Breaking News: New VAG 504.00 & 507.00 standards

[Bob_Fout]

So do I read this right no 5W40 for a 2011 TDI?

VW 507.00 is currently only 5w30. You may be able to use an MB 229.51 5w40 after the warranty period.

 

[GD]

VW 507.00 is currently only 5w30. You may be able to use an MB 229.51 5w40 after the warranty period.

Thanks any issues on using 5w30 vs 5w40

 

[Bob_Fout]

Thanks any issues on using 5w30 vs 5w40

Not that we have seen in the US since 2009.

 

[GD]

Not that we have seen in the US since 2009.

Thanks, I am used to using Rotella T6 in my PD. So I can no longer use that in the 2011 probably due to the ash content.

 

[TooSlick]

GD,

That's correct...the VW 504/507 oils have ~0.6% metallic ash, vs ~1.0% for a 5w-40, CJ-4 commercial engine oil. You could top off with the CJ-4 oil in a pinch, but continuous use would mean more rapid clogging of the DPF.

TS

 

[GD]

GD,

That's correct...the VW 504/507 oils have ~0.6% metallic ash, vs ~1.0% for a 5w-40, CJ-4 commercial engine oil. You could top off with the CJ-4 oil in a pinch, but continuous use would mean more rapid clogging of the DPF.

TS

Thanks, I guess I will keep my eye out for 504/507 approved oil sales/deals now.

 

[ssamalin]

Mobil Delvac 5w40 ESP?

Is this good for a PD? Do I need M1 5w30 ESP?

 

[Bob_Fout]

Is this good for a PD? Do I need M1 5w30 ESP?

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is a CJ-4 oil, and like other CJ-4 5w40s, does well in PDs.

 

[kydsid]

GD,

That's correct...the VW 504/507 oils have ~0.6% metallic ash, vs ~1.0% for a 5w-40, CJ-4 commercial engine oil. You could top off with the CJ-4 oil in a pinch, but continuous use would mean more rapid clogging of the DPF.

TS

Just recently upgraded to a 6.7 Ford. Any idea how Ford is able to spec CJ4 5w40? I did notice the call for dpf maintenance at 120k and possible replacement at 250k but wondered if that was it. Really wondering if its more than a dpf reason as their are other catalytic filters on both vw and ford diesels. Upon buying my vw I thought the 507 oil was nuts but kept with it for fear of damaging the DOC and other filters. Dpf was really secondary. Though the fact on the Passat its located between firewall and engine will keep me in 507 for its life.

 

[ssamalin]

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is a CJ-4 oil, and like other CJ-4 5w40s, does well in PDs.

Thanks. I put M1 5w40 Formula M ESP in for the last 5k miles. I hope I still have cams left. I'm going to use the Delvac from now on. I just bought a case from Petroleum Service Company.com for about $39 a gallon (including shipping.)

 

[Bob_Fout]

Thanks. I put M1 5w40 Formula M ESP in for the last 5k miles. I hope I still have cams left. I'm going to use the Delvac from now on. I just bought a case from Petroleum Service Company.com for about $39 a gallon (including shipping.)

Others have used M1 ESP FM 5w40 in PDs with no issues.

 

[jrm]

Just recently upgraded to a 6.7 Ford. Any idea how Ford is able to spec CJ4 5w40? I did notice the call for dpf maintenance at 120k and possible replacement at 250k but wondered if that was it. Really wondering if its more than a dpf reason as their are other catalytic filters on both vw and ford diesels. Upon buying my vw I thought the 507 oil was nuts but kept with it for fear of damaging the DOC and other filters. Dpf was really secondary. Though the fact on the Passat its located between firewall and engine will keep me in 507 for its life.

I am also learning but From what I understand, the after treatment exhaust system in 8500+ GVW trucks is less strict than in our 50 state legal TDI's so even burning few ounces of mid SAPS oils will be noticeable in the TDI's exhaust system.
Love the Ford 6.7 too- great engine! Im still keeping the oldie but goodie in my sig below

 

[TooSlick]

Kyd,

I think the serviceability issue comes into play when determining the level of metallic ash you specify for the engine oil. In addition, VW/Audi have had serious deposit issues with their DI gas engines. Since the latest TDI lubes also carry the VW 504.00, gas engine spec, this may be driving the formulation chemistry to even lower additive levels than you'd need for a dedicated TDI oil. I'm fairly certain this is the case.

TS

 

[GD]

GD,

That's correct...the VW 504/507 oils have ~0.6% metallic ash, vs ~1.0% for a 5w-40, CJ-4 commercial engine oil. You could top off with the CJ-4 oil in a pinch, but continuous use would mean more rapid clogging of the DPF.

TS

ANy issues using Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 rather than 5w30 VW507? As Mobil 1 is on sale at Napa

Thx

 

[TooSlick]

GD,

Since you're out of warranty you can use the 5w-40 version of the ESP. It's very similar to a VW 507.00 oil and has the same ash level.

TS

 

[T_D_I_POWER]

ANy issues using Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 rather than 5w30 VW507? As Mobil 1 is on sale at Napa

HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) M1 ESP 5W-40 FM 3.8 > M1 ESP 5W-30 3.58

Warranty or not M1 ESP 5W-40 FM is the better oil of the two. MB specifies this oil for all the CDI engines in NA not the M1 ESP 5W-30. That should tell you something.

 

[donDavide]

HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) M1 ESP 5W-40 FM 3.8 > M1 ESP 5W-30 3.58

Warranty or not M1 ESP 5W-40 FM is the better oil of the two. MB specifies this oil for all the CDI engines in NA not the M1 ESP 5W-30. That should tell you something.

But my Jeep with MB 3.0 diesel motor owner's manual says 5w30, but I do use the 5w40 Formula M, get on sale too! I have 20 qts I got for $5 USD.

 

[T_D_I_POWER]

You made a very wise choice

Only a handful of us in the forum who use M1 ESP 5W-40 FM -The Gold Oil-

 

[donDavide]

GD,

Since you're out of warranty you can use the 5w-40 version of the ESP. It's very similar to a VW 507.00 oil and has the same ash level.

TS

I think there is a difference, if I recall from the TDi forums here, I have seen that 5w30 is .06 while the 5w40 is .08 on the ash levels,

 

[Bob_Fout]

I think there is a difference, if I recall from the TDi forums here, I have see that 5w30 is .06 while the 5w40 is .08 on the ash levels,

These two specific oils (ESP 5w30 and Formula M ESP 5w40) have the same ash level. Other 229.51 5w40s usually have more.

 

[TooSlick]

Yes Bob is correct...

Both the BMW LL04 and Mercedes 229.51 specs allow up to 0.8% ash (they're based on the generic ACEA C3 Spec). I've never found an explicit limit for VW 507.00 that's lower than 0.8 either, however these oils are generally formulated with an ash level of ~0.6%. I expect this is done to meet some engine deposit limit for sludge/varnish/carbon, in VW/Audi engine tests.

TS

 

[lifeong9er]

Okay, lots to read, maybe too much. I have a brand new car and I am not close to my first oil change. What oil should I use in a 2015 Golf? I have read enough to know that the different year models require different specs.

 

[tditom]

Your manual should tell you to use an oil that carries VW specification 507 (assuming your Golf is a tdi ) or a 504 if you have a gasser.

Any oil that carries one of these specs will have the other. Good luck.

 

[lifeong9er]

Your manual should tell you to use an oil that carries VW specification 507 (assuming your Golf is a tdi ) or a 504 if you have a gasser.

Any oil that carries one of these specs will have the other. Good luck.

Clear and concise, thank you.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Your manual should tell you to use an oil that carries VW specification 507 (assuming your Golf is a tdi ) or a 504 if you have a gasser.

Any oil that carries one of these specs will have the other. Good luck.

Assuming the gasser Golf has the same oil requirements listed in the operator's manual as my GTI, 502.00, 503.00 and 504.00 are permissible.

 

[TooSlick]

Bob,

Are you going to run a VW504 oil in the GTI? I'm not totally convinced it's necessary since most of the VW 502 oils are mid SAPS anyway.

TS

 

[Bob_Fout]

Bob,

Are you going to run a VW504 oil in the GTI? I'm not totally convinced it's necessary since most of the VW 502 oils are mid SAPS anyway.

TS

I don't plan on it. A 502.00 5w40 that's also 229.5 or 229.51 is what I'm going with.

 

[SilverGhost]

As many GTIs we get with puked rear mains, popped PCV valves, oil build up in intercoolers, and generally burnt to hell oil (yes, I know its the type of driver) I would stick with the higher spec oil. But then you could probably get by with more oil changes and higher standard of inspection on the lesser oil.

Jason

PS; at least until its out of warranty...

 

[Bob_Fout]

As many GTIs we get with puked rear mains, popped PCV valves, oil build up in intercoolers, and generally burnt to hell oil (yes, I know its the type of driver) I would stick with the higher spec oil. But then you could probably get by with more oil changes and higher standard of inspection on the lesser oil.

Jason

PS; at least until its out of warranty...

Which are the higher and lesser oil specs in question?

 

[SilverGhost]

Which are the higher and lesser oil specs in question?

Doh! Aww crap!!

Never mind me, just talking out my arse without looking the facts up first.

I got 505.00 and 502.00 turned around and mixed up with 504.00 and 507.00. Carry on and ignore me being a dumb A**!

Jason