Breaking EGR cooler pipes? Check this!

[thermographer]

I found out that the dealership that preformed my EGR cooler recall left off a bracket, part number 038-129-811-B.

If you are breaking EGR cooling pipes, check that this simple bracket is in place. I suspect the missing bracket added to the vibration of the entire unit causing my upper and lower tubes to break.

Hopefully it was just my car and not the status quo of the dealership. Please post if your bracket is missing, I'd like to know how wide spread this is.

Remove engine cover and should be easy to see.

Air intake removed to get a good picture. Not normal to open the air intake, but willing to take one for the team.

 

[T_D_I_POWER]

Thanks for sharing

 

[mljjones67]

My bracket is missing. Guess its time time find one.

 

[MartyMcfly]

I just did an EGR Cooler delete, I have a fresh, mint, lower EGR tube that runs from the ex manifold to the cooler for sale if interested. 25$ plus shipping. PM me if interested.

 

[oEo]

My bracket is there...

 

[thermographer]

If you have to go the way of the dealership, it's shouldn't cost you over $15. My dealership did not have this in stock and had to special order it.

If you want to order it online, check here,
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-plate_222693.html

Besides adding the bracket, you will want to check the cooler mounts are not broken as some have pointed out. If even 1 is broken, I'm guessing (note it's a guess) that any extra vibration could cause the egr cooler pipes to break.

 

[supton]

I don't remember seeing that bracket on mine (but did see the broken mount). Is this something that was supposed to be on there from the get-go? Or was this bracket added last year?

 

[Tom_B]

My dealer left it off. They also stripped the flange at the connection to the lower pipe and used a threaded insert. After I had two lower pipes break, found a lower bolt from flange to the block missing and two broken ears on the cooler, I confronted my dealer. To their credit, they manned up and replaced the cooler unit 40k miles after they did the recall. This time they added the upper bracket to the cooler -- they just didn't bother to bolt it to the engine. One more trip and all is well. So far.

 

[PDJetta]

If the EGR cooler recall was performed (the M-6 Campaign), a complete kit should have been used. This kit includes a new lower EGR pipe and it is a different part number than the original lower pipe because it is bent ever so slightly differently to fit the new cooler. These pipes look the same. So the two lower pipes are not interchangeable. Just something to be aware of.

--Nate

 

[thermographer]

Thanks PD, that reminded me to post this,

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/516/m6_campain.pdf

The EGR cooler emissions recall that started this mess if anyone needs to look it up.

 

[PDJetta]

Thanks for the instructions (this is also great to read for the removal of the cooler for the Diesel Geel EGR cooler delete kit (that does not come with instructions). Notice in the M6 instructions (the parts list, specifically) the part number of the new lower pipe ends in "CC" and the instructions state it is a new part number. I am not sure the part numbers appear on the pipes, though.

I am sure that the wrong pipe used will lead to breakage. I think it will bolt up, but under tension.

Notice how detailed the cooler installation instructions are. The bolts MUST be installed in the sequence given to relieve all tension on the pipes. Many failed jobs where the lower pipe breaks are because the dealer just slapped the new cooler kit on, disregarding the instructions, because it is tedious to do it right. Some people report that the black metal cooler support bracket was left off too!

This is another recall I never had the dealer perform on my car and for good reason.

--Nate

 

[gforce1108]

Finally had a chance to check mine today... missing the bracket too. I ditched the broken tubes ages ago, but I still have a buzzing sound at one specific RPM. Maybe I'll hit up the dealer that did the recall to see if they'll give me a bracket. Otherwise, it'll just sit that way until I rip the whole cooler off too.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

JasonTDI says that dealers often also leave out a couple of the cooler bolts that are really hard to reach. Says it can take nearly an hour to get them in, but if you don't do it you'll keep breaking pipes. Maybe someone can take a look with a mirror and camera and see which ones he means.

 

[cochranecustoms]

Wow fantastic post, one of the best I have ever read, thanks. My lower pipe keeps cracking too. I am going to eliminate the egr cooler circuit. Thanks!

 

[thermographer]

I'm wondering if your bracket was in place or missing.

The bracket shown in the pictures is in the shape of a C and you need to insure the upper and lower bolts are in place. I can see how the lower bracket bolt would be left off, it looks like a challenge to get that one in.

 

[PDJetta]

One of the bracket bolts can not be seen without aid, and when I removed my cooler, I needed a mirror to locate it and did the rest by feel. Any good mechanic (or one of us) should be able to install this bolt using same technique.

--Nate

 

[DanG144]

You probably have something out of position causing excess torque on the flex pipes, or some mounting bolts loose or missing, causing vibration.

Even though these are flex pipes, treat them as if they are made out of thin glass. Never flex them during install or removal.

Ensure your motor and transmission mounts are intact (including the little dogbone mount for fore and aft movement.

This is the way I have done it with success. There is a TSB somewhere with VW directions, but I do not have it. If you do it wrong, you are guaranteed a short flex pipe life. I have found several with only one or two bolts installed after the recall was done at VW dealers. They all had broken pipes. There was one that did not even have the black support near the valve end reinstalled.

When you put on your next pipes, loosen all mounting bolts for the cooler (and there should be 7, not three). Three are obvious, the others are on the left end (right end in the photo below), near the tandem pump.

Then loosely mount both pipes, have the bolts backed off 1/2 turn in the pipes. Tighten the bolts on the upper pipe to the intake/EGR. Tighten the bolts on the lower pipe to the exhaust. Now tighten the upper pipe bolts to the cooler, then the lower pipe bolts to the cooler. This should put the cooler in as neutral a position as possible.

Then tighten all of your mounting bolts. The bottom one on the far right, that goes into the intake manifold transversely is a bit hard to locate.

 

[smismiles]

I just learned I have cracked upper and lower ERG pipes, along with a head of a bolt which supposedly holds everything together come off, so they need to drill it our and re-tap it. All together, the dealer is saying it's probably going to be about $600 to $700 dollars (one of the pipes is $300). I'm missing the pipe bracket, and have a feeling the dealer didn't put all the bolts in when they did the egr cooler recall a couple years ago. Is there anyway I can prove to them they didn't replace the pipes when they did the recall or anything else which might be useful on my argument that this most likely failed because of their lousy work? I could call VOA, but I really doubt they would care.

Also, if these cracks are large enough, would this cause the car to go into limp mode? or is this a whole different issue that I'm also having?

 

[thermographer]

I had both the upper and lower pipes cracked at one point and the car never went into limp mode. It would downshift alot, small hills and such but I never had limp mode.

I had replaced my first cracked pipe, the dealership replaced the second, and made phone calls on my behalf to have the EGR cooler recall redone when that broke.

Knock on wood, it seems like I'm out of the woods and the EGR cooler has been behaving itself.

 

[Blaqslax]

Guys, I want to thank you all for solving a long-standing mystery for me and saving me a lot of headache with my dealership. I had a local independent garage replace the lower pipe, replace it again a week later, and two weeks after that discover that the upper pipe was broken, and guess what? The lower pipe was broken again!

After finding this thread, I took it to my original dealership and they replaced the broken pipe and installed the missing bracket. Immediate increase in power, no more limp mode and MPG is back up to 43!

Life is good. TDICLUB is the BEST!

 

[COcyclist]

I took it to my original dealership and they replaced the broken pipe and installed the missing bracket.

TDICLUB is the BEST!

x2.

I am glad you had success with your dealership. I took mine to Glenwood Springs today and was told this would not be a warranty repair even though they previously replaced the leaking EGR cooler and left the bolts out. This is the second time the EGR pipe has cracked. (My EGR cooler is not bolted to the intake manifold and can be wiggled by hand) The first cracked pipe was replaced under warranty at 32,000 miles. Is this not covered as emissions equipment? The service guy said only the catalytic converter is covered to 8 years/80,000 miles.

 

[jcilforever]

Posts like this remind me why I do not go to the stealership. The poor person before me had to have the EGR cooler replaced. When I got it it kept cracking lower pipes (did not have the brackets you show) and also a rattle in the engine compartment near the EGR. Guess what I did, took the whole thing out and used the bypass from dieselgeek. Problem solved

 

[jcilforever]

x2.

I am glad you had success with your dealership. I took mine to Glenwood Springs today and was told this would not be a warranty repair even though they previously replaced the leaking EGR cooler and left the bolts out. This is the second time the EGR pipe has cracked. (My EGR cooler is not bolted to the intake manifold and can be wiggled by hand) The first cracked pipe was replaced under warranty at 32,000 miles. Is this not covered as emissions equipment? The service guy said only the catalytic converter is covered to 8 years/80,000 miles.

EGR is part of the emissions system to meet EPA estimates submitted to the government. Just order the kit and remove it.

 

[COcyclist]

Just order the kit and remove it.

I think I'm there. I'll have to get the kit and a chip tune too. Just for grins I priced the upper and lower pipes and 4 gaskets from the dealer- over $300! I guess I can use the money I saved to offset the tune. This can give me a good place to put an EGT probe too.

 

[jcilforever]

I think I'm there. I'll have to get the kit and a chip tune too. Just for grins I priced the upper and lower pipes and 4 gaskets from the dealer- over $300! I guess I can use the money I saved to offset the tune. This can give me a good place to put an EGT probe too.

Go to dieselgeek.com and search egr and the kit will pop up. If you do not have the time to remove the whole thing right away you can just pull of the top and bottom EGR pipes and slap the block off plates on probably take 10-15 minutes. Then when you have the time you can remove the cooler and put in the tube to reroucte the coolant. I have had the check engine light on in both my cars for over 6 months (do not reccommend) but I just need to spend the tune money on other upgrades before that are associated with the tune.

 

[VWBeamer]

I had the bracket and the cooler still leaked. Best thing to do if you live in an are without diesel emission testing is to simply delete the EGR cooler.

You will get a CEL, but most tuners can delete that for a small amount. The car will run much smoother, get better MPG and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[COcyclist]

Thanks guys,

VWBeamer, I see a 2004 TDi in your signature. I am under the impression that the computer in the BEW PD engine has an O2 sensor that can call for the anti-shudder valve to close partially when it calls for EGR. Yes, no?? I want to retain the valve for runaway protection and would rather tune for optimum mpg over ultimate power (although increasing both would be nice). I saw a thread on here suggesting some guys saw a mpg drop after blocking the EGR. Could the valve be closing and causing a restriction in the intake? Can you tune that out and get better highway mileage after an EGR delete?

 

[Shenandoah]

Guys,

I just removed my EGR cooler on my 2005 BEW Beetle. I had the transmission out and let me tell you, it is a pain to remove the EGR cooler. Yes, there are several hard to reach allen head bolts that you can only remove by feel.

Eric

 

[PDJetta]

Thanks guys,

VWBeamer, I see a 2004 TDi in your signature. I am under the impression that the computer in the BEW PD engine has an O2 sensor that can call for the anti-shudder valve to close partially when it calls for EGR. Yes, no?? I want to retain the valve for runaway protection and would rather tune for optimum mpg over ultimate power (although increasing both would be nice). I saw a thread on here suggesting some guys saw a mpg drop after blocking the EGR. Could the valve be closing and causing a restriction in the intake? Can you tune that out and get better highway mileage after an EGR delete?

"Can you tune that out and get better highway mileage after an EGR delete?"

I have heard from chiptuners that the throttle plate action can be tuned out too. Check with them.

--Nate

 

[jcilforever]

I had the bracket and the cooler still leaked. Best thing to do if you live in an are without diesel emission testing is to simply delete the EGR cooler.

You will get a CEL, but most tuners can delete that for a small amount. The car will run much smoother, get better MPG and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

I forgot and took for granted that my state does not do emissions testing If you do need an new EGR cooler because you live in a testing state then you can get a great deal at ECS for $46 instead of $350 http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_IV--TDI/Search/On_Sale/ES275195/