Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standards

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Hey SUNRG, I just got back from Roanoke. Stayed at 'Hotel Roanoke' right there down town. I saw a blue golf TDI, wondered if it was yours. It had a small circular label under the "Golf" symbol. You? As I suspected, the weekend flew past, no time for a ride.......nice weather though.

But I digress (sorry for stealing the thread for a moment).....so there are only two companies that sell the 507 in the US. Motul and Elf, right? So which should I choose, and who can I buy it from?

Thanks!!
my Golf is "blue anthracite" (dark grey) and it always has a bra on the front - so most likely not me. we'll have to ride next time you're out here.

Motul does not yet make a 504/507 oil, but i'm sure they will soon. the only 504/507 currently in north america is Elf Solaris LLX 5w-30.

from 4 posts up
...

 

SUNRG

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Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

I just placed my order for 6 Liters from turbofrogperformance I can't wait to pull an oil analysis on the sample after 10,000 miles.
cool. just remeber that the starting TBN is 5.8 because 507 oils use an additive technology that replaces TBN. US labs will not be familiar with this technology and may say something like "TBN is uncommonly low" which would be accurate, but disregard TBN and focus on wear rates. i'm confident you'll be very pleased with what comes back.

because no UOA lab in the US has tested an oil formulation like 504/507, be sure to also send a small (4oz.) unused reference sample to them as well as your used sample.
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

hey DD, do you when Mobil ESP will hit the NA shores?
 

dieseldorf

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Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

I don't, sorry. Perhaps a quik note to Exxon/Mobil will reveal some info...
 

mannytranny

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Joined
Oct 14, 2003
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CA
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02 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Just bought 10 litres......owch

Does 15k OCIs sound unreasonable?

Im running B40, if that changes anything.
 

dieseldorf

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Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Manny, how 'bout this: (I hope you can get a sample of virgin oil for analysis) Since we know nothing about this product, why not pull a sample at 12k miles (don't drain) and send it in so we can see how it's doing. Make your decision to travel farther based upon facts, not guesswork.

Does that make sense?
 

mannytranny

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CA
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02 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

12k miles will take me over a year.......

What does a sample-send-in cost?
 

dieseldorf

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Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Oh, you should probably be changing the oil 1X per year - - I thought you were doing big driving.

Based upon that, isn't the D1 ($20/5qts.) a superior solution for you?? (Do you really need to spend the BIG $$ for the fancy oil?)

The sampling kits are around $16 each, IIRC...check in with forum brother AndyH.
 

mannytranny

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Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Location
CA
TDI
02 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, I currently run D1 in the 02 TDI, but my sister just bought an 04 PD. I will be changing the oil in it for her. I just want to get both cars on the same oil to simplify it all. I dont mind spending an extra 40 bucks a year for an oil that is better anyway.
 

DrewD

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, my 6 liters of Elf Elf Solaris LLX SAE 5W-30 arrived this afternoon and has been put into my 04 TDI. I plan on topping off my tank with about 9 gallons of B20 to the D2 in my tank and will put about 500 miles on her next week. I'll let you know if my fuel economy improves or not. I'd be happy with a 1mpg increase in fuel economy.

Sunrg, I hope this stuff is designed for the PD engine. If not, I'm gonna pay a visit to VA and borrow your camshaft in the middle of the night :)
 

tdisedanman

Veteran Member
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Apr 21, 2005
Location
So Florida
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Ex 2005 Passat, TDI and ex 2005.5 Jetta TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standards

So, I am confused. I was talking to VWOA last week and they told me the 505.01 is still the choice for the A5 TDI Jetta. Who is correct? Please PM me and help straighten this confusion out.
 

dieseldorf

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Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standards

Who is correct?

They don't know what 506.01 or 507.00 is so they can't talk about it. These two oils are 100% suitable for use in a PD. (End of discussion)
 

SUNRG

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Location
Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, my 6 liters of Elf Elf Solaris LLX SAE 5W-30 arrived this afternoon and has been put into my 04 TDI. I plan on topping off my tank with about 9 gallons of B20 to the D2 in my tank and will put about 500 miles on her next week. I'll let you know if my fuel economy improves or not. I'd be happy with a 1mpg increase in fuel economy.

Sunrg, I hope this stuff is designed for the PD engine. If not, I'm gonna pay a visit to VA and borrow your camshaft in the middle of the night :)
drew, i can't believe you put that stuff in your PD - are you nuts!


if it ain't PD approved, my cam will be shot too, as i'm due for an oil change in the next couple weeks and i'll be putting Elf Solaris LLX 5w-30 in my Golf. maybe you can snag mannytranny's sister's cam before he gets the 507.00 in her ride


[no worries though, it's extra-super PD approved.]
 

danix

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Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

504/507 supercedes the 505.01 spec but is possibly not approved by VWOA. If you have a problem, you will have to fight and prove that the oil does meet 505.01 spec, which is not difficult since they accept that in Europe.

I do have the Solaris LLX in stock and in fact the first few customers got free shipping because I hadn't fully set up the product yet in my system.
 

DrewD

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

I have not driven the car much since I put the oil in. The weather here has been gorgeous this weekend and I put 200 miles on my convertible which unfortunately only gets 20 mpg but is a lot of fun to drive. I wish I won the lottery so I could stick a 2.0 liter TDI in my vert.
 

dlai

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The Insane Asylum Known As CA
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2005 Passat, Stonehenge Gray, 2002 Black Golf 5M
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, I brought my PD Passat a few weeks ago and it's already time for the 10k oil change. So I just ordered some Elf Excellium Solaris LLX 5w30 504.00/507.00 from Danix's website.

This is a great thread by the way, Dorf. Plus, I'm very impressed by all the work SUNRG has done.
 

GCMarx

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Shoes, the bus, the T
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Scott at Sabre-Chem sent me a quick note to indicate that they also have the Solaris LLX. I'm not sure about price posting etiquette, so I won't say how much it is, but either an email to Scott (scott@sabrechem.com) or a PM to me will get you that information.
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Does the new 507.00 standard give the same fuel economy as the 506.01?

I don't believe that will be the case. 506.01 specifically claims "up to 10% fuel consumption reduction". I have seen no such claims for the new 504/507 oils.

(more dicussion about this 10 posts up...)
 

DrewD

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, I have about 400 miles on the oil right now and here are in initial observations:

1. Idle noise is slightly louder
2. Vibration at idle no differenced felt
3. Acceleration no difference felt
4. Fuel economy: I don't think it'll be a statistically significant difference. My fuel guage is pretty much where it was with the 505.01 after this amount of mileage.

I'll have definite fuel economy figures this weekend and I'll be sure to pass them along.
 

diesel_smoke

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Mar 3, 2005
Location
Indiana
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Jetta, 2001, Deep Blue
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Would you please list the following on this oil? Thanks you

HTHS
Vis @ 100 C/F
Vis @ 40 C/F
Viscosity Index
Pour Point C/F
Flash Point C/F

If you have these answers for 506.01 & 507 this would be excellent to compair. Would be interesting discussion on HTHS and fuel economy/engine wear.

If no spec's why?
 

DrewD

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

I finally burned a full tank of fuel with 507.00 in the crankcase.

Mileage was 48.8 mpg which is slightly higher than what I'm used to getting.
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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Location
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'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

507 oils use an additive technology that replaces TBN. US labs will not be familiar with this technology and may say something like "TBN is uncommonly low" which would be accurate.
TBN isn't an additive chemistry that is replaced by something else -- it's a chemical test where acid is dropped into the oil until the PH shifts. The Total Base Number is a measure of the reserve alkalinity of the oil. Diesel oil has to fight acid, regardless of the OEM spec.
 

SUNRG

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Location
Roanoke, VA
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None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

507 oils use an additive technology that replaces TBN. US labs will not be familiar with this technology and may say something like "TBN is uncommonly low" which would be accurate.
TBN isn't an additive chemistry that is replaced by something else -- it's a chemical test where acid is dropped into the oil until the PH shifts. The Total Base Number is a measure of the reserve alkalinity of the oil. Diesel oil has to fight acid, regardless of the OEM spec.
Andy, What you've written is completely correct.

High TBN oils <u>do use additives</u> to achieve high levels of reserve alkalinity. LowSAPS oils cannot use the additives that traditionally result in high TBN values - as the traditional TBN enhancing additives contain the compounds that the lowSAPS oils must drastically reduce.

I don't know enough about the new lowSAPS oils to understand the new additive technologies they employ. I do know that their starting TBN is much lower than we see in common diesel oils - yet by utilizing new additive technologies, lowSAPS and lowTBN 507.00 oils, still pass all of the incredible 506.01 anti-wear and extended drain interval tests.
 

karlaudi

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2002 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDi; 2012 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 TDi
Re: Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standa

Well, there has been a lot said about VW / Audi specified oil here and I don't personally have the latest info available about VAG 504.00 & 507.00 at hand, but I understand that these standards have as much to do with emissions as they have to do with desired wear properties on various internal components.

I use, what my local dealer VW / Audi Dealer Service Department did not fully understand as why to at the time, VW/ Audi spec. 502.00 & 505.00 SAE 5W-40 oil. The same oil is required for both my TDi and 1.8T.

[I beat "the letter" by a few weeks in telling my Dealer that the use of "only approved oils" in my cars was a VW/Audi requirement and mine as well.]

As I have long preferred Castrol, I therefore use Castrol Syntec part [stock] number 02014-38. Castrol imports this oil from Belgium. I buy it from a local authorized Castrol jobber by the case, since the local parts stores will not order or stock it.

I realized PD motors are again different.

What I noticed running through many of the comments made about these oil requirements is the notion that somehow VW/ Audi (and others like BMW, MB, and Porsche) is making life difficult and imposing unnecessary maintenance costs on us poor TDi owners and the like.

Well let me use a technical term: Stop winning and get over it people!

What is it about the following statement many of you don't seem to understand?

"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

I have been interested in VW's, and later Audis too, since I was 14 years old in the early seventies. I joined the Navy out of High School at seventeen and bought my first car about a year later. It was a 1964 Chevy Bellaire. I sold it about six months after that for a Baja Bug and I have own a VW's and / or Audis ever since.

I have never bought in to the "cheap is better" idea. Or the American "tuner" school of thought, that somehow, and in spite of building the car I want the most, when it comes to how to "properly" Repair, Maintain, and care for the very cars they build the "factory" is, well, "stupid."

I have owned and, for a time, professionally serviced VW/ Audi vehicles because I like their designs for the most part and believe that their approach to automotive engineering is the best for my hard earned automotive dollars. I cannot afford to waste my time and budget trying to save money by "cutting corners" and performing maintenance "on the cheap."

While I may not agree with the path to performance and enhancement many may take, I respect their "choice." Even though it is sad to see any car, let alone a VW/ Audi turned into a rolling wreck through "tuning" and "maintenance" on the cheap.

There is a place were an engine covered in oil saturated dirt is a sign of neglect and vehicle that leaves an oil slick, where ever it parks, is illegal. It's called Germany.

I wonder what would be said "in Forum" , if we all had to pass a yearly German style TueV inspection?
 

Hprotter

Member
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Dec 26, 2005
Location
California
TDI
V10 Tougrag
506.01

506.01 Is required for V10 TDI, 507.00 in not acceptable

Diesel engines (I5, V10 TDI PD) with and without DPF:
Diesel engines (I5, V10 TDI PD) with and without DPF:
506 01***
 
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