iluvmytdi
Veteran Member
It ain't gonna warm up till you GO! So GO GO GO!
Break-in Period
- Thread starter iluvmytdi
- Start date
TurbineTech
Veteran Member
At the risk of stirring up the pot- anyone who actually believes what a car salesman tells them should consider himself lucky that he ended up with a TDI at all, as he could very easily have ended up with a Kia or a Yugo.
Unfortunately I bought my car used and did not have the luxury of being able to break it in from new but I am sure most car manufacturers would rather that our engines did not last so long and that we wouold have to buy another. Besides I'm sure there a lot of people who might think that such a "complicated" break-in might be too much for them or perhaps the logistics involed in printing it into the handbook is cost inhibitive.
Anyway...I'm rambling now.
I remain convinced that there are people who know more about these cars than can be found at any dealership, and many frequent this site and all I can say is thank god!
Unfortunately I bought my car used and did not have the luxury of being able to break it in from new but I am sure most car manufacturers would rather that our engines did not last so long and that we wouold have to buy another. Besides I'm sure there a lot of people who might think that such a "complicated" break-in might be too much for them or perhaps the logistics involed in printing it into the handbook is cost inhibitive.
Anyway...I'm rambling now.
I remain convinced that there are people who know more about these cars than can be found at any dealership, and many frequent this site and all I can say is thank god!
I think that that post and other similar ones like it are just academic... people said that the TDI won't warm up at idle, and other people tried it just to prove it.
But think about it... running the engine at low temperatures is not a good thing. Would you rather drive for 5 minutes to bring it up to full temp or let it idle for 30 and bring the temp needle up one tick?
But think about it... running the engine at low temperatures is not a good thing. Would you rather drive for 5 minutes to bring it up to full temp or let it idle for 30 and bring the temp needle up one tick?
IowaA4TDI
Active member
My rule on my Cummins is this: plug it in overnight below 30 degrees (totally unnecessary, but in an effort to reduce wear at startup by having a slightly warmer block, oil and coolant). Start it up in the morning and let it idle for 15-30 seconds, then drive off. I have 3 miles of stone roads before the highway, so it gets a chance to warm up in 2nd and 3rd gear before I have to do any accellerating. By the end of 3 miles, the needle is usually showing some temp. My truck's a 98 ISB and it is just coming up on 200,000 miles. The only problem I've had with it is a single lift-pump failure. Knock on wood...
Hi
I was surprised to read these break in instructions in that it seems to suggest that for the life of the car you need to keep the revs above 2500 when cold and 3000 when warm. Have I read this right?
I drive at between 1500 to 2500 at all times without lugging it - I cant imagine going around at above 2500 and 3000. Since maximum torque is at 1900 rpm, wouldnt this be the point that gives maximum seating pressure on the rings regardless of what boost is applied by the turbo
?
I might have to change my habits!
Steven
I was surprised to read these break in instructions in that it seems to suggest that for the life of the car you need to keep the revs above 2500 when cold and 3000 when warm. Have I read this right?
I drive at between 1500 to 2500 at all times without lugging it - I cant imagine going around at above 2500 and 3000. Since maximum torque is at 1900 rpm, wouldnt this be the point that gives maximum seating pressure on the rings regardless of what boost is applied by the turbo
I might have to change my habits!
Steven
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Rules that apply for the life of the carHi
I was surprised to read these break in instructions in that it seems to suggest that for the life of the car you need to keep the revs above 2500 when cold and 3000 when warm. Have I read this right?
I drive at between 1500 to 2500 at all times without lugging it - I cant imagine going around at above 2500 and 3000. Since maximum torque is at 1900 rpm, wouldnt this be the point that gives maximum seating pressure on the rings regardless of what boost is applied by the turbo?
I might have to change my habits!
Steven
-When the engine is cold (below the first 3 white marks at the base of the temp gage) rev the engine to at least 2,500 rpms.
-When the engine is warmed up (above the first three white marks) Rev the engine to no less than 3,000 rpms.
The reason for this is to keep the turbo on boost, clear the VNT guide vanes and apply firm pressure to the rings for optimal sealing against blow-by gasses. The rings need the boost to seal since its a turbo charged engine, babying the engine is detrimental and will lead to issues with compression if done so for very long.
Do yourself a favor and don't drive your car like that. A TDI with a VNT will jam the vanes and in time kill the compression due to the lack of boost pressure and jammed rings.
The guide vanes need to move throughout their entire range, driving your car in that fashion is not allowing them to cycle and allowing an accumulation of soot to build up preventing the vanes from moving.
DB
gdr703
Veteran Member
Sorry Drivbiwire, but I have great difficulty believing the above information. This is a diesel, right? I cannot believe that for the benefit of keeping the soot levels down in the turbo I must keep the puppy above 2500 rpm at all times, and 3000 rpm when warm.
Jeepers you gotta be joking.
You say "in time" the sooting, compression gone turbo jam-up will happen. Would you care to put a value to that, please? My car has 22k mile on it, and never been driven as you suggest, if I take a look into my EGR will I see it all sooted up already? or when should i see soot build up.
By the way, nice anime of the turbo vanes.
Jeepers you gotta be joking.
You say "in time" the sooting, compression gone turbo jam-up will happen. Would you care to put a value to that, please? My car has 22k mile on it, and never been driven as you suggest, if I take a look into my EGR will I see it all sooted up already? or when should i see soot build up.
By the way, nice anime of the turbo vanes.
GeWilli
Top Post Dawg
I think DBW is saying when accelerating do not shift below 3000 rpms.
You can cruise at what ever low RPM you want. rev it up when shifting. It will make a difference
You can cruise at what ever low RPM you want. rev it up when shifting. It will make a difference
BeetleGo
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Lesseeeee... I bought my car with 220 miles on it. Those were all demonstrator miles, so I can pretty much assume that the car was not warmed up when 'Joe Testdriver' punched it in city traffic to 'see what it would do.' If this behavior had gone on for thousands of miles I wouldn't have considered buying it. For the first 200 miles I can get over it. All that 'flooring it' probably went a long way toward seating my rings nicely.
During the break-in period (first 1,000 miles), I varied the speed, punched it periodically once it was fully warmed up, and used cruise control from time to time, but not for extended distances. After I past 1,000 miles, I explored the upper reaches of the rpm's from time to time, and often demonstrated torque to my friends' amusement.
My car is a serious 'tighty' - at 10k miles, my oil level does not BUDGE from where it was when it was changed last. Seriously. Nada. I'm not alone. Others have experienced this. I have to wonder if it wasn't the hard charges that helps seat my engine so nicely.
However, when DBW suggested KEEPING my rpm's as high as he suggests, especially on a cold engine I have to take pause. There ain't no way I'm revving past 2400rpm's while my engine is cold, if I can help it. Am I missing something here? While your engine is cold, if you exceed 2400rpms, you turn off your glowplugs. Best to let the engine heat up with an easy foot. Once you're up to temp, do what you like. Rev the stink out of it if you like, but remember that your peak efficiency is between 1800-2200rpms.
Lugging in principle is bad, but on flat land if you're in heavy traffic or trolling for a parking spot in the city, idling down to 1000rpm's in 1st and 2nd gear acts like a low-speed cruise control and is very handy. Much less wear on the clutch, versus all that rowing. I'm not suggesting that you do this for miles on end, but it IS useful and one of the cool things about the torque our engines can muster.
My $.02
During the break-in period (first 1,000 miles), I varied the speed, punched it periodically once it was fully warmed up, and used cruise control from time to time, but not for extended distances. After I past 1,000 miles, I explored the upper reaches of the rpm's from time to time, and often demonstrated torque to my friends' amusement.
My car is a serious 'tighty' - at 10k miles, my oil level does not BUDGE from where it was when it was changed last. Seriously. Nada. I'm not alone. Others have experienced this. I have to wonder if it wasn't the hard charges that helps seat my engine so nicely.
However, when DBW suggested KEEPING my rpm's as high as he suggests, especially on a cold engine I have to take pause. There ain't no way I'm revving past 2400rpm's while my engine is cold, if I can help it. Am I missing something here? While your engine is cold, if you exceed 2400rpms, you turn off your glowplugs. Best to let the engine heat up with an easy foot. Once you're up to temp, do what you like. Rev the stink out of it if you like, but remember that your peak efficiency is between 1800-2200rpms.
Lugging in principle is bad, but on flat land if you're in heavy traffic or trolling for a parking spot in the city, idling down to 1000rpm's in 1st and 2nd gear acts like a low-speed cruise control and is very handy. Much less wear on the clutch, versus all that rowing. I'm not suggesting that you do this for miles on end, but it IS useful and one of the cool things about the torque our engines can muster.
My $.02
dieselpowerbug
Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2002
- Location
- maine
im not sure what DBW was trying to relay to us but i have never had to keep my baby above 3000 to avoid soot build up in the turbo. i could see doing this if you were running HFO in your engine but you are not (hopefully). the majority of the time i shift below 3000 rpm and usually run at about 1800-2300 rpm. the only time i run my engine higher than 3000 rpm for an extended amount of time is on the highway doing about 85 mph. my NB has 113,000 on it and i have had no problems with soot build up in my turbo just my N75 valve
MileageDude
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2003
I do.
Basically when I keep my shoft points below 1,800 when the engine is cold I get serious lag when the engine finally warms up. In the first couple miles I try to keep the motor in 2nd and 3rd gear even if entering onto an entrance ramp needing 50-60 mph. If I keep the revs low I notice the engine takes forever to warm up, takes some fuel too and lags power once warmed.
As well, cruise control at 65-70 mph for any length of time is really bad for my Golf TDi. Don't knwo wbout any of yours out there but for mine it's a disaster. If I run 40 miles on cruise control at constant highway speeds [2,200 rpms] when I exit the highway I blow huge clouds of smoke from every stop sign, stop light and acceleration around inner city traffic till the system cleans itself free of the soot build up accumulated from the steady rpm on the highway run.
Couple evenings ago I did NYC to North Hampton, MA. Most on cruise through CT and MA due to cops... *cough* When I exited in North Hampton I killed everyone accelerating from traffic lights. *cough* *cough*
I run PowerService and Premium Diesel too. 25k on the motor and all synthetics. So... I can understand what DBW was writing. Keeping engine rpm low during cold also clogs up the turbo I'd image. I try to keep between his marks on rpm vs. engine temps. Yep.
So I do understand.
M.D.
loggin
Veteran Member
DBW "means" that...The most important time to worry is in the first 5,000 miles. During that time you should be varying the engine rpm's, not using the cruise control and keeping rpms under 3800 for extended periods.... shift at NO LESS THAN 2500 rpm cold, 3,000 rpm warm......Another important factor is to use firm application of power without letting the rpms rev to high. What this does is force the rings to apply a uniform but firm pressure agains the cylinders helping to seat the rings properly. Don't baby the engine but don't rev the heck out of it......]
Here's an old post of DBW
=========================
Drivbiwire
Veteran Member
Member # 1366
posted September 11, 2002 18:55
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The most important time to worry is in the first 5,000 miles. During that time you should be varying the engine rpm's, not using the cruise control and keeping rpms under 3800 for extended periods.
Another important factor is to use firm application of power without letting the rpms rev to high. What this does is force the rings to apply a uniform but firm pressure agains the cylinders helping to seat the rings properly. Don't baby the engine but don't rev the heck out of it.
After 5,000 miles drive normal. Shift at no less than 2500 when the engine is cold, shift at no less than 3000 when the engine is hot.
DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE!!! If the engine is cold shift at NO LESS THAN 2500 rpm, If the engine is warm SHIFT AT NO LESS THAN 3000rpm. If you do not follow that guidance you will be replacing the turbo in short order and possibly the engine due to damaged rings and cylinders. Higher rpms also aid in better lubrication to the pistons and top end of the motor.
Drive fast and treat it like the autobahn burner that it is!!
Here's an old post of DBW
=========================
Drivbiwire
Veteran Member
Member # 1366
posted September 11, 2002 18:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The most important time to worry is in the first 5,000 miles. During that time you should be varying the engine rpm's, not using the cruise control and keeping rpms under 3800 for extended periods.
Another important factor is to use firm application of power without letting the rpms rev to high. What this does is force the rings to apply a uniform but firm pressure agains the cylinders helping to seat the rings properly. Don't baby the engine but don't rev the heck out of it.
After 5,000 miles drive normal. Shift at no less than 2500 when the engine is cold, shift at no less than 3000 when the engine is hot.
DO NOT BABY THE ENGINE!!! If the engine is cold shift at NO LESS THAN 2500 rpm, If the engine is warm SHIFT AT NO LESS THAN 3000rpm. If you do not follow that guidance you will be replacing the turbo in short order and possibly the engine due to damaged rings and cylinders. Higher rpms also aid in better lubrication to the pistons and top end of the motor.
Drive fast and treat it like the autobahn burner that it is!!
Rodg Petersen
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2001
- Location
- Pacific NW
I've had pretty darned good luck getting a lot of miles out of cars and trucks. I listen to the good wrenches. DBW is a good wrench. Think I'll follow his advice. The guys at the Cummins shop said pretty much the same thing about Moby truck...except after it's warm, drive it like you stole it.
Rodg
Rodg
Andrei Rinea
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Location
- Europe, Romania, Bucharest
- TDI
- VW Tiguan 4Motion 2.0 TDI 170HP (engine CBBB)
drivbiwire... please clear some things up:
B4 1Z 87kmiles (no VNT - just wastegate)
1) city driving... where do I shift up (RPM) then what RPM should I *MAINTAIN* ? When cold I shift up at 1900 and then when warm up I shift up at 2200.
2) When I drive OUTSIDE cities.. I shift up at 2500 RPM and maintain 1900 rpm?
When in city I kinda keep 2000 RPM.
3) You mean I should MAINTAIN over 3000 RPM outside cities??! it would kill mileage instantly!!! not to mention other things.
People!?
B4 1Z 87kmiles (no VNT - just wastegate)
1) city driving... where do I shift up (RPM) then what RPM should I *MAINTAIN* ? When cold I shift up at 1900 and then when warm up I shift up at 2200.
2) When I drive OUTSIDE cities.. I shift up at 2500 RPM and maintain 1900 rpm?
When in city I kinda keep 2000 RPM.
3) You mean I should MAINTAIN over 3000 RPM outside cities??! it would kill mileage instantly!!! not to mention other things.
People!?
loggin
Veteran Member
Andrei Rinea
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Location
- Europe, Romania, Bucharest
- TDI
- VW Tiguan 4Motion 2.0 TDI 170HP (engine CBBB)
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Raspuns la:</font><hr />
<font color="blue"> the shifts "points" are specific to when cold and when warm......so, @ 2500 "when cold" -shift- and @ 3000 "when warm"shift . I don't have to rev it hard to get to 3000. Shifting @ 3000 does not imply lots of go pedal, one can "take it easy", and shift at 3000 as well. </font> my .02
[/QUOTE]
WHAT ABOUT THE RPM THAT YOU *MAINTAIN* ??!
By maintain I mean which you keep almost constant let's say during highway drives (constant = +/- 100 RPM)
[/QUOTE]
WHAT ABOUT THE RPM THAT YOU *MAINTAIN* ??!
By maintain I mean which you keep almost constant let's say during highway drives (constant = +/- 100 RPM)
loggin
Veteran Member
maintain 2000 ish
jackbombay
Top Post Dawg
So why specifically is the cruise controll bad during the first 5000 miles?
-Jack
-Jack
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Under Steady state driving on the highway with a VNTWHAT ABOUT THE RPM THAT YOU *MAINTAIN* ??!<font color="blue"> the shifts "points" are specific to when cold and when warm......so, @ 2500 "when cold" -shift- and @ 3000 "when warm"shift . I don't have to rev it hard to get to 3000. Shifting @ 3000 does not imply lots of go pedal, one can "take it easy", and shift at 3000 as well. </font> my .02
By maintain I mean which you keep almost constant let's say during highway drives (constant = +/- 100 RPM)
Maintain the highest gear you can. Higher gears when on the highway keep the engine "Loaded" or on boost since the engine has to create a higher BMEP to sustatin speed. Higher engine pressures and lower rpms will prevent "Glazing" that can occur from sustained high rpm driving.
The suggestions have to do with how you shift a TDI. On the highway with the exception of 4th and 5th the Turbo is making very little boost at legal speeds. Steady speeds, level terrain (Indiana, Illinois, Michigan) don't really cause much of a load change due to hills, this is why I suggest making speed changes to load up the engine during break in. If you live in Denver Your engine is going to do very well here.
This Break in procedure is what just about everyone does whether they think about it or not. Try and maintain your speed within 3 mph on the highway using just your foot, you would have a hard time doing it for very long. This driver induced variation is what causes the turbo to occassionaly spool up and spool down, loading and unloading the engine at a steady speed. If you had a boost gauge you would see what I mean. The cruise on the other hand CAN maintain within 1 mph due to its constant watch on speed and load. This reduces the cyclical boost fluctuations that occur from speed deviations meaning a more steady engine load and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY.
Next time your driving try and listen to the turbo and see if you can hear it when its making boost. That rushing sound tells you that the VNT is cycling and the engine is loading. When you climb a hill listen for that sound or when you pass a car. Getting the engine on boost is very easy to do and extrememly beneficial to breaking the engine in.
DB
Rob Mayercik
Veteran Member
Ok, time to weigh in here.
There's a lot of debate going on in this thread about shift points. When to shift when the engine is cold, when to shift once it's warmed up, etc.
This is nice info, but for those of us with the automatic, it's pretty much useless.
Myself, I try to go easy when the engine's cold, but when you gotta climb somewhat steep hills within a minute or two of cold startup, I can only go so easy. I routinely see 2600-2700 rpm on a cold engine. It's either that or watch fast-moving snails outclimb me in the mornings.
That aside, I followed the manual's instructions, and I don't seem to be using a drop of oil either (and I'm going in for the 30K service on Monday). YRMV, I suppose.
Rob
There's a lot of debate going on in this thread about shift points. When to shift when the engine is cold, when to shift once it's warmed up, etc.
This is nice info, but for those of us with the automatic, it's pretty much useless.
Myself, I try to go easy when the engine's cold, but when you gotta climb somewhat steep hills within a minute or two of cold startup, I can only go so easy. I routinely see 2600-2700 rpm on a cold engine. It's either that or watch fast-moving snails outclimb me in the mornings.
That aside, I followed the manual's instructions, and I don't seem to be using a drop of oil either (and I'm going in for the 30K service on Monday). YRMV, I suppose.
Rob
Andrei Rinea
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Location
- Europe, Romania, Bucharest
- TDI
- VW Tiguan 4Motion 2.0 TDI 170HP (engine CBBB)
thanks dbw! It is now clear!
jackbombay
Top Post Dawg
From your last poist DBW it seems like the cruise is bad for a new engine because of low or no sustained boost, would using the cruise in hilly terrain (theoretically) not be bad then because of significantly varied throttle inputs? Is the steady RPM not the bad thing about the cruise, but instead the lack of boost?
-Jack
loggin
Veteran Member
<font color="purple"> Thanks DBW! </font>
Cary G
Well-known member
It seems like i have been too easy on my TDI. My mileage is now at 65,000 KM and i have been WETT chipped since 6000 KM. I occasionally rev the engine out to over 4000 RPM's a few times a week but in general i baby the engine in the 2000-2500 RPM range. So far no measureable oil loss is happening between oil changes.
For the last week, i have been driving the car the way DBW suggests. It took a lot of effort as his way is a lot different than the way i am used to driving. At the same time the car feels livelier, since i have been doing it, maybe the VNT vanes are being freed up.
After reading this thread, DBW makes a lot of sense. The question now, should i switch my driving style to fit DBW's break-in schedule even though my car is already broken in and is chipped? Will the added boost of the WETT chip cause premature wear on the turbo, as the car will be on boost a lot more often?
For the last week, i have been driving the car the way DBW suggests. It took a lot of effort as his way is a lot different than the way i am used to driving. At the same time the car feels livelier, since i have been doing it, maybe the VNT vanes are being freed up.
After reading this thread, DBW makes a lot of sense. The question now, should i switch my driving style to fit DBW's break-in schedule even though my car is already broken in and is chipped? Will the added boost of the WETT chip cause premature wear on the turbo, as the car will be on boost a lot more often?
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Following the break-in after 10,000 miles wont change anything. Modifying how you shift will directly impact the life of the turbo and the cylinders.
Most people that baby the engine by shifting at 2,000 rpm probably would not even notice a jammed VNT since they never get on the power. This has led in at least one case that I am very familar with, an engine whose compression was so low that the engine would have needed to be replaced due to jammed rings from the lack of boost when driving. Once we (Bkmetz, Garrett P and myself) freed up the VNT the owner by simply following the shifting recomendations I listed was able to get the compression to recover to 470 PSI in about 2 weeks. The compression in this case had dropped to 330 psi far below spec causing serious missing and hard starting issues.
A Turbo charged engine does not suffer ill effects from higher boost pressure like a "Non Turbo Engine WITH a turbo" installed would like the case may be with a 2.0 gasser with an aftermarket turbo upgrade. The rings are designed in such a way that the combustion gasses get behind the comression ring causing the ring to expand outward and down forcing the ring to seal the gasses and prevent them from getting between the cylinder and ring/piston. The shape of the interior diameter varies based on the combustion gas pressures created by the burning of fuel and air. If the ring is designed for a turbo charged or Super charged engine they reduce the surface area thus requiring higher cylinder pressures to create the required pressure on the ring to seal in the gasses. Running an engine that is designed for a turbo charger at low boost pressures or low loads means that gasses are not being sufficiently sealed from passing around the ring. When this occurs the carbon eventually builds around the ring jamming it in the groove and preventing it from expanding and contracting with the gas pressure fluctuations from each combustion event in the cylinder. This is the principle behind the shift recomendations that I tell everyone to follow.
In Practice, I have found that the 2,500 rpm range when cold allows the Glow Plugs to remain on helping to assist the engine reach operating temperature WITHOUT revving the engine too high with the cold oil. Once your engine is warm shifting at no less that 3,000 is sufficient to get the engine on boost and cycle the VNT guide vanes throughout their full range. Keep in mind that this engine if it was allowed by the ECU could safely reve to around 7,000 rpm with not ill effects. The TDI is not a long stroke diesel like in a 3,000 rpm redline CAT, instead the TDI uses a near identical stroke as a gasser and increases the compression by nearly eliminating the combustion chamber when compared to a gasoline engine. With a good synthetic like Delvac 1 5w40 rpms of 2,500 are simply a NON issue when the engine is cold in temps of -30F. In fact not getting the engine to operating temp quickly does more harm than good by keeping rpms excessively low (less than 2,000 rpm shifts not to mention the soot build up on the VNT).
As far as the Automatic transmission TDI's the Transmission ECU is already programmed with a "Warm Up" program to facilitate a faster warm up with increase rpm shift points, in other words its all taken care of so just drive it and forget about it. I doubt that you would ever see a jammed VNT on any automatic transmission provided that its not allowed to idle excessively.
DB
Most people that baby the engine by shifting at 2,000 rpm probably would not even notice a jammed VNT since they never get on the power. This has led in at least one case that I am very familar with, an engine whose compression was so low that the engine would have needed to be replaced due to jammed rings from the lack of boost when driving. Once we (Bkmetz, Garrett P and myself) freed up the VNT the owner by simply following the shifting recomendations I listed was able to get the compression to recover to 470 PSI in about 2 weeks. The compression in this case had dropped to 330 psi far below spec causing serious missing and hard starting issues.
A Turbo charged engine does not suffer ill effects from higher boost pressure like a "Non Turbo Engine WITH a turbo" installed would like the case may be with a 2.0 gasser with an aftermarket turbo upgrade. The rings are designed in such a way that the combustion gasses get behind the comression ring causing the ring to expand outward and down forcing the ring to seal the gasses and prevent them from getting between the cylinder and ring/piston. The shape of the interior diameter varies based on the combustion gas pressures created by the burning of fuel and air. If the ring is designed for a turbo charged or Super charged engine they reduce the surface area thus requiring higher cylinder pressures to create the required pressure on the ring to seal in the gasses. Running an engine that is designed for a turbo charger at low boost pressures or low loads means that gasses are not being sufficiently sealed from passing around the ring. When this occurs the carbon eventually builds around the ring jamming it in the groove and preventing it from expanding and contracting with the gas pressure fluctuations from each combustion event in the cylinder. This is the principle behind the shift recomendations that I tell everyone to follow.
In Practice, I have found that the 2,500 rpm range when cold allows the Glow Plugs to remain on helping to assist the engine reach operating temperature WITHOUT revving the engine too high with the cold oil. Once your engine is warm shifting at no less that 3,000 is sufficient to get the engine on boost and cycle the VNT guide vanes throughout their full range. Keep in mind that this engine if it was allowed by the ECU could safely reve to around 7,000 rpm with not ill effects. The TDI is not a long stroke diesel like in a 3,000 rpm redline CAT, instead the TDI uses a near identical stroke as a gasser and increases the compression by nearly eliminating the combustion chamber when compared to a gasoline engine. With a good synthetic like Delvac 1 5w40 rpms of 2,500 are simply a NON issue when the engine is cold in temps of -30F. In fact not getting the engine to operating temp quickly does more harm than good by keeping rpms excessively low (less than 2,000 rpm shifts not to mention the soot build up on the VNT).
As far as the Automatic transmission TDI's the Transmission ECU is already programmed with a "Warm Up" program to facilitate a faster warm up with increase rpm shift points, in other words its all taken care of so just drive it and forget about it. I doubt that you would ever see a jammed VNT on any automatic transmission provided that its not allowed to idle excessively.
DB
loggin
Veteran Member
<font color="red"> DBW...thank you for all this good info. I appreciate this a lot!!! </font>
<font color="green">I have "used" the advice re: "when cold @ 2500 and "when warm" @ 3000 since I asked a while ago. I think the engine is happy because it is not bogged down with "short quick shifts" @ 2000 ish or less with the TURBO gunking up with junk.... </font>
Cary G
Well-known member
DBW,
Thanks for the explanation, very informative and makes sense. I will be following your shifting practices from now on.
Much appreciated, Cary
Thanks for the explanation, very informative and makes sense. I will be following your shifting practices from now on.
Much appreciated, Cary
TDiConvert
Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2003
- Location
- San Diego CA
Do you think you could change the rpm limitation with vag-com?
TDiConvert
TDiConvert
Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2003
- Location
- San Diego CA
I think I just answered my own question with this excerpt from the Ross-Tech VAG-COM site:
Q: Can I use VAG-COM to "Flash" the chip in my ECU?
A: No, we have investigated flashing, but found that there are several different methods of encryption for various VW/Audi vehicles, as well as delicate licensing issues to overcome. Therefore, we do not intend to pursue flashing any further at this time. <font color="red">You cannot alter</font> boost, timing, fueling, <font color="red">rev limiter</font>, or speed limiter <font color="red">with VAG-COM</font>.
...but is the last statement entirely true? I thought I have read in TDI Club that you could modify some of these functions.
TDiConvert
Q: Can I use VAG-COM to "Flash" the chip in my ECU?
A: No, we have investigated flashing, but found that there are several different methods of encryption for various VW/Audi vehicles, as well as delicate licensing issues to overcome. Therefore, we do not intend to pursue flashing any further at this time. <font color="red">You cannot alter</font> boost, timing, fueling, <font color="red">rev limiter</font>, or speed limiter <font color="red">with VAG-COM</font>.
...but is the last statement entirely true? I thought I have read in TDI Club that you could modify some of these functions.
TDiConvert