Blew the turbo, revert to VNT 15 or a new VNT 17

[eddieleephd]

This morning I blew my turbo getting on the interstate. Engine started to run away and oil spilled out when I disconnected the lower boost hose.

I have not been able to achieve the desired fuel economy since I installed the 17 and have been considering reverting to the 15 and putting a smaller tune on.
This would likely require me to revert my nozzles from DLC1019's to the 520's I have in my parts inventory.
If I revert to the 15 I will also have to order an new boost hose as the present one is an OEM one for the 17.

So I am curious what others thoughts are on the situation. Pro's and Con's to either choice?

I got on the interstate and was pushing it to heat up and burn out any build up in the veins when there was poof and lots of smoke.
I was having some intermittent over-boost conditions and thought a little exhaust heat would help. That is until it was catastrophic failure.
So now I'm in a difficult place pondering the choices and could use some real insight.

Thanks in advance for beneficial feedback

 

[BobnOH]

Do all runways indicate a blown turbo? I know they usually do.

 

[Nero Morg]

Overboosting causes the turbo to overspeed, which is probably why it failed. Hopefully it's just the nozzle ring sticking causing that, but Overboosting can also lead to poor fuel economy.

Id try replacing it with another Vnt17 in the meantime, if anything you can always tune for lower boost in the future, and with the Vnt17 it won't hurt it to "overboost" it, if it's tuned as a Vnt15.

Plus it saves time/money for replumbing everything.

 

[eddieleephd]

Do all runways indicate a blown turbo? I know they usually do.

They all indicate excess oil in the intake. However, I dumped about half a quart of oil out when I pulled the lower boost pipe apart. That's pretty definitive since there wasn't much before then. Should have left the hose dirty so it popped off instead of blowing the turbo.

Overboosting causes the turbo to overspeed, which is probably why it failed. Hopefully it's just the nozzle ring sticking causing that, but Overboosting can also lead to poor fuel economy.

Id try replacing it with another Vnt17 in the meantime, if anything you can always tune for lower boost in the future, and with the Vnt17 it won't hurt it to "overboost" it, if it's tuned as a Vnt15.

Plus it saves time/money for replumbing everything.

It just started causing limp mode and I was thinking about the cost savings of plumbing. $120 for a hose saved, but the mileage thing gets me too.
Why has my mileage suffered so bad. I have it hammered to an IQ of 9, and the timing seems to be perfect. The injectors are newer and seem fairly balanced.
Best I've been getting is 38 with all different tweeks. Timing, injectors, IQ, neither seemed to change it to much.

 

[Rapid Transit]

I’m running a VNT17 (GT1749VB) turbo with small injectors (DLC520) with no tune. My mileage did not drop from the stock injectors and turbo (45-50mpg). I am still on a 2.5-bar map and boosting to 13lbs. I do not overboost. I am still on the 10mm injection pump. My IQ is set to 2.8. Just a little smoke when I get on it. I am very happy with the 17.

 

[Andyinchville1]

How about a 17/22 or the new version of that from kerma?

I have been thinking of the new version of that but the man I spoke with at kerma was pushing the s7

I read somewhere that due to the lessened restriction of the new 17 hybrid and the flow optimization of the cold side that you can actually get better fuel economy to boot!

Yes , it does cost more $$ but turbos should last a long time so the cost isn't so painful looked at that way....

 

[Nero Morg]

If you're looking for fuel economy, go with a Vnt17, or revert back to stock and get a Vnt15. Going bigger turbo past a Vnt17 will start lessening fuel economy.

Also keep in mind there's other vendors out there, like IDparts and Cascade German. Shop around.

 

[Genesis]

1019s are perfectly ok with the OE VNT15. Mine has had them in it for well over 100k miles. No, you won't use "everything they can produce" but it certainly will not harm your fuel economy; the car is still very capable of returning 50mpg on the highway at RATIONAL speeds.

 

[jimbote]

You could replace the chra with a mellett unit.

 

[eddieleephd]

I’m running a VNT17 (GT1749VB) turbo with small injectors (DLC520) with no tune. My mileage did not drop from the stock injectors and turbo (45-50mpg). I am still on a 2-bar map and boosting to 13lbs. I do not overboost. I am still on the 10mm injection pump. My IQ is set to 2.8. Just a little smoke when I get on it. I am very happy with the 17.

Yeah I've been contemplating going to the 1.5 tune, however, it didn't run as well as expected. Maybe I should ask for my stock tune with asv off, start fix, and dynamic idle and go with the 17.

If you're looking for fuel economy, go with a Vnt17, or revert back to stock and get a Vnt15. Going bigger turbo past a Vnt17 will start lessening fuel economy.

Also keep in mind there's other vendors out there, like IDparts and Cascade German. Shop around.

Do you think the 17/22 or newer 17 hybrids are similar, or decrease mileage.

1019s are perfectly ok with the OE VNT15. Mine has had them in it for well over 100k miles. No, you won't use "everything they can produce" but it certainly will not harm your fuel economy; the car is still very capable of returning 50mpg on the highway at RATIONAL speeds.

I initially lost mileage when I cleaned my intake, dropped from 50 to 45. Stayed there when I went to the VNT 17. Dropped with the tune for some reason and I've run different changes that I've read make good improvements.

I'm finding it difficult to improve the mileage with physical changes, or software changes. Even considered going and creating my own fuel maps, however, that's a huge expense unless someone knows an editor I can modify with. The learning curve is still pretty large.

 

[eddieleephd]

How about a 17/22 or the new version of that from kerma?

I have been thinking of the new version of that but the man I spoke with at kerma was pushing the s7

I read somewhere that due to the lessened restriction of the new 17 hybrid and the flow optimization of the cold side that you can actually get better fuel economy to boot!

Yes , it does cost more $$ but turbos should last a long time so the cost isn't so painful looked at that way....

Guess I need to read up a bit more on those options, I haven't had the luck with mileage as everyone always says are possible.

You could replace the chra with a mellett unit.

Haven't looked at those options, not sure I want to undergo a huge changeover though.

 

[eddieleephd]

After a lot more reading I realize that I was biased before by my reading and still not really interested in the 17/22 or the BW turbos.
If I did go with a BW turbo it would be the S7 BV-39, otherwise known as BorgWarners VNT17 and runs a smaller wheel than the Garret 17 and is supposed to spool faster similar to the Garret 15.

Also keep in mind there's other vendors out there, like IDparts and Cascade German. Shop around.

I usually shop with the other vendors, even metalman and tunemyeuro, unfortunately he only carries BW turbo's.

 

[CableJockey]

I usually shop with the other vendors, even metalman and tunemyeuro, unfortunately he only carries BW turbo's.

??
I literally just bought a Garrett GT1749VB (VNT-17) from TuneMyEuro....
??

Is the car in question the one listed in your sig? It appears that you have somewhat heavy fueling mods that could contribute to less-than-expected economy.
Also, I find it odd that cleaning your intake resulted in decreased economy unless it resulted in some form of boost leak (Bad/damaged gasket?). Although that may explain turbo over-spooling.

 

[PakProtector]

I'd want to be sure there was nothing else wrong with boost control before going very far. If that is all in order the VNT17 should remain healthy...bearing wear from shutting down without a cool-down excluded.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[jmodge]

You could replace the chra with a mellett unit.

Cheapest simplest repair, put a new cartridge in it.

 

[eddieleephd]

??
I literally just bought a Garrett GT1749VB (VNT-17) from TuneMyEuro....
??

Is the car in question the one listed in your sig? It appears that you have somewhat heavy fueling mods that could contribute to less-than-expected economy.
Also, I find it odd that cleaning your intake resulted in decreased economy unless it resulted in some form of boost leak (Bad/damaged gasket?). Although that may explain turbo over-spooling.

Yes, it's the car in my sig. Stage 4 tune, DLC 1019 injectors and the stock 11MM IP are really the only fueling modifications. BEW lift pump isn't really a fueling mod as much as it is reducing restriction mod, which could allow more to be pushed. don't remember this changing anything when I did it though.
I ran the 1.5 tune and the mileage was lower than it has been on the stage 4. Also I ran the 520 injectors with comparable fuel consumption on the same tune. I've also pulled a trailer and stuck at 32mpg cross country which didn't vary terribly much mountains to flat land.

Physical timing on the belt is spot on and my injection timing is slightly above the center on the graph. Maybe I need to speak with the tuner once more as the fueling is largely in his field. I did give him the mods and made a request.

As far as decreased economy due to cleaned intake, the way it was put to me was that the reduced resistance in the intake allowed more air into the intake and the MAF sensed this and the ECU compensated with more fuel. In one way it makes total sense, in another it is a curious statement.

I did have the experience with an old truck of mine that had an O2 sensor added more fuel to accommodate the added oxygen from a hydrogen generator I installed on it. So the added oxygen sensed increasing fuel input definitely balances out.

I'd want to be sure there was nothing else wrong with boost control before going very far. If that is all in order the VNT17 should remain healthy...bearing wear from shutting down without a cool-down excluded.
cheers,
Douglas

Definitely going to inspect the turbo when removed, just recently replaced the N75 so it shouldn't be that.

Cheapest simplest repair, put a new cartridge in it.

I've read mixed reviews on this option.

 

[turbocharged798]

1019s are perfectly ok with the OE VNT15. Mine has had them in it for well over 100k miles. No, you won't use "everything they can produce" but it certainly will not harm your fuel economy; the car is still very capable of returning 50mpg on the highway at RATIONAL speeds.

Been running a 10mm/DLC1019s/VNT15 for years with no smoke or ill effects. In fact, for my 16PSI tune its not enough fuel. I have evry mod on top of it to give me a boost when I want it at the expense of smoke.

 

[eddieleephd]

Thanks everyone, ended up getting a new VNT17 and going to the 1.5 tune and see what that does.
Not sure where the nut on the intake side went...

 

[eddieleephd]

Pictures for comparison.

Blown intake turbine missing a nut

New intake turbine with nut.

Blown exhaust turbine

New exhaust turbine

 

[Nero Morg]

Dang that's nuts