Brakes super squishy

[TwistedSmoke]

i did a brake fluid flush yesterday the fluid was looking old and dirty. So got a all new fluid and use my motive power bleeder to flush the system. I started from the passenger rear to worked my way around the car , farthest wheel to closest wheel to the brake pump. Got all the fluid nice and clear now but when i turned on the car and went to test the brakes they are super soft. I push gently and i bottom out the pedal. Is it possible i missed something ?? or broke something cause i dont see any fluid under the car?

 

[Mongler98]

Bleed them one more time. This time move the pedal when you do. Clearly you introduced and air bubble or 2. No big deal.

 

[Mongler98]

I dont like pressure blenders or suckers.
I prefer a $3 pvc check valve on some 1/8 clear line from lowes and a Gatorade bottle. Pumping them.manually.

Also if you have ABS. You will need to have vcds cycle the pump

 

[nicklockard]

I second this. Don't sweat it. Keep working it until all the air bubbles bleed out and it'll be restored.

 

[TwistedSmoke]

ok will re bleed in the morning. what is the vcds section to have the abs cycle?

 

[JETaah]

ok will re bleed in the morning. what is the vcds section to have the abs cycle?

03-ABS Brakes: -- KWP-1281 (earlier cars) or KWP-2000 (2001+ models)
'output tests' or 'basic settings' depending on the car
it will prompt you through the process

 

[TwistedSmoke]

ok thank you

 

[Nuje]

On the brakes of the later (2002-->) Mk4, the manual puts the order of bleeding as "nearest to furthest". Start with clutch (if so equipped), then LF, RF, LR, RR.
(I will mention that there's the possibility - happened on two of my cars - that bleeding the clutch might show that your master cylinder is toast. On those two cars, I bled off fluid from the clutch bleeder, but then couldn't get the MC to draw in any more fluid and ended up having to swap it out. Changes a 30min job into a frustrating multi-hour one, as the clutch line goes where hands have trouble reaching up against the firewall.)

For the Mk7, there's always more air (and firmer pedal) that can be found by doing the old-fashioned two-person (one on the brake pedal, another on the bleed screw). Pump then stomp the pedal, open/close the bleed screw, let the pedal up. Repeat 4-5x per wheel.

 

[TwistedSmoke]

well i ran the abs cycle with the vcds and then bled all the brakes and got a couple large air bubbles out and it seems to be close to the firmness i had before. thank you for the info peoples

 

[Mongler98]

great.
may i suggest that you next time keep an eye on the reservoir. I hate those pressure bleeders when used the way they are designed. I don't like how you fill the bleeder . I love to use it for ONLY pressure though and top off the RES manually.
always put a block of wood under the pedal too, it restricts the pedals movement and keeps it from going to an area that it never goes and keeps bad things from happening. mainly crud chewing up a rings.

if you change your fluid every 2 years or more often from the beginning then its not a big deal but on older cars that get neglected... big deal

 

[TwistedSmoke]

change my fluids usually every 2 years which is about 80,000 miles

 

[Jolee]

On the brakes of the later (2002-->) Mk4, the manual puts the order of bleeding as "nearest to furthest". Start with clutch (if so equipped), then LF, RF, LR, RR.
(I will mention that there's the possibility - happened on two of my cars - that bleeding the clutch might show that your master cylinder is toast. On those two cars, I bled off fluid from the clutch bleeder, but then couldn't get the MC to draw in any more fluid and ended up having to swap it out. Changes a 30min job into a frustrating multi-hour one, as the clutch line goes where hands have trouble reaching up against the firewall.)

For the Mk7, there's always more air (and firmer pedal) that can be found by doing the old-fashioned two-person (one on the brake pedal, another on the bleed screw). Pump then stomp the pedal, open/close the bleed screw, let the pedal up. Repeat 4-5x per wheel.

change my fluids usually every 2 years which is about 80,000 miles

I have a 2001 Golf, manual trans. What is the bleed order?

 

[Mongler98]

I have a 2001 Golf, manual trans. What is the bleed order?

Not much to it. Start furthest away from master and end at the closest. Pressure bleed or manual or vac, your cause. Do it simple with 1 person method is always the cheapest and easiest and fastest with the least cleanup.

Use proper decent dot 4 fluids.
I mean there is not much difference between this and any other car basically.
DO NOT GO DRY on the master or you WILL be required to use VCDS to cycle the ABS pump. You do not technically need to cycle the pump to do a normal bleed.

also not a good idea to just butt into a thread like this. I understand you may not be able to google or know how to search these fourms or youtube but you could at least try!

 

[BlueMoon11]

I dont like pressure blenders or suckers.
I prefer a $3 pvc check valve on some 1/8 clear line from lowes and a Gatorade bottle. Pumping them.manually.

Also if you have ABS. You will need to have vcds cycle the pump

can you give some more details on this? I’m currently stuck in the middle of Virginia on a long weekend coming from Montreal. We had a seized rear right caliper, changed it at a parts store.. then the brakes pedal was hitting the floor. Trying to figure out how to bleed them easily now.

 

[snakeye]

can you give some more details on this? I’m currently stuck in the middle of Virginia on a long weekend coming from Montreal. We had a seized rear right caliper, changed it at a parts store.. then the brakes pedal was hitting the floor. Trying to figure out how to bleed them easily now.

Did your reservoir run dry?

 

[davran]

Check the vacuum pump. Turns out the tube going out the hack of the pump -- going to the brake booster -- had broken loose, and wasn't sealing.
I bought the bew/brm gasket, and am going to jb-weld the tube to the housing.

 

[BlueMoon11]

Did your reservoir run dry?

Tbh I’m not sure, the reservoir was grimy and was hard to see the fill line. Quite a lot came out when we changed the caliper tho.

 

[Mongler98]

can you give some more details on this? I’m currently stuck in the middle of Virginia on a long weekend coming from Montreal. We had a seized rear right caliper, changed it at a parts store.. then the brakes pedal was hitting the floor. Trying to figure out how to bleed them easily now.

Literally some 1/8 inch tubing and a check valve from pets smart. It's a tiny little one way valve for air supply for aquariums. $2
Put 1 foot of line to the bleed screw. Then check valve. Then the other 2 feet back down into a bottle. Needs to be a loop. That way as some fluid comes back in it's not all of it. The check valves dont work 100% but still do the job.
Next time get a foam earplug. Roll it up and put it into the banjo it will inflate and seal the banjo so very little fluid is lost.

 

[snakeye]

The check valve isn't really necessary. You can just close the bleeder screw before releasing the brake pedal after each pump, and even that's just precautionary and you can get away with just pumping the brake pedal to purge the air out.

BlueMoon11 it's a simple process, there are tons of videos online that show how to do this, but if you ran your reservoir dry you may have a bigger problem cause then the abs pump will need to be bled as well, and that requires vcds.

 

[Genesis]

Yep -- don't let the reservoir get down below about half full and NEVER touch the brake or clutch pedals while the fluid level is low. If you do you're hosed as you'll drive air into the pipes and then you have to bleed the ABS system. If you have to replace a caliper provided you do not touch the pedal while the caliper is off bleeding the new one is easy. If you DO draw air into the pipe then depending on how far it goes the hassle factor goes up a fair bit.

I always do it with a pressure bleeder, just me, and have never screwed it up -- but I do one wheel at a time, go back and put more fluid in the master, etc. My sequence is like this:

1. Remove screen from the master (under the cap) with a pair of long-nose pliers. Suck out all the fluid with a large syringe and put into the "junk" bottle. Replace screen.

2. Replace fluid to top of master, apply bleeder and put some pressure in it. DO NOT put fluid in the bleeder -- just use it as an air pressure source.

3. Go to the bleeder (start rear pax), stick tube on top, insert into waste bottle, crack it and watch the clear tube for the color change. When it happens, close bleeder, stop.

4. Go back and do #2, then continue with #3 until done. Clutch is last.

When finished top up the reservoir; that's it. I do this with all my vehicles every 2 years and have never had to change a master, ABS pump or caliper in any of them and have never had it screw up where I got air in the system either. There are two vehicles in my driveway right now that are 20 and 19 years old, respectively. The fluid is cheap and the job takes an hour a vehicle with most of it being jacking up the corner, removing the wheel and then putting it back on for each corner -- if you have a lift its considerably faster since all four wheels come off the ground at once. IMHO this is one of the cheapest ways going to keep from having to replace a master, caliper or (in terms of money) the ABS pump. For the cost in time of what amounts to an oil change once every two years and a $10 bottle of brake fluid IMHO this one's a no-brainer.

 

[mittzlepick]

I let it bleed when changing a caliper to drain the cooties. Topping off before and after then bleed, testing pedal feel as is work around. Plugging the fluid a good idea if a dry master cylinder is a risk.

 

[Mongler98]

The check valve isn't really necessary. You can just close the bleeder screw before releasing the brake pedal after each pump, and even that's just precautionary and you can get away with just pumping the brake pedal to purge the air out.

BlueMoon11 it's a simple process, there are tons of videos online that show how to do this, but if you ran your reservoir dry you may have a bigger problem cause then the abs pump will need to be bled as well, and that requires vcds.

That's not the point. It's a 2 person job with out the Chechen valve.

 

[JETaah]

That's not the point. It's a 2 person job with out the Chechen valve.

Power Bleeder Instructions

Directions for using the POWER BLEEDERTM: WARNING: Hydraulic fluid is hazardous. Read and follow fluid manufacturer's warnings. Hydraulic fluid is corrosive and may damage automobile paint or other surfaces. If fluid spills, flush with water immediately. Always wear safety goggles when working...

www.motiveproducts.com

For those of you that have trouble with using a Motive power bleeder ^^^

It's always been a one-person job for me. No issues...No valves from Chechnya necessary.

 

[ToxicDoc]

^Power bleeder is good providing you don't let the reservoir empty out. Better to spend on a little extra brake fluid. Then the bleeding can be controlled at the bleeder.

 

[JETaah]

^Power bleeder is good providing you don't let the reservoir empty out. Better to spend on a little extra brake fluid. Then the bleeding can be controlled at the bleeder.

If done correctly the power bleeder will run out of fluid before the reservoir will and the bleeder will let you know it’s sucking air by the noise it makes. That is enough warning for those that are keeping tabs on things.
Of course, if you are bleeding in the presence of death metal music you may not hear the the slurping

 

[Mongler98]

Btw. Never. EVER. pump the brake to bleed them without it only being a one way. If you do not have a check valve or somone closing the bleeder on the up stroke of the pedal...... small bits of rust and grime and grit can and usually do get sucked back in from the dirty screw its self. They are heavy and settle down quick and have a good chance of never coming back out. This has the potential to lock up the piston.

 

[ToxicDoc]

If done correctly the power bleeder will run out of fluid before the reservoir will and the bleeder will let you know it’s sucking air by the noise it makes. That is enough warning for those that are keeping tabs on things.
Of course, if you are bleeding in the presence of death metal music you may not hear the the slurping

You can tell how much you're using based on how much you get out if you look at the container you're emptying into

 

[03TDICommuter]

Btw. Never. EVER. pump the brake to bleed them without it only being a one way. If you do not have a check valve or somone closing the bleeder on the up stroke of the pedal...... small bits of rust and grime and grit can and usually do get sucked back in from the dirty screw its self. They are heavy and settle down quick and have a good chance of never coming back out. This has the potential to lock up the piston.

I've found the stock bleeders will suck air around the threads. How does your check valve not do that?

My evidence is that I bleed my brakes with a vacuum pump and a catch jar that I made. I'll pull as much of the old fluid from the MC with a turkey baster, refill with fresh fluid, then go to each wheel (furthest first) and pull a vacuum on the bleed nipple when cracked open until fresh fluid comes out. After each wheel I top up the MC before going to the next wheel. When I do this I pull A LOT of air from each nipple due to the threads of the nipple not making a tight seal. That's normal as they don't seal against the threads but against the seat when closed.

So again, how do your bleeder check valves work? Do you bottom them out when installing?

 

[JETaah]

I've found the stock bleeders will suck air around the threads. How does your check valve not do that?

My evidence is that I bleed my brakes with a vacuum pump and a catch jar that I made. I'll pull as much of the old fluid from the MC with a turkey baster, refill with fresh fluid, then go to each wheel (furthest first) and pull a vacuum on the bleed nipple when cracked open until fresh fluid comes out. After each wheel I top up the MC before going to the next wheel. When I do this I pull A LOT of air from each nipple due to the threads of the nipple not making a tight seal. That's normal as they don't seal against the threads but against the seat when closed.

So again, how do your bleeder check valves work? Do you bottom them out when installing?

I find that the threads on the bleeder will leak even when using the pressure bleeder. It can fool you into thinking that there is endless amounts of air in the line. It's not a bad idea to deal with that for more than one reason. Coat the threads with some VW brake grease or even a wrap of teflon pipe joint tape. Doing that will aid in keeping the bleed screws from getting stuck due to corrosion down the line, too. That can render a caliper useless. Applying heat sometimes helps but I found that if I can manage to budge the screw, the aluminum caliper threads will come out with it ruining it. It happens more often to the rear calipers, I assume, because of the mismatch of materials,...steel screw and aluminum caliper.

Keeping a rubber cap on the bleed screws will also help to prevent bleeders from seizing. The bleeders all face upward which leaves a little column where salt water or just water can get caught.
Blow the bleeder out with compressed air to dry it and cover it with the supplied cap. Should open right up in two years.

 

[Mongler98]

I've found the stock bleeders will suck air around the threads. How does your check valve not do that?

Simple. Do a better job.
Next time and every time.... either replace the screw $2.00 for a set. AMD or grease the threads with silicone based high heat grease. You should put a dab into the end of the screw with the cover nipple.
All blenders that use vacuum suction have the same issue. This is the fix you should be doing anyways.