Break-in Period

[ILMTB]

Just found out that my CPO 2013 Jetta TDI had the 10,000 service and oil change done at 7,000 miles when the dealer certified it. Anything I should be aware of, or just follow the break in cycle?

 

[flyboy320]

I followed this procedure for my 2012 TDi, but I'm getting a gasser next week, and was wondering if this same break-in procedure would apply to gas engines as well?

 

[violinist56]

This answered a lot of my questions. Thanks!

 

[993er]

Updated 10/2012

New generation TDI's with Common Rail/DPF/SCR and those with DSG transmissions.

Drivebiwire, I have always followed the break-in procedures as outlined in the Owner's Manual, if published. In fact, I stopped in at the dealer the other day to familiarize myself with them prior to my TDI pick-up this coming week.

My question is, what is the source of your recommendations? Are they general break-in procedures for engines, gas engines, diesel engines or are they from a VW Technical / Service Bulletin?

Thanks!

 

[jerrypoller]

have I done permanent fuel economy damage

I have a 2012 Jetta TDI with 20,000 miles. Most of my driving is in/around town with some highway driving - 70%/30% - at about 70 mph. My rpm usually stays around 2000-2,200 on the highway. The only time I've had it over 3,000 is during acceleration to get on the highway. I've read in this thread that I should have run much higher rpm occasionally and regularly. With this much mileage on the car, has my driving caused permanent fuel economy loss? Is there anything I can do at this point to restore it to "normal" ranges. I currently get about 32 mpg overall and about 42 on the highway (I peak at 50mpg on the computer if I've driven for about 45 minutes at approximately 70 mph). Thanks for the advice.

 

[jerrypoller]

Updated 10/2012

New generation TDI's with Common Rail/DPF/SCR and those with DSG transmissions

Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.
-Keep rpms as close to 2000 rpm as possible when driving at a steady speed. This promotes optimum temperatures for the DPF and keeps the engine in the middle of its most efficient rpm range (1800-2200 rpm).
-Allow the DSG or automatic transmission to determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It knows better than you... Provided you have it trained to be biased to the sport mode the engines shift points will occur at the ideal ranges.


Redline is defined as the maximum rpm allowed by the engine, in the case of all TDI's it is 5,100 rpm. The maximum physical limit of a TDI engine due in part to it's short stroke is approximately 8,800 rpm (this is when you will throw a rod or damage a piston, this rpm is not possible unless you force a downshift into 1st gear while driving 80mph)

The instrument cluster shows a red BAND starting at or around 4600 rpm, most owners will find that very little power resides beyond this point due mostly to the ECU reducing fueling to respect the smoke map.

Adaptive Transmissions (DSG), "adapt" based on how you apply the power with your foot. Over time they will modify shift patterns with a bias to a "Sport" mode. Train the transmission to shift as close to the recomended rpm ranges below.

When your engine was first produced the motor was placed in a test cell and "Run-in" by a computer run dyno. The motor after the run-in was DRAINED OF ALL ITS FLUIDS (Oil, Coolant etc), the filters were replaced and a unique break-in oil was installed to promote a proper break-in once installed in the car as well as to protect the engine from corrosion during shipping to final assembly.

The "Break-in oil", YES VW does use a specially formulated "Break-In" oil formulated under an internal "TL" specification and produced by Fuchs. The oil is a group IV synthetic 5w30 formulated to comply with the LowSAPS VW507.00 requirements as well as the TL specifications for break-in. The oil is intended to allow a controlled rate of wear while protecting the engine and allowing the internal parts to seat proplerly during the engines first 10,000 road miles.

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm (75%) application of power is strongly recomended up to a maximum engine rpm of 3,800. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.
DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL UNTIL 10,000 MILES!

1,000-5,000 miles
Use the full 5,100 rpm power range. THIS DOES NOT MEAN DRIVE AROUND AT 5100 RPM! This DOES mean to find the rpm range where your cars best power resides. Most owners will find that the best engine operating range to be between 2000rpm and 4200 rpm for the purpose of acceleration. At all costs avoid using full throttle below 2000 rpm the ECU will attempt to prevent you from applying full power in this range, work with it and don't request it with your foot.
Continue to avoid steady rpms and avoid the use of cruise control. occasional application of full throttle (100%) is recomended to help seat the rings. City driving is ideal for breaking in a TDI due to frequent stops and acceleration. DO NOT CHANGE THE ENGINE OIL UNTIL 10,000 MILES!

5,000-10,000 miles
Use of the cruise control is ok at this point since most of the initial break in has occured. Continue to use occasional full throttle accelerations to continue to seat the rings. You will notice the engine become slightly louder during this phase due to less friction from the engine breaking in (normal for a diesel to become louder under lighter loads). If your going on a long drive and you are using the cruise, every so often step on the peddle to accelerate up about 20 mph then coast back down to your preset speed.

Your first oil change is due at 10,000 miles DO NOT change it early! Oil analysis supports 10,000 miles as being realistic for a first change interval. Wear metals will remain at safe levels during this entire first interval thanks to the initial run-in and flush at the factory before the engine was installed in your car.

10,000-60,000
This is when the rest of the break in occurs. The engine from the factory will check out with about 475psi of compression pressure out of the crate. It will take at least 60,000 miles to reach the peak pressure of 510 psi. For the most part once you get to 10,000 miles your compression will be around 490 psi meaning that most of the break in has occured.

60,000- and for the remaining life of the motor
The owners have followed the advice above and do not have any oil consumption issues. This also means that with the higher pressure the engine is more efficient returning optimal fuel economy and reduced smoke output. I am still of the opinion that if possible use a LowSAPS 5w40 instead of the 5w30 oils ie Mobil 1 ESP 5w40 formula M (MB229.51, .6 Sulfated Ash)

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Older model TDI's 96-2005

Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm application of power is strongly recomended up to 3,800 rpm. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.

1,000-5,000 miles
Use the full 5,100 rpm power range. Avoid steady rpms. Avoid the use of cruise control. Frequent application of full throttle is recomended to help seat the rings. City driving is ideal for breaking in a TDI due to frequent stops and acceleration. Once you get to 5,000 miles change the oil and perform your first service per the manual

5,000-10,000 miles
Use of the cruise control is ok at this point since most of the initial break in has occured. Continue to use occasional full throttle accelerations to continue to seat the rings. You will notice the engine become slightly louder during this phase due to less friction from the engine breaking in (normal for a diesel to become louder under lighter loads). If your going on a long drive and you are using the cruise, every so often step on the peddle to accelerate up about 20 mph then coast back down to your preset speed.

10,000-60,000
This is when the rest of the break in occurs. The engine from the factory will check out with about 475psi of compression pressure out of the crate. It will take at least 60,000 miles to reach the peak pressure of 550psi. For the most part once you get to 10,000 miles your compression will be around 510psi meaning that most of the break in has occured.

60,000-the life of the motor
The engines I have seen so far using a 5w40 oil are maintaining 550 psi of compression pressure with over 200,000 miles on the odometer. The owners have followed the advice above and do not have any oil consumption issues. This also means that with the higher pressure the engine is more efficient returning optimal fuel economy and reduced smoke output.

Sorry, I should have included the "break-in" quote, above, in my last post.
I have a 2012 Jetta TDI with 20,000 miles. Most of my driving is in/around town with some highway driving - 70%/30% - at about 70 mph. My rpm usually stays around 2000-2,200 on the highway. The only time I've had it over 3,000 is during acceleration to get on the highway. I've read in this thread that I should have run much higher rpm occasionally and regularly. With this much mileage on the car, has my driving caused permanent fuel economy loss? Is there anything I can do at this point to restore it to "normal" ranges. I currently get about 32 mpg overall and about 42 on the highway (I peak at 50mpg on the computer if I've driven for about 45 minutes at approximately 70 mph). Thanks for the advice.

 

[BITRBO]

Updated 10/2012
New generation TDI's with Common Rail/DPF/SCR and those with DSG transmissions
Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.
-Keep rpms as close to 2000 rpm as possible when driving at a steady speed. This promotes optimum temperatures for the DPF and keeps the engine in the middle of its most efficient rpm range (1800-2200 rpm).
-Allow the DSG or automatic transmission to determine the optimal gear and engine rpm. It knows better than you... Provided you have it trained to be biased to the sport mode the engines shift points will occur at the ideal ranges.

I have a coupe questions/conerns about with the above guidance... Are you really suppose to accelerate like this from every stop, at every start up, for the life of the vehicle?? If so, wouldn't this be hard on a "cold" engine? I've read several other guidelines that advise not to load a cold motor until properly warmed up...

Furthermore, I can see city mileage going straight down the tubes when accelerating to at least 3k rpms around town... This seems excessive. And what about stop & go traffic? Is this suggesting that you basically have to wait for a space to open in front of you and then floor it to the car that is stopped 50ft away? I'll get 5mpg doing this...

Please excuse me if this was already answered, as I haven't had a chance to read all 67pgs of this thread yet!

 

[Lensdude_com]

I have a coupe questions/conerns about with the above guidance... Are you really suppose to accelerate like this from every stop, at every start up, for the life of the vehicle?? If so, wouldn't this be hard on a "cold" engine? I've read several other guidelines that advise not to load a cold motor until properly warmed up...

Furthermore, I can see city mileage going straight down the tubes when accelerating to at least 3k rpms around town... This seems excessive. And what about stop & go traffic? Is this suggesting that you basically have to wait for a space to open in front of you and then floor it to the car that is stopped 50ft away? I'll get 5mpg doing this...

Please excuse me if this was already answered, as I haven't had a chance to read all 67pgs of this thread yet!

There's no mention of acceleration, but quick acceleration will wear the engine faster especially before normal operating temperature has been reached...
Revving the engine above 2500 rpm before the normal operating temperature has been reach provides tighter gap tolerances so the sliding and rotating bits can become better acquainted.
...the rate your car accelerates is controlled by your right foot and not from an On/Off switch so it's very easy for others to accelerate with the flow of traffic and still shift at the appropriate rpm.

 

[BITRBO]

There's no mention of acceleration, but quick acceleration will wear the engine faster especially before normal operating temperature has been reached...
Revving the engine above 2500 rpm before the normal operating temperature has been reach provides tighter gap tolerances so the sliding and rotating bits can become better acquainted.
...the rate your car accelerates is controlled by your right foot and not from an On/Off switch so it's very easy for others to accelerate with the flow of traffic and still shift at the appropriate rpm.

Ok, but I guess I'm still a bit confused, and I suppose I should have clarified that my TDI has DSG, so unless I provide substantial throttle input the trans will shift way below the above-recommend rpm's. In other words, accelerating to 2500 rpm cold is about 50% throttle by my estimate and 3000 rpm when warm is about 75% throttle by my estimate. Anything less and the DSG shifts early. Doing this after every stop sign, light, whatever will not only KILL my city mileage but place undo stress and wear/tear on the engine and transmission that is not exactly a spring chicken at ~138k!

I mean, I'm all for opening her up at least every / every-other startup to clean out the cobwebs, but I'm not sure the OP's guidance works for DSG trans cars. Manual trans cars sure, cause you can slowly make your way up to those rpm's but not with the DSG unless you drive in Sport mode all day long!

I think 1800 rpm is more appropriate shift point to balance fuel economy and engine health, but maybe I'm way off. IDK

 

[TornadoRed]

unless you drive in Sport mode all day long!

And what's wrong with using sport mode during the early breaking-in period?

 

[BITRBO]

And what's wrong with using sport mode during the early breaking-in period?

Nothing, I suppose... But obviously my car is already WELL broken-in by now and driving around town in Sport mode for the sake of shifting manually to 3000 rpm at every gear change seems like a total waste of diesel fuel and engine/trans life.

IDK about everyone else, but the DSG in my '09 JSW typically shifts anywhere between 1600-1900rpm (depending on the gear) if I drive normal... I'm inclined to believe the engineers at VW programmed the transmission that way on purpose, so not sure why I should force it to do otherwise.

 

[TornadoRed]

BITRBO: the main thing is avoid babying the engine all the time. It is not necessary to accelerate enthusiastically from every stoplight or on every freeway on-ramp, but it's a good idea to do it occasionally -- and then to settle in to a normal cruising speed.

 

[BITRBO]

Thanks Tornado - I think that's basically what I've been doing so far: letting the car chose the optimal gear 90% of the time and opening it up (WOT) every now and then... I was just a bit concerned when I read Drivbiwire's OP, as it's almost impossible to hit those rpm's in a DSG w/o half flooring it, and his guidance was a little unclear as to the frequency of that exercise regime. Maybe I just took it a bit too literal, but I'm sure I haven't been the only person with this question

Thx again!

 

[TornadoRed]

Thanks Tornado - I think that's basically what I've been doing so far: letting the car chose the optimal gear and opening it up from time to time. I was just a bit concerned when I read Drivbiwire's OP, as it's almost impossible to hit those rpm's in a DSG w/o half flooring it, and his guidance was a little unclear as to the frequency of that exercise regime. Maybe I just took it a bit too literal, but I'm sure I haven't been the only person with this question

You are getting in on the end of a thread that started in 2003 -- two TDI generations ago. There is/was a newer thread, begun in 2009 by Drivbiwire, but which has been locked because it went off-topic. You can check it out here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2621267

 

[BITRBO]

You are getting in on the end of a thread that started in 2003 -- two TDI generations ago. There is/was a newer thread, begun in 2009 by Drivbiwire, but which has been locked because it went off-topic. You can check it out here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2621267

Ahh, thanks. Read the last several pages of drama... Didn't mean to start anything, just trying to get educated.

 

[apcopatech]

change oil massage on dash

Dealerships rarely if ever do anything for free, unless it's explicitly covered by warranty... and even then they will try to screw you. So take what is free and after the warranty expires, find a good independent VW shop and stay far away from the dealerships.
If you've read the top post (#2 actually), then you've probably figured out that how you drive between 10k miles and 60k miles on the odometer will determine the condition of the engine when it reaches 60k miles.
But there is anecdotal evidence, at least, that vigorous exercise is good for most all TDI engines, so unless you baby it your TDI will be running like a champ... better than new. As for fuel mileage, it should improve as well, but there are a lot of variables which make it hard to generalize.

what happens when I take my tdi to the dealer because my dash tells me to change the oil, but it only has around 7k miles?

 

[apcopatech]

did they change it or did they just reset it?
and if they did change it what happens now?

 

[Lensdude_com]

what happens when I take my tdi to the dealer because my dash tells me to change the oil, but it only has around 7k miles?

I know this bit of DBW wisdom has been posted before but obviously this thread has grown beyond the reading depth of recent posters...
so please read:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

 

[apcopatech]

I know this bit of DBW wisdom has been posted before but obviously this thread has grown beyond the reading depth of recent posters...
so please read:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

Yes I got that, but my point is that the car tells you take it in for an oil change.
What do I do?
Disregard it, or do I need to invest on a portable thingy to plug into my car and reset it myself?

 

[apcopatech]

STOP STOP STOP!

The ORIGINAL factory APPROVED oil change interval is 30,000 miles! YES 30,000 MILES!!

Did you comprehend that?

THE ORGINAL OIL CHANGE INTERVAL APPROVAL IS 30,000 MILES!!!

Now that I have that off my chest,

VW reduced the interval from 30,000 miles to 10,000 miles in the US market...any guesses why?

Because people like you either:
1) Can't read the owners manual
2) Don't trust the car makers
3) Can't follow directions
4) Fail to adhere to the service indicator in the car


I've already read all that.
That is why I said that their was a massage on my dash saying to take it in for an oil change at 6800 to 6900 miles or so, no where near 10k.

 

[TornadoRed]

I know this bit of DBW wisdom has been posted before but obviously this thread has grown beyond the reading depth of recent posters...
so please read:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2340534&postcount=27

Things have changed a bit since DB wrote that in 2008 -- newer TDIs now have diesel particulate filters, and one consequence is an increased chance for fuel contamination of the engine oil.

There have been many used-oil tests of samples drawn from the factory fill, after 10k miles on the odometer. They all show pretty much the same thing: there are lots of wear metals, as one would expect with a new engine; there are unusual but consistent results like high levels of potassium; and the engine oil still has plenty of additives.

But, some samples show higher levels of fuel contamination. And some show a viscosity that is below the normal range for a 30-weight oil. So there are instances where a 10k-mile oil change interval (OCI) might be a little bit too long.

Additionally, in the old TDIs we can use engine oils like Mobil 1 5w40 that have a higher total base number (TBN). A higher TBN means the oil can neutralize acids longer, allowing for an OCI longer than 10k miles. But the oils meeting VAG 507.00 do not have such a high TBN, so 10k miles is the maximum -- and as I've pointed out, a slightly shorter OCI might be best for some engines.

I don't know how the indicator on your dash works, when it tells you to change the oil. I don't know if it's measuring particles in the oil, or reduced viscosity, or some other variable. My _guess_ is that it is accurately determining that your oil needs to be changed soon, though not necessarily right away. I think I would go ahead and change it within 1000 miles of illumination of the dashboard indicator, or after 10k miles, whichever comes first.

 

[TornadoRed]

Yes I got that, but my point is that the car tells you take it in for an oil change.
What do I do?
Disregard it, or do I need to invest on a portable thingy to plug into my car and reset it myself?

I do not know if you can still reset the oil change notification without VCDS. But you can try this:

To reset the service interval reminder light

1. With key off, press and hold the trip reset button.

2. Turn key to on but do not start.

3. While still holding trip reset, press the clock minute button. This resets the reminder.

Try it and report back if it works or not.

 

[apcopatech]

Things have changed a bit since DB wrote that in 2008 -- newer TDIs now have diesel particulate filters, and one consequence is an increased chance for fuel contamination of the engine oil.
There have been many used-oil tests of samples drawn from the factory fill, after 10k miles on the odometer. They all show pretty much the same thing: there are lots of wear metals, as one would expect with a new engine; there are unusual but consistent results like high levels of potassium; and the engine oil still has plenty of additives.
But, some samples show higher levels of fuel contamination. And some show a viscosity that is below the normal range for a 30-weight oil. So there are instances where a 10k-mile oil change interval (OCI) might be a little bit too long.
Additionally, in the old TDIs we can use engine oils like Mobil 1 5w40 that have a higher total base number (TBN). A higher TBN means the oil can neutralize acids longer, allowing for an OCI longer than 10k miles. But the oils meeting VAG 507.00 do not have such a high TBN, so 10k miles is the maximum -- and as I've pointed out, a slightly shorter OCI might be best for some engines.
I don't know how the indicator on your dash works, when it tells you to change the oil. I don't know if it's measuring particles in the oil, or reduced viscosity, or some other variable. My _guess_ is that it is accurately determining that your oil needs to be changed soon, though not necessarily right away. I think I would go ahead and change it within 1000 miles of illumination of the dashboard indicator, or after 10k miles, whichever comes first.

I think I've said before that I've never owned a new car nor a VW nor a Diesel, but that was probably over a year ago.
but to be more detailed to what my car was indicating was -
every time I put the key in and turned the engine over it would give me a massage saying I needed to change the oil in a certain number of days, and obviously it was counting down every day.

 

[apcopatech]

I do not know if you can still reset the oil change notification without VCDS. But you can try this:
To reset the service interval reminder light
1. With key off, press and hold the trip reset button.
2. Turn key to on but do not start.
3. While still holding trip reset, press the clock minute button. This resets the reminder.
Try it and report back if it works or not.

well I can't do that now cause I've already took it in last month, and probably won't do it the next time either cause if take it in they will say that need to see the indication on the dashboard?

 

[TornadoRed]

well I can't do that now cause I've already took it in last month, and probably won't do it the next time either cause if take it in they will say that need to see the indication on the dashboard?

If the indicator is coming on because the oil is worn out or too contaminated, then you should be able to go ahead and test the reset function.

If it is coming on after a fixed number of miles, then you need to find out now before it costs you extra for unnecessary oil changes.

 

[apcopatech]

If the indicator is coming on because the oil is worn out or too contaminated, then you should be able to go ahead and test the reset function.
If it is coming on after a fixed number of miles, then you need to find out now before it costs you extra for unnecessary oil changes.

well right now I don't have a problem with that because of the vw carefree maintenance for the first 3 years of ownership, and that was the first time I see this.

 

[apcopatech]

hopefully it's just the time frame, 10k miles or a year which ever comes first
I did buy it over a year ago.
I was just making a big fuzz about it because of the info about being 30k miles.

 

[apcopatech]

or the way that I treat my car
even though I don't hardly drive it, I've had it for more then 13 months and I barely have under 7800 miles on it

 

[apcopatech]

thanks guys

 

[SamFromLondon]

I assume these break-in and engine exercise rules also apply to larger TDI engines such as the 3.0 TDI in the A5?

In D (and in slow moving traffic) I struggle to force the car to shift at 2500/3000 unless in manual mode.

So my plan is use manual in (moving) traffic and then use D (and aggressive right foot) at other times. Is this a good plan?