hymato
Veteran Member
I just had my BRM rebuilt top to bottom and was wondering opinions of running high zinc oil for a few thousand miles.
Break in oil on BRM rebuild?
- Thread starter hymato
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MichaelB
Veteran Member
What oil is in the engine right now? Rotella T6 5W-40 is a high zinc oil so are you wanting to add more ZDDP?
hymato
Veteran Member
the engine has not been fired yet, just rebuilt going in car tomorrow
turbobrick240
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I'd change out the first oil out way before a few thousand miles myself.
MichaelB
Veteran Member
Old school nonscence and the OP was asking about extra ZDDP for the break in. Not when to change the oil.
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turbobrick240
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No, it's unscented good sense!
. This is a rebuilt engine. Do you think VW runs their initial fill for several thousand miles or equivalent at the factory?MichaelB
Veteran Member
But from what I understand VW factory fills the engine with oil runs it for a very short time, not a couple thousand miles. Drains it, then fills it with the oil you recieve when you buy the car that you leave in for 10K. This still doesn't answer the original question about zinc.
Riflesmith
Veteran Member
I used Joe Gibbs BR break-in oil. It is a very high ZDDP oil, but lacks detergent, or any other additives. It is designed to break in cams and seat rings quickly. Two 500 mile runs of this oil is what I would do. The oil should not be used in longer intervals since it has no detergents or additives to suspend soot.
This was what I did on my 2003 Wagon engine listed in my signature. Results have been excellent.
This was what I did on my 2003 Wagon engine listed in my signature. Results have been excellent.
turbobrick240
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That sounds like a good procedure. I would do something similar.
MichaelB
Veteran Member
Ding, Ding, Ding!
I think we have a winning answer for the OP. Hope he is still following this thread.
turbobrick240
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Specialty break-in oils high in zddp are also available from Brad Penn, royal purple, Lucas, Motul, and others.
Drivbiwire
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Don't play Chemist you may throw off the ideal balance of additives in the engines oil which are already beyond sufficient!
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, first oil change 10,000 miles!
Leave that oil in there, you don't want multiple short term detergency cycles that will prevent the accumulation of EP/HP additives on the critical parts namely your camshaft!
I always run 10K oil changes for the first 3 intervals, Don't waste your time replacing filters because there is nothing big enough to be captured...
After 30,000 miles resume a 15-20K oil change if its stock, 10K if you are gonna be doing performance mods.
Texas_sky
Veteran Member
Has anyone tried the Rotella T5 10w30 semi synthetic or Rotella T1 SAE Straight 30W (known to be high in Zinc). I hear those work if you use some Redline 81403 additive.
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Drivbiwire
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XXw30 is too thin for Flat tappet PD engines!
Just use the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 and run it 15,000 miles.
Texas_sky
Veteran Member
Has anyone confirmed what weight/brand of oil vw uses in the factory to break the PD/BRM engines in?
hymato
Veteran Member
Which oil to run now? between Liqui Moly Top Tech 4100 and Mobil 1 5w40 truck
engine has been run on 4100 since it was rebuilt
engine has been run on 4100 since it was rebuilt
James & Son
Veteran Member
Are you saying you broke in with Top Tech. Top tech has the better base oils and at a 169 VI it should not shear much and hold the 14 cst. and noak is very good. I would say it is a no brainer but then the thicker TDT seems to do very good on highway cars.
hymato
Veteran Member
Yes broken in with Top Tech. And my car is 200 Miles a day of mainly highway
James & Son
Veteran Member
I have Gofasters car here on the original cam shaft at 450,000 kilometers and it was mostly with TDT. It was driven mainly highway. If you put a bypass filter in then you could really take advantage of TDT and run it out to 15000 miles. Otherwise I think it safer to stick to 10,000 but you could PM Drivebiwire.
Make sure you nail him down about whether or not to use a by pass filter. From what he has said his customers use TDT and he has sealed the drain plug and only drains from the top.
With your highway driving you could have a very economical method and drain interval if you get his advice.
Make sure you nail him down about whether or not to use a by pass filter. From what he has said his customers use TDT and he has sealed the drain plug and only drains from the top.
With your highway driving you could have a very economical method and drain interval if you get his advice.
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Drivbiwire
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Just had one of my regular customers come in, 24,000 on the Mobil 1 5w40 Turbo Diesel Truck... Oil was in EXCELLENT condition! Dispersants were still pulling the oil away from the filter housing leaving no trace of any contamination on the aluminum.
This is a 2005 BEW, Original camshaft, 360,000 miles... Car has been serviced by us since new using the M1 TDT and averaging 15,000-25,000 mile oil changes NO-BYPASS filter installed.
This is a 2005 BEW, Original camshaft, 360,000 miles... Car has been serviced by us since new using the M1 TDT and averaging 15,000-25,000 mile oil changes NO-BYPASS filter installed.
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Denali376
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15w 40 ?
Riflesmith
Veteran Member
15W-50. I disconnected the fuel-cut solenoid during cranking prior to first start until I had full oil pressure and oil coming from disconnected turbo oil drain. Then I buttoned everything up and started the engine.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
Talking oil can always get the pot stirring...
First thing, Rotella T-6 is NOT a high ZDDP oil and EPA back in 2007 wrote new rules about the amount of ZDDP allowed in any oil, as EPA claims ZDDP has a negative effect on catalytic converters. So, the industry, including Rotella were required to reformulate at that time to compensate for the lack of ZDDP.
As for adding ZDDP, our shop has never been a proponent of adding anything to the oil to 'make it right', as you can find oil off the shelf, that is formulated correctly.
Next... This has to do with the Mobil 1, which we will not use in any PD motor, particularly the BRM engine. Several years ago, there were several BRM engines, run exclusively on Mobil 1 TDT, of which our shop rebuilt two engines that damaged the #4 piston and cylinder. This is the only oil we have seen do this and it happened under high ambient temperature situations. Of the 6 engines we heard of this happening, the common denominator was full highway driven cars, with overkill oil changes, averaging 6,000 mile intervals and Mobil 1 5-40 TDT. The other denominator was it was a hot summer in Oklahoma and Texas. I think the TDT is slightly underweight from 5-40. I'd take my chances with ANY other of our recommended oils. For example, we never had that happen with the thousands of engines we know that are using Schaeffer's... or for that matter any of the 505.01 certified oils. I realize neither Mobil 1 or Schaeffer's have the 505.01 certification, but in the case of Shaeffer's, we have had so much field testing as to make judgement that certificate be damned. It's some of the best oil we ever used. 9000 series 5-40.
Now, about the Joe Gibbs, which is another of the oils we have long recommended for engine break-in. Now, again, I know there are those who think doing a break-in is a waste of money, time and oil. We think it's the basis of an engine's long life.
However, the oil we have been told by Joe Gibbs tech support to use for our diesel break-in is not 15-40. It is 20-50 weight. Joe Gibbs BR. We have been given enough argument telling us 'that's not the right oil.', but we must disagree. It works great.
The comment from Riflesmith is that the break-in oil 'lacks detergent', and the point is, you can't use a super-slippery synthetic oil, with detergents, to break in an engine. It's non-detergent, non-synthetic oil we use. The purpose is similar to trying to get a lotion on your hands with soapy water. That will not work.
It is not right to say Joe Gibbs lacks 'any other additives'. The fact is, the oil is specifically designed for the race track and is not subject to the same restrictions by EPA to reduce any of the ZDDP, for example, which is 2100 ppm; just about the highest amount in any oil. It also has LEAD in it... omg! The point is, the oil is designed to do the best job, in spite of EPA restrictions. I do not recall all of the additives, but the point is to get these additives into the molecules of the engine parts. Non-detergent is that part of the solution.
As I have said for years, longevity for cams is partially an ambient temp problem. Since we sell as much or more in the 'hot' states, we have to recommend oil and technique that is universally effective.
First thing, Rotella T-6 is NOT a high ZDDP oil and EPA back in 2007 wrote new rules about the amount of ZDDP allowed in any oil, as EPA claims ZDDP has a negative effect on catalytic converters. So, the industry, including Rotella were required to reformulate at that time to compensate for the lack of ZDDP.
As for adding ZDDP, our shop has never been a proponent of adding anything to the oil to 'make it right', as you can find oil off the shelf, that is formulated correctly.
Next... This has to do with the Mobil 1, which we will not use in any PD motor, particularly the BRM engine. Several years ago, there were several BRM engines, run exclusively on Mobil 1 TDT, of which our shop rebuilt two engines that damaged the #4 piston and cylinder. This is the only oil we have seen do this and it happened under high ambient temperature situations. Of the 6 engines we heard of this happening, the common denominator was full highway driven cars, with overkill oil changes, averaging 6,000 mile intervals and Mobil 1 5-40 TDT. The other denominator was it was a hot summer in Oklahoma and Texas. I think the TDT is slightly underweight from 5-40. I'd take my chances with ANY other of our recommended oils. For example, we never had that happen with the thousands of engines we know that are using Schaeffer's... or for that matter any of the 505.01 certified oils. I realize neither Mobil 1 or Schaeffer's have the 505.01 certification, but in the case of Shaeffer's, we have had so much field testing as to make judgement that certificate be damned. It's some of the best oil we ever used. 9000 series 5-40.
Now, about the Joe Gibbs, which is another of the oils we have long recommended for engine break-in. Now, again, I know there are those who think doing a break-in is a waste of money, time and oil. We think it's the basis of an engine's long life.
However, the oil we have been told by Joe Gibbs tech support to use for our diesel break-in is not 15-40. It is 20-50 weight. Joe Gibbs BR. We have been given enough argument telling us 'that's not the right oil.', but we must disagree. It works great.
The comment from Riflesmith is that the break-in oil 'lacks detergent', and the point is, you can't use a super-slippery synthetic oil, with detergents, to break in an engine. It's non-detergent, non-synthetic oil we use. The purpose is similar to trying to get a lotion on your hands with soapy water. That will not work.
It is not right to say Joe Gibbs lacks 'any other additives'. The fact is, the oil is specifically designed for the race track and is not subject to the same restrictions by EPA to reduce any of the ZDDP, for example, which is 2100 ppm; just about the highest amount in any oil. It also has LEAD in it... omg! The point is, the oil is designed to do the best job, in spite of EPA restrictions. I do not recall all of the additives, but the point is to get these additives into the molecules of the engine parts. Non-detergent is that part of the solution.
As I have said for years, longevity for cams is partially an ambient temp problem. Since we sell as much or more in the 'hot' states, we have to recommend oil and technique that is universally effective.