Break-In

[hid3]

These engines are designed to last 25,000 hours at 80% load before needing an overhaul. At best when driving down the highway you are only running at 40-50%.

Unless you can say that 100% of your driving is up a 20% grade all day everyday and anytime you are moving you aint gonna wear the engine out!

The statistics work against every TDI owner, that is you will total your car in an accident before you reach 50% of the cars actual service life!

These engines are used in Power Generation, Pumping as well as Marine applications. Puttering around in a small car regardless of how hard you try to push it won't even come close to reducing engine life.

Any references/sources for that?

 

[scooperhsd]

I just don't want to get addicted to the G forces!

Yes you do - trust the good Doctor !

My own story - I bought my 2000 NB used with 65,000 miles on it. After I went past 190,000 miles - my MPG suddenly improved by 10 percent. Did I do something different ? - No - I've just been driving the crap out of it for 120,000 miles and it FINALLY broke in correctly.

 

[wild03]

These engines are designed to last 25,000 hours at 80% load before needing an overhaul. At best when driving down the highway you are only running at 40-50%.

Unless you can say that 100% of your driving is up a 20% grade all day everyday and anytime you are moving you aint gonna wear the engine out!

The statistics work against every TDI owner, that is you will total your car in an accident before you reach 50% of the cars actual service life!

These engines are used in Power Generation, Pumping as well as Marine applications. Puttering around in a small car regardless of how hard you try to push it won't even come close to reducing engine life.

True, but there are other components besides the engine that wear out as well, Alternators, AC compressor, belts, transmission, CV joints etc from the loads.

Besides wouldn't the gurus agree that the way I have desided to drive the car is at least not that bad?

 

[ruking]

True, but there are other components besides the engine that wear out as well, Alternators, AC compressor, belts, transmission, CV joints etc from the loads.

Besides wouldn't the gurus agree that the way I have desided to drive the car is at least not that bad?

I am not a guru, but I would say from your posts, you are NOT maximizing the potential for longer and trouble free operation. This is not to say your car will not survive your 8 mile one way 16 miles commute. All one can reasonably do is to put as many of the odds in ones favor and motor on. So whatever one decides to do it has to be ok, if for no other reason that YOU are the owner and they are YOUR nickels.

Yes it is absolutely true there are other components as per your example, " Alternators, AC compressor, belts, transmission, CV joints etc from the loads". I am not sure I understand your point or what you are alluding to.

You will probably not see this much in print or even said this way, but the best "easy on" mileage is freeway and 45 min to 1 hour minimum in duration. Anything less is of consequence, "HARDER" on the components.

 

[Drivbiwire]

Any references/sources for that?

Plenty...
1.9L 75hp Continious rated:

75Hp (1.9L TDI) continious rated:

265hp (3.0L TDI) continious rated:

 

[wild03]

I am not a guru, but I would say from your posts, you are NOT maximizing the potential for longer and trouble free operation.

Huh?! Maybe I'm missing something but this is from the OP's first post.

Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.

Car has about 400 miles, I already said that I rev the engine to 3K, 3 or 4 times on my commute, that's about half the total times I have to move out of a standing stop. Must I rev the engine to 3K EVERY TIME?

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm (75%) application of power is strongly recomended up to a maximum engine rpm of 3,800. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.
DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL UNTIL 10,000 MILES!

I keep my RPMs to 3K or less! as stated above. am I missing something?

I am not sure I understand your point or what you are alluding to

It seems that a lot of the suggestions concentrate just on the engine internals, I wanted to point out that the sudden acceleration compromises other systems as well, it is always a trade off. I wanted to understand what the trade off where.

Without nitpicking every word, what I got from the breaking procedure is that the turbo vanes must be exercised to avoid lockups. 3K does that I'm kool with that. There's the engine break-in that takes place and improves performance, The way I drive the car might delay the break in when compared to the suggestion of using the entire 5100 rpm range. I can live with that and will take my chances instead of redlining it. Yes to me red-line starts at 4500 or so. The engine might take it but there are accessories attached that might not fare so well. Again thanks to all that replied! Great info.

 

[ruking]

Huh?! Maybe I'm missing something but this is from the OP's first post.


Car has about 400 miles, I already said that I rev the engine to 3K, 3 or 4 times on my commute, that's about half the total times I have to move out of a standing stop. Must I rev the engine to 3K EVERY TIME?


I keep my RPMs to 3K or less! as stated above. am I missing something?


It seems that a lot of the suggestions concentrate just on the engine internals, I wanted to point out that the sudden acceleration compromises other systems as well, it is always a trade off. I wanted to understand what the trade off where.

Without nitpicking every word, what I got from the breaking procedure is that the turbo vanes must be exercised to avoid lockups. 3K does that I'm kool with that. There's the engine break-in that takes place and improves performance, The way I drive the car might delay the break in when compared to the suggestion of using the entire 5100 rpm range. I can live with that and will take my chances instead of redlining it. Yes to me red-line starts at 4500 or so. The engine might take it but there are accessories attached that might not fare so well. Again thanks to all that replied! Great info.

My response was to "words to the effect that 4,000" (3825 being 75% of red line) or so rpms was "punishing". So if you mis spoke or have come to understand that 4k is not punishing or I mis identified, 3k (2,250 -2,300 rpms) does keep the turbo on boost and exercises the full range of motion on the vanes. Indeed if you are cruising @ 4,000 rpms or so, you are pretty much in autobahn speed territory. 3,000 rpms is also @ a pretty good clip. Again all the best.

 

[hid3]

I liked DBW's post where he says actual redline is 8,100 RPM LOL, VW assembles TDIs with WRONG clusters!

 

[MHC48]

Never drove an automatic before

After having driven stick all my life I'm in the unenviable position of having to get the DSG for family reasons. I'll be picking it up today. I've gone through this and the other thread but am still unclear as to how to break in if I have to rely on the DSG to do all the shifting.

Other than following the rpm advice, avoiding lugging and firm (and I assume?) pedal starting from stops and whenever possible while driving, what else can I do?

Is/are there any other ways to "train" the DSG?

Can I "train" the DSG by putting it into S or M mode?

And can I do that from the outset, or should I wait a while?

 

[Jack Frost]

After having driven stick all my life I'm in the unenviable position of having to get the DSG for family reasons.

Greater no love than this that a man giveth up his stick for his wife.

Other than following the rpm advice, avoiding lugging and firm (and I assume?) pedal starting from stops and whenever possible while driving, what else can I do?

Worry less! The DSG, with the exception of its tendency to lug at 45 kph, is probably doing a very good job by maintaining a non jerky and smooth amount of torque to the drive line. Engines that are in the very early process of breaking in are less able to accomodate the extra loads caused by deviations from the norm. Smooth, moderate applications in torque (not the same as power or rpm), and variability in RPM that represent how the motor will be used in its life time are probably the only things that really matter. That is what the DSG is good at.

The 2009 TDI/DSG in D mode will not allow you to achieve the high rpm that DBW has suggested. If you try to get there in the early stages of a break in, you may be exposing the cylinder walls to damaging amounts of heat and friction. Moderate rpms are okay but more important than that is variability in rpm as well as moderate and brief applications of torque (not power or rpm) that will seat the rings. Any applications of power and rpm beyond the moderate level will generate excessive heat and soot which are not an engine's friend in the break in stage.

Is/are there any other ways to "train" the DSG?

I know that many on this forum say the DSG is adaptive but I am unsure. If it is, then VW is not promoting it. I encourage drivers to adapt instead to the driving situation. Grandmotherly in some situations, Italian tune-up in other situations. But mostly moderation and variability in everything else. Adaptive technology, if it exists in my car, is probably all mixed up. But I don't care. Why would I trust my gear shifting strategy to a software engineer when they can't get spell "cheque" to work properly!

 

[40X40]

I liked DBW's post where he says actual redline is 8,100 RPM LOL, VW assembles TDIs with WRONG clusters!

That is not what was posted.

Redline is defined as the maximum rpm allowed by the engine, in the case of all TDI's it is 5,100 rpm. The maximum physical limit of a TDI engine due in part to it's short stroke is approximately 8,800 rpm (this is when you will throw a rod or damage a piston, this rpm is not possible unless you force a downshift into 1st gear while driving 80mph)

Here is what he really posted. Cut/pasted from the first post in this very thread.

Bill

 

[Turbine Suburban]

I was easy on it for the first few hundred miles. Then I drove normal, which for me includes (once in a while) driving it like I stole it.

Personally, my gut feeling is that with today's manufacturing tolerances, materials selections, and assembly techniques, break in is not as user end critical as it used to be.

Someone here posted worry less and drive more. I agree.

 

[Bob_Fout]

This is more than just break-in though. These are healthy driving techniques for the rest of the car's existence. Many a turbo has been ruined by excessive babying, and engine runaway/hydrolocking due to oil in the IC.

 

[MHC48]

Greater no love than this that a man giveth up his stick for his wife.

I'm only giving up the stick in the car. That was the tacit quid pro quo: forgo the stick in the car, we continue to use the other one. No short shifting.

 

[scooperhsd]

The "adaptive" shifting in my car is probably in a continous state of confusion then - I am the ultimate jackrabbit starter, then once I hit cruising speed I upshift to the most appropriate gear. Yes, I sometimes take it OUT of D because it isn't good on the car (45 in 4th in gently rolling just doesn't hack it at 1500 RPM).

 

[PowerDawg]

Sorry for the long first post…

I have only had my 09 Jetta TDI sedan for a week now and have accumulated about 350 miles. I have also been following this thread for the same amount of time trying to apply what I have gleaned.

With the large amount of info and others questions/answers here, I would like to share my interpretation of what I got from this thread. Hopefully, if I misinterpreted any of the instructions the experts can set me straight.

I am hoping for a proper break in that will provide me many many miles of fuel economy, longevity, and performance (and hopefully reliable).

My daily commute is 20 miles, of which 16 is highway. First two miles is country road from house to highway and last two is city driving from highway to work. (Yes, I have to work to pay for this fun-to-drive experience).

First two miles is the “warm-up” period where (using manual mode) I perform 2-3-4-5 upshifts at 2500 rpm and cruise at 2000 rpm. At the end of the road I also downshift for engine braking. By this time the temp gauge is sitting at 190.

Getting on the highway (again manual mode) upshifting at ~3200 rpm and cruising in (D) ~2000-2200 rpm with 4 or 5 firm accelerations (during the 16 mile drive) to about 80 mph (couple of times 90 mph J) then let off and slow to 60-65. I am thinking it revs to around 3200-3500 rpm during these accelerations. Not too sure as I type this.

The last two miles are stop and go in manual mode and shift at 3200 as much as possible and cruise at 2000 rpm. 40 mph max for the last two miles so I consider this to be my cool down period.

Not sure I understand what is meant by:

“-Allow the DSG or automatic transmission to determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It knows better than you... Provided you have it trained to be biased to the sport mode the engines shift points will occur at the ideal ranges.”

How do I train the DSG? Will it learn what rpms I shift at when in manual mode? When in D mode, am I suppose to accelerate hard enough to ensure it shifts above 3000 rpm?

I am hoping the experts will chime in and tell me if I am doing something incorrectly for a proper break-in. Driving the car like this is a blast but I have to imagine it is at the cost of fuel economy. At what point (if any) can I expect to just put it in D and go without having to think about anything? I ask because this is how my wife will drive.

 

[ruking]

Sorry for the long first post…

I have only had my 09 Jetta TDI sedan for a week now and have accumulated about 350 miles. I have also been following this thread for the same amount of time trying to apply what I have gleaned.

With the large amount of info and others questions/answers here, I would like to share my interpretation of what I got from this thread. Hopefully, if I misinterpreted any of the instructions the experts can set me straight.

I am hoping for a proper break in that will provide me many many miles of fuel economy, longevity, and performance (and hopefully reliable).

My daily commute is 20 miles, of which 16 is highway. First two miles is country road from house to highway and last two is city driving from highway to work. (Yes, I have to work to pay for this fun-to-drive experience).

First two miles is the “warm-up” period where (using manual mode) I perform 2-3-4-5 upshifts at 2500 rpm and cruise at 2000 rpm. At the end of the road I also downshift for engine braking. By this time the temp gauge is sitting at 190.

Getting on the highway (again manual mode) upshifting at ~3200 rpm and cruising in (D) ~2000-2200 rpm with 4 or 5 firm accelerations (during the 16 mile drive) to about 80 mph (couple of times 90 mph J) then let off and slow to 60-65. I am thinking it revs to around 3200-3500 rpm during these accelerations. Not too sure as I type this.

The last two miles are stop and go in manual mode and shift at 3200 as much as possible and cruise at 2000 rpm. 40 mph max for the last two miles so I consider this to be my cool down period.

Not sure I understand what is meant by:

“-Allow the DSG or automatic transmission to determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It knows better than you... Provided you have it trained to be biased to the sport mode the engines shift points will occur at the ideal ranges.”

How do I train the DSG? Will it learn what rpms I shift at when in manual mode? When in D mode, am I suppose to accelerate hard enough to ensure it shifts above 3000 rpm?

I am hoping the experts will chime in and tell me if I am doing something incorrectly for a proper break-in. Driving the car like this is a blast but I have to imagine it is at the cost of fuel economy. At what point (if any) can I expect to just put it in D and go without having to think about anything? I ask because this is how my wife will drive.

Sounds like you got the drill down !! Wishing you a minimum of 500,000 trouble free miles !!!

In so far as fine tuning the mpg, I say run one week each in D, S, manual mode. Report back if you are so inclined, your mpg results. All the best. My money is on better mpg in D. A little more fun in S. A lot more fun in manual mode !!! mpg declining respectively

 

[PowerDawg]

Thanks

Thanks for confirming the routine is what it is. It takes a little getting use to but after a few days it almost seems natural.

 

[MHC48]

So I just picked up a 2009 today with DSG. As I said in a prior post, this is my first automatic.

If I leave it in D mode around town I find it almost impossible not to lug the engine. The DSG upshifts very quickly and then stays in high gear, but with traffic being slow, rpms go down to @1200 -1500 or lower and it always sounds and feels as if the engine is lugging. Sometimes I will shift into M just to see what gear it's in and find that the car is still in 6th gear! No wonder the lugging sound and feel.

I've taken to driving more and more in M as the only way to stay around 2k rpm and prevent the lugging.

When in M, the transmission will down shift by it self appropriately as I slow down for a light, but it doesn't seem to be down shifting in normal driving in D, or at least not efficiently enough.

How can I get the DSG to downshift in traffic to match lower rpms?

 

[Jack Frost]

If I leave it in D mode around town I find it almost impossible not to lug the engine. The DSG upshifts very quickly and then stays in high gear, but with traffic being slow, rpms go down to @1200 -1500 or lower and it always sounds and feels as if the engine is lugging.

Read FAQ #18 ( FAQ: 2009 TDI-specific issues (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=231417

If you find yourself wandering down into 1300-1500 rpm range, use the tiptronic to downshift or accelerate very very gently to a higher rpm. The engine won't lug in the rpm that you state unless you accelerate assertively. Anything less than 1300 rpm in 5th or 4th gear, use the tiptronic to downshift before accelerating.

In the lower gears the same rule applies except that the lugging occurs at lower rpms and engine has an easier time to climb out of the hole on its own. Generally, it is not worth using the tiptronic to downshift at the lower gears as gentle acceleration fixes the problem faster.

There are no really hard and fast rules because lugging is a combination of many factors: rpm, selected gear, load on engine, weight of vehicle, traffic situation and how much time the turbo has had to catch up. Depending on what is best, in order of my preference, this is what I do:

• gently gently accelerate to a higher rpm
• use tiptronic to select lower gear and accelerate to a higher speed and put the DSG back into D
• press on the accelerator half way to force a lower gear and jackrabbit ahead with a bit a lag (make sure there is no one in front of you)
• reduce load on car by backing off on accelerator and slowing down to a point where the DSG will automatically select a lower gear. Hold speed steady. Gently accelerate to a higher speed when conditions permit.

With a little experience and practice, you can smoothly flow through any traffic situation with minimal use of the tiptronic.

 

[MHC48]

Thanks, Jack, the section in the FAQ (how did I not see this one??) about Engine lugging / too low RPMs at about 35-40 MPH. really nails it.

I'd been confused by the statement in Drivebiwire's excellent Break-In summary which said to let the DSG determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It made me reluctant to switch over into M mode. But finally the lugging was driving me crazy and so I did it anyway. Each time I did, I saw that the car was in 6th, so I started regularly going into M and downshifting myself.

But I was still apprehensive about doing it until reading your post.

Now I'll try the rest of the things you recommended too. I had a feeling that accelerating gently would alleviate the lugging but in the type of traffic I was in yesterday I was often too close to try that. Maybe I'll finally learn to hang back a bit more and keep a lighter foot on the pedal.

 

[Dimitri16V]

i took my cousins brand new 2009 for a ride last week . after the ride , he was shaking ( he is a very mellow driver and pussyfooted ). I told him that's how you break in your car , he looked horified.

 

[Jack Frost]

Now I'll try the rest of the things you recommended too. I had a feeling that accelerating gently would alleviate the lugging but in the type of traffic I was in yesterday I was often too close to try that. Maybe I'll finally learn to hang back a bit more and keep a lighter foot on the pedal.

If you are too close to accelerate even very gently while you are in the low rpm zone, you can just maintain your current speed. The engine shouldn't lug as long as stay above 1200 rpm and just coast. The injectors with this car can inject up to 5 separate times in a single power stroke. This allows a more progressive burn and a gentler push on the pistons than previous TDI's which experience more of a detonation style of combustion. Thus you can wander more into the low rpms with a 2009 DSG without lugging provide that you ease out.

When you are ready to get on with it, you can either drop a gear and accelerate up a few more mph. After that, you can decide to stay in the lower gear if you intend to accelerate quickly again, or allow the DSG to move back into the higher gear if more coasting is in order.

Once you climb above 1500 rpm, you can start driving more assertively. At 1800 rpm you can start accelerating aggressively if you want. Lead the turbo but don't dictate to it. Allow the car's computer to coordinate all of it functions in the most optimal way without compromising combustion efficiency. That is what Dr. Dawg means by "squeezing it".

My understanding is that when these cars are new, stay away from excessive idling, low loads, high loads, lugging and high rpms. Moderation in everything. City driving with a DSG outside of rush hour is probably as ideal a breaking in opportunity that I can imagine.

 

[TornadoRed]

Once you climb above 1500 rpm, you can start driving more assertively. At 1800 rpm you can start accelerating aggressively if you want. Lead the turbo but don't dictate to it. Allow the car's computer to coordinate all of it functions in the most optimal way without compromising combustion efficiency. That is what Dr. Dawg means by "squeezing it".

I would feel more comfortable with RPM points slightly higher than the ones you use -- above 1700-1800 to drive more assertively in the higher gears, above 2000 to accelerate aggressively. I don't have a boost gauge, so I am using intuition and the "seat of the pants" instead of the needle on a gauge.

 

[MHC48]

If you are too close to accelerate even very gently while you are in the low rpm zone, you can just maintain your current speed. The engine shouldn't lug as long as stay above 1200 rpm and just coast. The injectors with this car can inject up to 5 separate times in a single power stroke. This allows a more progressive burn and a gentler push on the pistons than previous TDI's which experience more of a detonation style of combustion. Thus you can wander more into the low rpms with a 2009 DSG without lugging provide that you ease out.

I should probably say or have said that when I say the car is "lugging" I don't mean the technical definition of truly lugging, but rather , knowing by the sound and rumble and responsiveness and my experience, that the engine is in a much higher gear than it should be for the speed I'm driving and the demand I'm or I'm about to put on it. I'm talking about the rpms being 12 -1500 and if I check by switching over to M, the car being in 6th gear.

Yes I can, 99% of the time, accelerate slowly out of it and bring rpms to 1800, but if I were driving a stick, I'd have dropped down to 4th gear or lower and wish the DSG would do that too. Im always tempted at that point to switch over to M and downshift. It would be great if, once I did that the car stayed in 4th, but as soon as I switch back to D, it goes right back up to 6th and rpms plummet.

I guess VW programed the DSG to upshift quickly at 1800- 1900 rpm and stay in the highest gear in order to achieve better mpg or something. But it just feels weird.

 

[Jack Frost]

I can't disagree with any of the above comments. I also agree that at 1800 rpm, there is no lugging to worry about. It might all depend on your car, its circumstances, driving style, and how one defines "gently accelerate". I just hope that those who read these posts have some choices to make and probably do what they feel comfortable with. Whatever that choice, it is better than allowing the engine to continue struggling in 6th gear at 45 mph.

My suspicion is that with the driving style that I use, boost pressure hasn't being increased very much. What matters the most is that the pressure produced inside the cylinders has been increased enough to keep the piston rings seated but not in a way they are rattling inside their grooves from lugging. For myself, the positive results are reflected in that my oil just before its first change wasn't any darker than a gasser with the same mileage. If there was lugging, there would be more soot showing up in the oil (or so I think).

I own a tractor. The advantage of driving an old diesel tractor is that you sit right behind the exhaust stack and you know when you are lugging the engine. It is when you get that bark in its exhaust note and you hear that "clack" from the engine. It weighs 8000 pounds and has only half the horsepower of my TDI. You also get to see right away the colour of the exhaust. It will purr like a kitten trundling down the highway at 1500 rpm or the lower range of its useful rpm range. But put a load on it and you better have it close to 2300 rpm or higher. If you do, it will leap into harness.

It is too bad that none of us can get together and evaluate each other's driving style and the results it brings.

 

[MHC48]

One last thought: I traded in my 1994 Jeep Grand cherokee with 180k miles on it (clunker) and on my drive back from the dealership in my awesome new Jetta, I realized that I burned ~2.3x as much gas on the way there as I did on the way home!

LOL, I traded in a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 216,668 miles on it and still running like a (slow) top. I got sentimental and felt kinda felt badly, since it had done such dependable yeoman work for me the past 10 years, but I figured that I owed it to the Jeep's children and grandchildren.

 

[Travelthere]

It's almost impossible meeting these break-in requirements in "D" mode when I'm leaving my neighborhood in the morning. Should I use "M" mode to get to 2500 rpm shift point until warm and 3000+ rpm shift point when warm? Even entering the freeway in "D" mode it is hard to get the shifts above 3000 rpm. However, if I use "S" mode, it's much easier to get the shifts above 3000 rpm. On a road with a speed limit of 35 or 40, I can't keep the engine rpm's near 2000 rpm unless I shift to "M" and force a downshift. Should I be doing the break-in almost completely in "M" and "S" modes?

 

[TornadoRed]

It's almost impossible meeting these break-in requirements in "D" mode when I'm leaving my neighborhood in the morning. Should I use "M" mode to get to 2500 rpm shift point until warm and 3000+ rpm shift point when warm? Even entering the freeway in "D" mode it is hard to get the shifts above 3000 rpm. However, if I use "S" mode, it's much easier to get the shifts above 3000 rpm. On a road with a speed limit of 35 or 40, I can't keep the engine rpm's near 2000 rpm unless I shift to "M" and force a downshift. Should I be doing the break-in almost completely in "M" and "S" modes?

I think you've answered these questions yourself. "D" is programmed for economy, economy comes later after the initial phase of the break-in process. Until then stick with M and S. And have fun, but watch out for the CHP.

 

[Elfnmagik]

I use M vs. S.

I like having the ability to upshift a gear in town to drop the revs a bit when cruising vs just revv'ng around at 3k all the time. IMO, S works well for canyon running and maybe flat out racing. D for cruising above 60