Break-in Period

loggin

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Location
AMD Processor Tech
TDI
Golf-02-Indigo Blue
I think I just answered my own question with this excerpt from the Ross-Tech VAG-COM site:

Q: Can I use VAG-COM to "Flash" the chip in my ECU?
A: No, we have investigated flashing, but found that there are several different methods of encryption for various VW/Audi vehicles, as well as delicate licensing issues to overcome. Therefore, we do not intend to pursue flashing any further at this time. <font color="red">You cannot alter</font> boost, timing, fueling, <font color="red">rev limiter</font>, or speed limiter <font color="red">with VAG-COM</font>.
it seems the statement <font color="red"> delicate licensing issues </font> determines the <font color="blue">we do not intend to pursue flashing any further at this time </font> therefore <font color="purple"> You cannot with VAG-COM</font> any thoughts
 

wolfsburg_de

Ross-Tech AssociateVendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
Lansdale, PA USA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6MT
You are reading too much into that FAQ entry. We looked into flashing (it would be a completely separate product) but decided not to pursue it any further. I know of no way to use VAG-COM to performance tune your ECU. For that, you'd need a chip.
 

gern_blanston

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Location
PNW
TDI
Golf, '03, Silver
"cruise control at 65-70 mph for any length of time is really bad for my Golf TDi. Don't knwo wbout any of yours out there but for mine it's a disaster. If I run 40 miles on cruise control at constant highway speeds [2,200 rpms] when I exit the highway I blow huge clouds of smoke from every stop sign"
If this is the case, you'd best get your car to the shop pronto. There's something wrong with it.
Running your car to 3,000 rpm on every shift once the engine's warmed up won't hurt anything engine-wise, but it certainly will cause fuel economy to plummet.
We've run 2 A3 TDI's to 120,000 miles (yes, I know they don't have VNT's), shifting at 2,200 rpm, which keeps the engine right around its torque peak, and running 'em up to 4,000 at full throttle once in a while at a stop light.
It's a free country, of course, and everyone can operate their car as they please, but I won't sacrifice my mileage to run the engine that hard for no reason.
And does cylinder pressure vary directly with rpm? Don't boost and combustion temperature have a lot to do with that?
WFO at 2,000 will put a lot more pressure in the cylinder than foot-off-throttle at 4,600.
 

Rob Mayercik

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Location
NJ, U.S.A.
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS, Baltic Green/Beige
As far as the Automatic transmission TDI's the Transmission ECU is already programmed with a "Warm Up" program to facilitate a faster warm up with increase rpm shift points, in other words its all taken care of so just drive it and forget about it. I doubt that you would ever see a jammed VNT on any automatic transmission provided that its not allowed to idle excessively.

DB
Now that is useful for automatics. Thank you.

Rob
 

BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
More comment regarding shift points. DBW, I've been experimenting with your suggested rpm's and the thing about is, if you SHIFT at your recommended rpm's, the car really does perform more smoothly. Whether anyone wants to SUSTAIN those rpm's while cruising is, I believe, a different story.

So 2500rpm's while cold, 3000 (or a little more, mind you!) when warmed up.

Thanks
 

TTown

Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Tulsa
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS TDI 5 speed wagon (white w/ beige leather)
My 2003 GLS TDI 5speed wagon has about 2,200 miles on it and I've been following your break-in suggestions pretty closely. I do mostly city driving and don't have a very long commute (less than 5 miles) to work each day. I've sort of got a heavy foot anyway & my commute consists of a quick zip onto the expressway & then a bit of stop & go to get to my parking garage. This car has so much getup&go that it's hard to resist zipping around but I'm unimpressed with the gas mileage I'm seeing so far. The dog days of summer are here in Oklahoma & I'm using the AC all the time. I'm averaging about 38mpg since I got the car & don't know if it's the AC, the city driving or my heavy foot that's causing the lousy mpg. I know it's not broken in yet but come on.... shouldn't I be getting better mpg than this?
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
My 2003 GLS TDI 5speed wagon has about 2,200 miles on it and I've been following your break-in suggestions pretty closely. I do mostly city driving and don't have a very long commute (less than 5 miles) to work each day. I've sort of got a heavy foot anyway & my commute consists of a quick zip onto the expressway & then a bit of stop & go to get to my parking garage. This car has so much getup&go that it's hard to resist zipping around but I'm unimpressed with the gas mileage I'm seeing so far. The dog days of summer are here in Oklahoma & I'm using the AC all the time. I'm averaging about 38mpg since I got the car & don't know if it's the AC, the city driving or my heavy foot that's causing the lousy mpg. I know it's not broken in yet but come on.... shouldn't I be getting better mpg than this?
GAS mileage?
You're talking DIESEL, or FUEL mileage? (GAS mileage should be zero)


Be patient with the mileage. It only gets better over time. Given that the TDI takes so long to fully break-in, one of the consequences is that it takes some miles (about ~ 15-20k miles) to see the mileage improvements, so be patient.

I've found that my tendency to zip around doing spirited driving and highway cruising at 80+ MPH does cause the mileage to take a bit of a hit. The mileage hit is nowhere near as big as it would be if I were driving a gasser, especially a turbo gasser. (I used to drive a Subaru WRX.)

I'm getting around 42-48MPG with my bone stock 2002 Golf TDI 5-speed, and I aggressively haul arse with it on the highway all the time. I've got 62k miles on it, driven *HARD* all the time. I've explored the entire RPM range as drivbiwire suggests and have done so since day one. I know I would get better mileage if I slowed down a bit. NAHHH!


I've found from my TDI experience over the past year that it really does take around 60k miles to fully break in. My performance is also way better now than it was when I had around 2k miles on it. Oil consumption is pretty much negligible. There are TDIclum members with well over 100k miles on their TDIs and their performance and mileage are STILL improving! (How many gassers can do that?)

Congratulations on the new ride and get out there and DRIVE it as drivbiwire suggests. Caution: There is no known medical cure for "TDI addiction".


~ n1das
 

Mrkus

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon, Bleu
Wow! 15-20k for a break-in period? Amazing...
I've only had my TDI for a week and thought I would be seeing better mileage as well. I'm not good at estimating, but figure a half tank of diesel has given me around 300 miles...I haven't broken this down by gallons yet, but it seems kind of low esp. compared with previous Sentra's owned.

This is a little unrelated to the original post, but would people here follow a dealer's advice to have the oil changed initially at 2.5k, then *again* at 5k and repeat at 5k intervals after that? The thinking behind this seemed to be that 1)it can't hurt and 2) we don't know the long-term durability of synthetic oil yet and 3) this should be changed earlier during the breakin period.
 

L8Apex87GT4Door

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
PNW
TDI
Golf, 2005, Anthracite Blue
Mrkus
I would only follow that advice if Break in Oil was used at the 2.5K and 5K points. If you switch to fully synthetic that early your motor will never break in and you will have a true OIL BURNER.
 

Mrkus

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon, Bleu
I would only follow that advice if Break in Oil was used at the 2.5K and 5K points. If you switch to fully synthetic that early your motor will never break in and you will have a true OIL BURNER.
Not quite sure I understand this, but thanks for responding. The car is new and is already furnished with synthetic. I thought the 2500 mile oil change was too soon for a synthetic, even if they Are paying for my first oil change. I was thinking of having it done at 5000.
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
5K for the first, at 10k for the second, then every 10k thereafter.

'long-term durability of synthetics'? It's well known and well documented that synthetics have excellent long-term durability. Infact, that is one of the primary reasons for using them.
 

TalonGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Location
Markham, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta Auto
As far as the Automatic transmission TDI's the Transmission ECU is already programmed with a "Warm Up" program to facilitate a faster warm up with increase rpm shift points, in other words its all taken care of so just drive it and forget about it. I doubt that you would ever see a jammed VNT on any automatic transmission provided that its not allowed to idle excessively.

DB
I'm about to pick up my first TDI (will also be first new car). It will be automatic. How much go-pedal (almost said "gas") should be applied during the warm up period? How about during the break-in period?

Ie. Should I accelerate with a) Normal driving speed b) Spirited driving c) WOT the sucker

If a detailed description as the one for 5-speeds can be given, that'd be great.

On my soon to be ex-Talon (5-speed, turbo), I'd drive under 0psi boost and shift below 3000rpm (7500 redline) until the car was warmed. Afterwards, I drive it like I stole it. The car was used, so I never got a chance to break it in, but even at 150K km, the car has rock-solid factory spec compression.

(Soon to be ex)TalonGuy
 

luckyjoe

Active member
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
TDI
Jetta Variant, 2003, Candy White
DBW and all,

I just turned 1000 miles this morning, and I've followed the break-in guidelines pretty well. One thing I don't understand is the boost pressure, or more importantly, when is the boost high/low? Is it strictly rpm-related or is engine load an importnat factor? This seems to be very important knowledge (as you have pointed out) but is elusive to a new Tdi'er (me).

For example, what is the boost pressure doing as I run 3rd up to 3800rpm, shift to 4th, accelerate, then reduce speed over time to around 2000rpm?

Thanks,

Tom P.
 

NewJettaGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
TDI
'04 Passat Sedan
Joe,

Here are the steps for breaking in your new TDI courtesy of DriveByWire:

Rules that apply for the life of the car
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.

First 1,000 miles
Keep rpms below 3,800. Avoid steady rpms. Frequent firm application of power is strongly recomended up to 3,800 rpm. Avoid the use of cruise control so that you naturally fluctuate the power with your foot.

1,000-5,000 miles
Use the full 5,100 rpm power range. Avoid steady rpms. Avoid the use of cruise control. Frequent application of full throttle is recomended to help seat the rings. City driving is ideal for breaking in a TDI due to frequent stops and acceleration. Once you get to 5,000 miles change the oil and perform your first service per the manual

5,000-10,000 miles
Use of the cruise control is ok at this point since most of the initial break in has occured. Continue to use occasional full throttle accelerations to continue to seat the rings. You will notice the engine become slightly louder during this phase due to less friction from the engine breaking in (normal for a diesel to become louder under lighter loads). If your going on a long drive and you are using the cruise, every so often step on the peddle to accelerate up about 20 mph then coast back down to your preset speed.

10,000-60,000
This is when the rest of the break in occurs. The engine from the factory will check out with about 475psi of compression pressure out of the crate. It will take at least 60,000 miles to reach the peak pressure of 550psi. For the most part once you get to 10,000 miles your compression will be around 510psi meaning that most of the break in has occured.

60,000-the life of the motor
The engines I have seen so far using a 5w40 oil are maintaining 550 psi of compression pressure with over 200,000 miles on the odometer. The owners have followed the advice above and do not have any oil consumption issues. This also means that with the higher pressure the engine is more efficient returning optimal fuel economy and reduced smoke output.

If you follow these rules, you should enjoy many miles of pleasurable driving...
 

JettaWagonTDI1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Location
Alabama
TDI
Jetta Wagon GLS 2002 Candy White with Gold Pinstripe
I agree with the break-in period advice. Unfortunately, my Jetta Wagon has just under 54,000 on it now and it appears to use a tad bit of oil between oil changes.

I haven't traced the problem, other than I may not have torqued the oil pan nut enough because each time I crawl under the car I notice that I am able to tighten the nut a teeny bit.

Maybe my car uses a bit of oil due to CCV gasses. I am not sure. I usually add about 4-8 ounces of Delvac-1 between oil changes, so I do not consider this to be a huge issue right now.

Do any of you folks have any thoughts about my situation regarding oil consumption? I drive mostly at highway speeds, roughly 65-80 mph. I suspect that driving at this rate of speed does tend to cause some consumption.

Thanks in advance.

Shawn
 

Papachristou

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2003
Location
Memphis, TN
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE DSG
MileageDude said:
So, have people broken in their new TDIs on long trips? Sounds like not the best idea, unless you want to look like a doofus on the freeway, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, etc....?
Wrong, simply down shift your engine at the same speed. If you're at 65mph in 5th, drop to 3rd and maintain the same speed +(-) 5mph. When you leave your coffee stop let your rpm in 1st, 2nd and 3rd vary upwards in engine speed ->not your mph travling speed by.

It's actually simple to load the motor and not alter the speeds too much. It's actually a no brainer. I used 4th most of the break-in period at highway speeds. I rarely used over drive and nevr Cruise Control. I also layed off the pedal completely and floored the pedal to activate the vains on the turbo to get the best bang for the buck.

You can also drive around your neighborhood at 30mph in 1st gear too and have the same rpm as if doing +90mph on the freeway.

For what it's worth my break-in is exactly what was wrote in the outline above. I hope for 550psi. I've earned it.

but you wont have the cooling on the 90 mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

LustForTDi

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Location
OR
TDI
Golf, 2002, Black
This is great! I bought a 2002 golf TDi and I love every bit of it. When I drive it, I really DRIVE it!
It seems most people here are saying that I should drive the car pretty hard most of the time? Am I correct?

2002 golf TDi non-chipped 100% stock 12,000 miles
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
04', 05', 06' TDI's. Audi SQ5, RAM Rebel
You are correct sir! Get a chip! Then you can REALLY DRIVE IT!
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
The questions have popped again so a revival is in order.

DB
 

VicTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Location
West Coast, Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta Sport Wagon
To DBW (mainly) - have read the discussion with interest and the 2500/3000 guidelines you recommend. Have also seen the post on the auto trans shifting at different points if the engine is cold. The 2500/3000 shift points would be hard to maintain with an automatic, but the 2004 coming with tiptronic makes me wonder what you feel about this. Would you personally drive the tiptronic more like the standard then and shift it at 2500cold and 3000 hot?
 

03BeigeGolfTDI

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2003
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
03 Mojave Beige Golf TDI GL
Hi all,
I've broken the 1000 mark and I'm looking for clarification on DBW's comments. How often should I be using the "full power band" in the 1-5k miles? Only owning gassers previously, I rarely went to redline during any sort of breakin period. I just want to try and follow the guidelines as close as reasonably possible. (too zealot-like? yes - but isn't that what this site is all about??? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks and oh yeah...53 mpg on 2nd tank of gas (plain ol' diesel, no additives).
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
DBW has a lot more experience than I do, so if he says that after 1000 miles it's okay to use the entire power band, then that's okay with me. FWIW I kept it below 3600-3800 for the first 1000 miles, then made 4000 my unofficial redline. Very rarely do I go to 4200.

53 mpg is wonderful. I would suggest, however, that you continue to monitor your fuel economy but not necessarily try to maximize economy by holding down revs. Driving it hard is actually good for the engine, and if it causes your mileage to drop down into the high 40's, well, that's still awfully good. And you will discover how much fun a TDI can be to drive. (Just keep an eye out for the sheriff and the highway patrol.)
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
When I say use the full rpm range that means what ever you feel comfortable using. The idea is not to rev the engine and keep it revved, the idea is to LOAD the engine. When getting onto a highway revving the engine in 3rd and 4th "Load" the engine on the on ramp but this also means using a large portion of the rpm band perhaps even getting into the 4,000+ range. Listen for the turbo, when you hear it whooshing this means you are loading the engine or another way to put it is you are "On Boost". This is what seats the rings.

Rpms are also important in terms of getting the turbos' VGV's to cycle. As a rule the no lower than 2,500/3,000 shift rule is to allow the turbo's VGV's to cycle and clear the turbo preventing a jammed VNT.

Keep it simple and load the engine but don't baby it by shifting at 1,900 unless you want to buy a new turbo.

DB
 

TalonGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Location
Markham, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta Auto
Unfortunately hard for us auto folks. What do you recommend? I just occasionally stomp on it and allow it to go to redline, shift, go up some more. This is after the 1000 mile breakin.

Also, is taking it up to 175km/h (110mph) when the car has 2000km (1250 miles) on the odometer bad? /images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
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