Biodiesel Separates at Low Temp??

[ktm3ten]

I went by my local station that purports to carry Biodiesel yesterday. Guy working inside said they don't carry biodiesel in the winter because at low temps (we get to 0 on occasion, but mostly lows in the 20's) the biodiesel separates out. They normally (at least according to their website) sell B2 and B5 and B99.

Thoughts?

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

If winterized properly, you'll have no issues with B20 in your tank.

 

[Fourdiesel]

Biodiesel does NOT do well in cold weather. It begins to thicken up even sooner than regular diesel as the temp drops. If sufficiently diluted with winterized dino diesel it shouldn't have a problem clogging filters etc down to zero F. At temps much colder than that you have to do a lot of work to make sure the fuel, lines, filters, etc get warm and stay warm.

 

[MethylEster]

If the BD is made from animal fat's, then yes you would have a big problem. If, however, it is made from soybean oil, as the vast majority in the States is, then there is no problem for B20 and lower.

 

[naturist]

In my experience, it does not separate, rather it does not mix in the first place.

It is well known that to mix biodiesel and petrodiesel, both must be warmer than 40˚F, preferably warmer than 55˚F in order to properly dissolve in one another. This would show up as separating later if they were mixed too cold, when in fact, they were never properly mixed in the first place.

I have taken mixes at B5, B10, B20, B30, B40, B50 . . . B80, and B90 through cycles of freezing and thawing with and without various anti-gel formulas, and since all were properly mixed in the first place, while warm, I've seen no separation due to the cold. It is worth noting that the B50 mix was the most temperamental, as it became cloudy initially (at about 60˚F) and required 24-36 hours at temperature to clear, signaling final complete solution.

 

[wolfskin]

Hey, nice scientific approach!

Did you manage to adeqately "winterize" high bio blends (like B50 and higher)? I mean, once properly mixed, did they take the cold?

 

[Lug_Nut]

Did you manage to adequately "winterize" high bio blends (like B50 and higher)?

Mine haven't. 'Winterizing' treatments have worked only on the petroleum portion of the mixture. Trying to lower the gel point of B100, using treatments for petroleum diesel, is futile.
The gel temperature of a B50 mixture can be lowered, but only as the result of lowering the gel temperature of the petroleum diesel portion of the mix.
The less the petroleum portion (higher Biodiesel percent) the less effective the treatment. Even double or triple dosing the petroleum content of the mix has little to no added effect on the gel temperature of the mix.

but they don't stratify and become layers as the mix cools, it stays mixed.

 

[UFO]

In my experience, it does not separate, rather it does not mix in the first place.

It is well known that to mix biodiesel and petrodiesel, both must be warmer than 40˚F, preferably warmer than 55˚F in order to properly dissolve in one another. This would show up as separating later if they were mixed too cold, when in fact, they were never properly mixed in the first place.

I have taken mixes at B5, B10, B20, B30, B40, B50 . . . B80, and B90 through cycles of freezing and thawing with and without various anti-gel formulas, and since all were properly mixed in the first place, while warm, I've seen no separation due to the cold. It is worth noting that the B50 mix was the most temperamental, as it became cloudy initially (at about 60˚F) and required 24-36 hours at temperature to clear, signaling final complete solution.

This is what I have seen as well. I have various mixtures of biodiesel I leave outside to gauge the suitability of my bio percentage. We've had many temperature cycles now, where even my B50 has frozen solid, but when they thaw, they thaw uniformly with no separation that I have seen.

 

[naturist]

Hey, nice scientific approach!

Did you manage to adeqately "winterize" high bio blends (like B50 and higher)? I mean, once properly mixed, did they take the cold?

Nope. no such luck. What Lug_Nut said.

 

[RalphVa]

Haven't had a problem with B5 other than it cleaned out the tank on our old 240D after 3 tankfuls and plugged the fuel filter the only time in its 26 year life.

On my tractor, I had a wax dropout problem last winter when I got some off road D2. I took it back to the station and got a refund and bought some more on road B5 for the tractor. Not really much savings on off road here in Va to not have the flexibility to sometimes use a gallon or 2 of the tractor fuel sometimes in the TDI to get it to a fuel station.

 

[naturist]

I've run B20 (made with winterized petrodiesel) all winter here in Virginia in both the Jetta and the Libby with no problems.

 

[Zimm]

Lets say I wanted to run B2 in a 2011 JSW, in Idaho, in the winter, and I have to mix it myself. Is it going to do me any good to dump a warm quart of B100 into my tank before I fill it full of petodiesel out of cold tank at the station? I sure hope it will work because after reading all the threads on lubricants and HPFP failures you guys have me so confused I don't know if I am coming or going.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

Lets say I wanted to run B2 in a 2011 JSW, in Idaho, in the winter, and I have to mix it myself. Is it going to do me any good to dump a warm quart of B100 into my tank before I fill it full of petodiesel out of cold tank at the station? I sure hope it will work because after reading all the threads on lubricants and HPFP failures you guys have me so confused I don't know if I am coming or going.

At that ratio (1qt/~12-13Gal) it splash blends fine for me at reasonable temps >20F (as far as I can tell). I don't know the exact definition of "reasonable" here, but I probably wouldn't think twice about it at 10F. There's some lengthy discussion on the topic around here by really knowledgeable folks on Bio, just look around if you really want the details.

 

[b4black]

before I fill it full of petodiesel out of cold tank at the station?

That tank at the station is most likley a UST buried in the ground. In that case, the diesel won't be that cold. Probably about 45°F.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

That tank at the station is most likley a UST buried in the ground. In that case, the diesel won't be that cold. Probably about 45°F.

Good point.

 

[DocW1949]

I'm mostly concerned with lubricity. Living here in upstate NY it gets cold. Our 09 Jetta with just over 30,000 miles is on its second winter and has been to 16 below without any problems. I keep the car in a garage which rarely gets below 40 F. With each 10 gal fill up I add 5 oz of xpd. After the car is home and warmed up I add 1 qt of B99 well mixed with 3-4 qt of D2, both stored in my at least 60 degree basement. It would be a lot easier if b5 were available.

 

[Zimm]

Thanks for the advice. Our 2011 JSW is being assembled now. Finalized with dealer last night. Ready to drive it.