Break-In

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Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.
-Keep rpms as close to 2000 rpm as possible when driving at a steady speed. This promotes optimum temperatures for the DPF and keeps the engine in the middle of its most efficient rpm range (1800-2200 rpm).
-Allow the DSG or automatic transmission to determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It knows better than you... Provided you have it trained to be biased to the sport mode the engines shift points will occur at the ideal ranges.


Redline is defined as the maximum rpm allowed by the engine, in the case of all TDI's it is 5,100 rpm. The maximum physical limit of a TDI engine due in part to it's short stroke is approximately 8,800 rpm (this is when you will throw a rod or damage a piston, this rpm is not possible unless you force a downshift into 1st gear while driving 80mph)

The instrument cluster shows a red BAND starting at or around 4600 rpm, most owners will find that very little power resides beyond this point due mostly to the ECU reducing fueling to respect the smoke map.

Adaptive Transmissions, these transmissions learn based on how you apply the power with your foot. Over time they will modify shift patterns with a bias to a "Sport" mode. Train the transmission to shift as close to the recomended rpm ranges below.

When your engine was first produced the motor was placed in a test cell and "Run-in" by a computer run dyno. The motor after the run-in was DRAINED OF ALL ITS FLUIDS (Oil, Coolant etc), the filters were replaced and a unique break-in oil was installed to promote a proper break-in once installed in the car as well as to protect the engine from corrosion during shipping to final assembly.

The "Break-in oil", YES VW does use a specially formulated "Break-In" oil formulated under an internal "TL" specification and produced by Fuchs. The oil is a group IV synthetic 5w30 formulated to comply with the LowSAPS VW507.00 requirements as well as the TL specifications for break-in. The oil is intended to allow a controlled rate of wear while protecting the engine and allowing the internal parts to seat proplerly during the engines first 10,000 road miles.

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm (75%) application of power is strongly recomended up to a maximum engine rpm of 3,800. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.
DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL UNTIL 10,000 MILES!

1,000-5,000 miles
Use the full 5,100 rpm power range. THIS DOES NOT MEAN DRIVE AROUND AT 5100 RPM! This DOES mean to find the rpm range where your cars best power resides. Most owners will find that the best engine operating range to be between 2000rpm and 4200 rpm for the purpose of acceleration. At all costs avoid using full throttle below 2000 rpm the ECU will attempt to prevent you from applying full power in this range, work with it and don't request it with your foot.
Continue to avoid steady rpms and avoid the use of cruise control. occasional application of full throttle (100%) is recomended to help seat the rings. City driving is ideal for breaking in a TDI due to frequent stops and acceleration. DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL UNTIL 10,000 MILES!

5,000-10,000 miles
Use of the cruise control is ok at this point since most of the initial break in has occured. Continue to use occasional full throttle accelerations to continue to seat the rings. You will notice the engine become slightly louder during this phase due to less friction from the engine breaking in (normal for a diesel to become louder under lighter loads). If your going on a long drive and you are using the cruise, every so often step on the peddle to accelerate up about 20 mph then coast back down to your preset speed.

Your first oil change is due at 10,000 miles DO NOT change it early! Oil analysis supports 10,000 miles as being realistic for a first change interval. Wear metals will remain at safe levels during this entire first interval thanks to the initial run-in and flush at the factory before the engine was installed in your car.

10,000-60,000
This is when the rest of the break in occurs. The engine from the factory will check out with about 475psi of compression pressure out of the crate. It will take at least 60,000 miles to reach the peak pressure of 510 psi. For the most part once you get to 10,000 miles your compression will be around 490 psi meaning that most of the break in has occured.

60,000-the life of the motor
The owners have followed the advice above and do not have any oil consumption issues. This also means that with the higher pressure the engine is more efficient returning optimal fuel economy and reduced smoke output. I am still of the opinion that if possible use a LowSAPS 5w40 instead of the 5w30 oils ie Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 formula M (MB229.51, .6 Sulfated Ash)
 
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hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
Will there be any break-in instructions by YOU for a non-TDI diesel VW engines? Here in Europe we have SDI (Suction Diesel Injection, similar to TDI but without turbo) but don't know how to break them in!!
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
1. This sounds like it has been revised for the '09 models. Would any of this be backwards compatible with the pre-09's? I mean, let's say someone buys a new-in-crate BEW motor to drop into an '03. 5k for the first OCI, or 10k?

2. I thought that, at the risk of an oil war, that it was determined that the break-in oil wasn't special? Or did that change?
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
Jerry, I don't see why breaking in an SDI would be much different. The rings would still need full pressure in the cylinders for best sealing, so I'd drive it the same way (unless if the owners manual states differently).
 

hid3

Banned
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Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
supton, someone in the older break-in thread mentioned that break-in instructions for non-turbo VW engines are different. Well, owners manual says drive first few thousand miles GENTLY for all, TDI and SDI :D
 

MPBsr

Veteran Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2009 TDI....Traded in
Doesn't the owners manual state the first oil change should be at 5,000 miles? Therefore to maintain proper maintenance and warranty coverage?
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
The owner's manual for '04 did state 5k. That's why I asked for the clarification. [Yeah, there are no more "new" 04's or other years, but it's a significant change from the way it was.]
 

mrGutWrench

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Wallace, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
MPBsr said:
Doesn't the owners manual state the first oil change should be at 5,000 miles? Therefore to maintain proper maintenance and warranty coverage?
__. Yes, for ALH and PD engines, that was correct. The post from DBW seems to refer to the new CR engines, and the first oil change on these is specified to be 10K miles.

__. I would bet that the Chermins, with their 50km oil change intervals, get a real laugh at Americans changing at 10K miles and the idea of 3K miles must absolutely split some of their stitches!
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
They (The Europeans) cured the 3K Bull$hit by charging 24 EUros ($1 x 1.398 = $33.55 per LITER) for oil. One oil change amounts to $167 just for the oil! Talk about incentive to utilize extended drain intervals and the built in oil monitoring system.

Of course VWOA is under pressure from dealers who want owners to come in every 5K and cite "Severe driving conditions" as the reason, how about that Autobahn isnt that severe driving? I know I drive it on a regular basis and know first hand that even the Autobahn has its share of stop and go traffic, road construction as well as the typical "Free speed" zones.

The new cars as clean as they run oil change intervals of 10K are a waste of resources.

I would say this much, I would not recomend extended drain intervals until past 30K total on the car.
 

mrGutWrench

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Wallace, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Drivbiwire said:
They (The Europeans) cured the 3K Bull$hit by charging 24 EUros ($1 x 1.398 = $33.55 per LITER) for oil. One oil change amounts to $167 just for the oil! Talk about incentive to utilize extended drain intervals and the built in oil monitoring system. (snip)
__. No, no, you jist don't unnerstan. My Pappy had a '49 Ford pickup, changed the oil ever 3000 miles with "Advance" straight 30 weight non detergent from the Sevvum-Allevum store. That truck ran over 400,000 miles until uncle Elvin got drunk and backed the bulldozer over it. You GOTTA change oil ever 3000 miles or your engine will fall out. Them Yuppireens don't know nothing anyhow.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
If it was '49 truck it was probably every 1500 miles :p and oil was changed based on the season :eek:
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I think they called them "Screens" they simply filtered out all grass clippings that were poured in with all the oil changes, they had nothing to do with filtration!
 

boutmuet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Long Beach, CA
TDI
2015 BMW 328d
Drivbiwire said:
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.
Does that mean you never use 6th gear when driving? The only way you'd acheive 3000 RPM in 5th gear is if you are going over the speed limit (at least in my area). Can I please get an answer?
 
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ruking

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Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
smalltownhick said:
OP - What exactly do you mean by "firm (75%) application of power"?
My take is "slightly to moderately aggressive". If you wanted to put numbers to it, 75% of 5,100 rpms (redline) are 3,825 rpms !!??

Here are a few other parameters:

1. max horsepower (140 hp) comes on @ 4,200 RPMS.
2. max torque (236 # ft of torque) comes on between 1,750-2,250 rpms
3. Redline is at 5,100 RPMS
4. lugging a TDI engine is a cardinal SIN
 
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40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
boutmuet said:
Does that mean you never use 6th gear when driving? The only way you'd acheive 3000 RPM in 5th gear is if you are going over the speed limit (at least in my area). Can I please get an answer?



THINK.

Bill
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
boutmuet said:
Does that mean you never use 6th gear when driving? The only way you'd acheive 3000 RPM in 5th gear is if you are going over the speed limit (at least in my area). Can I please get an answer?
Hi,

He is talking about shift points, not cruising RPMs.

Bob
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
PetiteFlower said:
The red line on my meter is at 4500?
The explanation of "redline" is as follows:

Drivbiwire said:
Redline is defined as the maximum rpm allowed by the engine, in the case of all TDI's it is 5,100 rpm. The maximum physical limit of a TDI engine due in part to it's short stroke is approximately 8,800 rpm (this is when you will throw a rod or damage a piston, this rpm is not possible unless you force a downshift into 1st gear while driving 80mph)

The instrument cluster shows a red BAND starting at or around 4600 rpm, most owners will find that very little power resides beyond this point due mostly to the ECU reducing fueling to respect the smoke map.
And what's your point about 4500?
 

PetiteFlower

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Location
Philadelphia, PA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Sedan
Is the point that there's not much purpose to going beyond 4500-4600, even if it won't hurt the engine?

Sorry, never learned to drive a manual...
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
PetiteFlower said:
Is the point that there's not much purpose to going beyond 4500-4600, even if it won't hurt the engine?

Sorry, never learned to drive a manual...
It WILL increase wear. Physics are physics.
 

TornadoRed

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Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
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PetiteFlower said:
Is the point that there's not much purpose to going beyond 4500-4600, even if it won't hurt the engine?

Sorry, never learned to drive a manual...
Here is a typical TDI dyno curve. As you can see, horsepower drops off sharply after 4200 rpm.



The shape of the horsepower and torque curves have not changed much since the original 1.9-liter TDIs in the mid-1990s. But you can search in the TDI Power Enhancements forum for dyno results from modded TDIs, the chipped TDIs have a different shape to the curves and often the power keeps increasing to nearly 5000 rpm before dropping off.

In a stock TDI, there is not much reason to rev beyond 4000 rpm before shifting. You might actually accelerate faster in a higher gear at lower rpm, closer to the torque peak. (Actually my memories of a stock TDI are getting a little fuzzy, but I think that's what it was like back in the day.)
 

supton

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Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
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'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
I did up, in Excel, plots showing best shift point, under the impression that, for maximum speed, I'd want to maximize torque/horsepower *to the wheels* at any given time. For example, in 1st, torque to wheels is 1478ft-lbs at 4400, and dropping rapidly. But, if I shift in the range from about 3400 to 4500, I only have about 1460lb-ft of torque to accelerate with, in second gear. [At the wheels, that is. It's 1460lb-ft for this range, as the torque curve is really flat in this region of engine operation. Shifting at 3400rpm drops to 1920rpm, and shifting at 4400 drops to 2470rpm, which is in that flat spot on the torque curve.]

At 3400rpm in first, I'm accelerating with 2250 to the wheels, and at 3600rpm I'm applying 2162, which is still higher than 1460 in second. Not until 4400rpm is reached does the torque to wheels drop down this 1460 level.

For my PD100, that puts shift points at 4400rpm in first, 4300 in 2nd, and 4200 in 3rd. Give or take a bit, as my curve fit of the torque curve plots I've seen aren't perfect.

[I can PM (I think) said Excel file and/or pdf if desired. I usually shift long before then, as I don't live at WOT. Quite frankly, often I pick an acceleration rate, and shift when it starts to slow down.]
 

Jack Frost

Veteran Member
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Nov 30, 2007
Location
Rural Manitoba
TDI
2009 Clean Diesel
By the way, no matter what gear you are in, the torque curve characteristics at the wheels are the same as the torgue characteristics experienced by the engine. The only difference is that the torque is reduced at the wheels - but by a constant factor determined by the gear ratios in the drivetrain.

That means that you will accelerate best and climb hills best at the plateau of the engine's torque curve. If the engine is revving any faster than that, you merely climb faster or go faster, but do not accelerate any better. The same is true in reverse.
 

Outie_ DI-D

New member
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Jul 12, 2009
Location
U.K.
TDI
turbodiesel
ruking said:
My take is "slightly to moderately aggressive". If you wanted to put numbers to it, 75% of 5,100 rpms (redline) are 3,825 rpms !!??

Here are a few other parameters:

1. max horsepower (140 hp) comes on @ 4,200 RPMS.
2. max torque (236 # ft of torque) comes on between 1,750-2,250 rpms
3. Redline is at 5,100 RPMS
4. lugging a TDI engine is a cardinal SIN

forgive me if this is has been asked..

how do you LUG a TDI engine

thanks
 
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