8K now on the turbo and between that the injectors and cam things seem to be settling in.

 

[A5INKY]

...Just pops IC pipes off from time to time. Really need to upgrade...

That's strange. I have been running 29 PSI for about 30k miles and 25 PSI for about 15K before that and have been able to keep the stock IC pipes on once I got a good cold side connector to the turbo (different turbo that what you all are running). Now that I have the tune a d bugs all worked out, been really reliable.

 

[maloosheck]

That's exactly where I wanted to be when I got the car. Thanks for the guidance what I need. What clutch do you have in your car?

 

[TDikook]

you cant go wrong with a South Bend clutch.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I believe we had South Bend make up a Stage 2 Endurance clutch for his DMF.

 

[Sootman]

That's exactly where I wanted to be when I got the car. Thanks for the guidance what I need. What clutch do you have in your car?

What IndigoBlue said. It's aSouth Bend Stage 2 Endurance using the DMF. Very smooth and nearly as light as stock.

 

[maloosheck]

It's aSouth Bend Stage 2 Endurance using the DMF.

I have an OEM Sachs SMF... Wonder if it can handle this tq...

 

[Sootman]

Dunno. But you could have some fun finding out I don't seem to be able to post this full sized. Just go to the link and click on the photo there. This was done on a much hotter day with very poor fuel.

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The overall curves are as good as ever.

 

[cevans]

The overall curves are as good as ever.

Lets not talk about your curves. Though with 10k already on the setup I think you drive too much!

If one wants to go through the work of doing a PD140 and tunes the EGR cooler should get removed as the flapper-valve inside the cooler is problematic, especially under heavier loads.

 

[TDI817]

I really like what you have done with your car. Id really like to do the exact same thing with a few variations such as Malone tuning, dynamic egr control and dynamic idle control.

I have a few questions. When you replaced your cam shaft did you use OEM cam, or a colt stage 2 cam? I am also wondering why you switched to the PD150 injectors after buying used injectors? Were the used injectors PD150's as well? Im considering buying used BEW injectors with bigger nozzles and then getting them calibrated. Im also curious why you went with a south bend stage 2 clutch with a Dual mass flywheel? Would a single mass flywheel be better/cheaper?

The PD140 turbo is also something I'm looking at. I'm only concerned that it would be almost maxed out at 180hp. Have you done research into a custom intake for a larger turbo and potential cost?

Im looking into JS performance to have this work done. Where did you have your work done?

Thanks. -Bret

 

[Sootman]

I really like what you have done with your car. Id really like to do the exact same thing with a few variations such as Malone tuning, dynamic egr control and dynamic idle control.

I have a few questions. When you replaced your cam shaft did you use OEM cam, or a colt stage 2 cam? I am also wondering why you switched to the PD150 injectors after buying used injectors? Were the used injectors PD150's as well? Im considering buying used BEW injectors with bigger nozzles and then getting them calibrated. Im also curious why you went with a south bend stage 2 clutch with a Dual mass flywheel? Would a single mass flywheel be better/cheaper?

The PD140 turbo is also something I'm looking at. I'm only concerned that it would be almost maxed out at 180hp. Have you done research into a custom intake for a larger turbo and potential cost?

Im looking into JS performance to have this work done. Where did you have your work done?

Thanks. -Bret

Bret,
I went with an OEM cam, I wasn't looking for a Dyno Queen. The used injectors I got were PD 150's but I did replace them with new. I figure that the car is good for at least 250K more so I didn't want to have to swap out the injectors again. I do think the BRM (stock) injectors with new nozzles will be interesting to see. I know of one member who is planning to use a set DBW has calibrated with new nozzles then he'll dyno and we can see the numbers.

I used the OEM dual mass flywheel and had So. Bend resurface it so that I could use it in combination with their Stage II Endurance clutch. It's very smooth and nearly as light as stock but holds much more. Whether or not a single mass FW is cheaper or better I'm not sure. I just did what made sense to me at the time.

I wonder why you'd assume the PD 140 would be maxed out at 180 HP. There's a lot more I could do to increase the power of my car such as porting the head, using double valve springs and a more aggressive tune from RocketChip and more. I would easily imagine if you were willing to spend the money you could be over 200 HP with that turbo HOWEVER!! I'm no expert and don't guarantee this is accurate. It's only a somewhat Educated Guess on my part. As far as a custom intake and bigger turbo I've learned to like smaller turbos as they tend to spool much faster and although they won't give the upmost in HP they make very drivable cars. They are also little torque monsters as a result and the torque is in the RPM range I use on the road.

Look around the site here and you can learn a lot from everyone's experiences.

 

[bquick]

Pulled the BW today. Tomorrow the PD140 goes in along with a 3 bar MAP.

There's tools all over the garage.

 

[bquick]

I've got to add, I spent as much time getting the oil supply line out and the new one in as about everything else. PITA

 

[Sootman]

I've got to add, I spent as much time getting the oil supply line out and the new one in as about everything else. PITA

Yeah, it's like a Chinese puzzle. Hope you enjoy the new setup.

 

[bquick]

Turbo installed and on stock injectors for about another week. Nice power boost over the Malone 1.5 tune. It's much smoother and smokes a lot less.

I'll post after I get the injectors installed, ASZ bodies with 1043 nozzles.

 

[TDI817]

Until I re-read this thread I thought you had PD150 injectors with larger nozzles. Im not sure why I assumed that. However I know you bought them new. I am searching for used PD150 injectors to save on cost, although Im concerned about the quality and reliability. But just to clarify the PD150 injectors with stock nozzles will produce 300ft/tq?? Thanks

 

[ryanp]

I've had good results in all but one case with used PD150 injectors

we see stock PD150 injectors with 230bhp and 340lbs+ often.

 

[dieselpower04]

I've had good results in all but one case with used PD150 injectors

we see stock PD150 injectors with 230bhp and 340lbs+ often.

True story My dynos agree

 

[Sootman]

Until I re-read this thread I thought you had PD150 injectors with larger nozzles. Im not sure why I assumed that. However I know you bought them new. I am searching for used PD150 injectors to save on cost, although Im concerned about the quality and reliability. But just to clarify the PD150 injectors with stock nozzles will produce 300ft/tq?? Thanks

Yep, stock PD 150 injectors with stock nozzles.

 

[TDI817]

Any issues with higher egt's due to a longer injection cycle?

 

[ryanp]

The 180bhp that the PD140 Turbo is pushing is nowhere near maxing the PD150 Injectors (we have had 230bhp with safe durations) so EGTs won't be an issue. They are not even an issue at 230bhp anyway.

Cheers!

Ry

 

[munisign]

Sootman, got the stock PD100 injectors back from Pete with the Bosio 800 nozels. Went to Matt Whitbread's GTG 7/28. Got there a day earlier so matt could install the injectors and set the injector stroke. He is one fine diesel performance engineer. He will be missed in Ohio. I think he is at the fore front of custom turbo (single & twin) installations. Michigan is lucky to have him call that home now! Jeff was there and spent a lot of time tuning both the DSG and the Engine, making the car absolutely perfect. I now know what you mean when you said it puts a smile on your face you can't wipe off. I had a chance to drive the car friday after the injectors were installed, and what a big difference in response and power those were, but the real quantum leap was after Jeff's tune. I never knew a BRM could pull so strong all the way to 5,000 RPM! Wow, 100MPH comes so fast. Now I know why you were talking about stouter valve springs. I will dyno it when I get back from a trip in a few weeks. The torque comes on just as fast as the stock BW turbo, but there is so much more of it, and it stays and stays. Jeff tweaked the dsg to shift very fast. Also, I got 5 MPG better on the way home (all interstate), those big nozzels really work .
munisign

 

[TDI817]

Munisign sounds like you’re having lots of fun. I've been working on the same setup. I can’t wait to have my BRM tuned up. Yesterday my BEW injectors & Race 783's arrived in the mail. I already have my PD140 turbo, 2.5" downpipe, just waiting on my Franko6 stage 2 cam. SBC stage 2 & 14pound single mass flywheel is being installed today. Perhaps I should be looking into stouter valve springs??

 

[dieselpower04]

Munisign sounds like you’re having lots of fun. I've been working on the same setup. I can’t wait to have my BRM tuned up. Yesterday my BEW injectors & Race 783's arrived in the mail. I already have my PD140 turbo, 2.5" downpipe, just waiting on my Franko6 stage 2 cam. SBC stage 2 & 14pound single mass flywheel is being installed today. Perhaps I should be looking into stouter valve springs??

Not needed unless your are pushing 30+ psi boost