Biodiesel on "Trucks" this weekend

girl_mark

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

That's a Fuelmeister- lots of hype for $4,300, and it does not, under any circumstances, make good fuel.

Apparently they claimed it's pretty automatic or somethign on the show (which I didn't get to see)- the Fuelmeister has ONE timer and everythign else in the system is completely manual- ie you do the work, not the machine.




Mark
 
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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Saw the show. I thought he was went thurogh the information with enough of the details for the general audience, ok less cost of system.

Something that he mentioned, that many do not, is that the fuel source must not contain "Lard" baised grease.

However as he did not filter the fuel other than letting gravity separate the Bio-D from the heavier by-product.
I would have thought he would at least have run it through a filtration system when pumping into the truck.

All in all I think it was good exposure, just enough info so that people listen and become more aware of how it is done.
 

MrHilyPlausible

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I did have a bit of a problem with Stacey's lack of precaution during the show. When he mixed the lye and methanol, he did it without respiration and basically standing over the opening in the methanol mix tank. Also, when he was draining the glycerine, he ran it over his fingers. That bothered me because of the high levels of methanol still in that. I'm sure that exposure is not really enough to hurt him, but if he did it then a whole fist full of YaHoos are gonna try it and end up with ocular nerve damage. All in all, it was informative and the fact that he mentioned that the way you get started is to get the Fuel Meister kit... That ought to keep my WVO supplies intact for a while longer.
 

MrHilyPlausible

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

There are cheaper sources for full kits. If you are not mechanically inclined and don't feel like you can build one yourself, DIY Processor Kits has kits available that make use of water heaters. I don't want to promote one type, but this one link I knew of right off the top of my head. There are tons of other places to look for kits, you just need to search a bit.
 

RichC

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

For those of you wise enough to not just jump in with both feet ... listen to GirlMark, read a little bit more about different processor types (including the 'opensource' Appleseed) and the materials that they are made from before you leap. (I know, I know ... infomercials like the Trucks! episode for the FuelMeister is marketing at its finest) Remember it is your money and with that kind of investment you want to be sure you've got the handle on biodiesel making.

I've posted a bit more indepth on the SpikeTV Trucks! episode if you care to hear more of my opinion. (probably not necessary)

 

LeeM

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I mentioned the show just for the exposure it gave biodiesel. I just received my copy of Mark's book and have been looking at the Appleseed processor. The Appleseed processor makes a great deal of sense.
 

nh mike

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Let's see.... spend $3-5,000 on an unsafe FuelMeister that won't give you great quality fuel, or spend $15 buying Mark's book (www.localb100.com), and a couple hundred bucks buying the parts (and a free old electric water heater) to build an Appleseed, to make better quality fuel.... tough decision, eh?


For what you spend on a Fuelmeister, you could build several Appleseeds strung together, put in a nice vacuum system for methanol recovery and dewatering the WVO and biodiesel, and buy a flow through centrifuge off of ebay for quick glycerin separation (that's the biggest chunk of change).
 

girl_mark

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Thank you, guys.

I LOVE Fuelmeister-related math. People love to fantasize about what you could do if you 'didn't spend $3,000 (or $4,300 actually for a full system).

My favorite example of Fuelmeister math was Keith Addison pointing out a year or two ago, that if you built an approx $300 home-built system, you'd have enough money left over to make something like 8,000 gallons of biodiesel before you'd catch up to $4,300 (or was it $3,000? we were counting 50 cents a gallon worth of chemicals I think, the price of methanol went up a little since then...)

Mark
 

MrHilyPlausible

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Ahhhh More Fuel Meister related mathematics ---

If I only spent $150 in parts, that leaves me with $2850 left to get that 65" big screen TV and an entertainment system. Man I sure am glad I saved that extra money!!!
 

Variant TDI

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I'm curious.

Is there any reason to not use copper pipe in the Appleseed processor?
 

Blackknight

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Well, do you really want to sweat all those joints?

Black iron is cheap and easy to put together.

I'm going to put together a spreadsheet with all the parts I've bought listed, don't think there's more than $200 worth of hardware involved.
 

Variant TDI

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Eh... I like sweating. I was upset that the new house was almost entirely plastic and glue. It's almost too easy.

So, there's no chemical reason not to... just ease of manufacture?
 

ofhs93

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Hmmmm....I'm not sure what kind of chemical reaction methanol would have on copper? Or meth and lye mixed....that I believe would be quite caustic. Maybe I'm way off base though.
 

RichC

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

"Brass, bronze, copper, lead, tin, and zinc may accelerate the oxidation of diesel and biodiesel fuels and potentially create fuel insolubles (sediments) or gels and salts when reacted with some fuel components. Lead solders and zinc linings should be avoided, as should copper pipes, brass regulators, and copper fittings. The fuel or the fittings will tend to change color and insolubles may plug fuel filters. Affected equipment should be replaced with stainless steel, carbon steel, or aluminum."

Quoted from Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines
 

Variant TDI

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Well... there's the answer to that question.

Thanks.
 

DieselSmoker

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Are there any processors that will make good fuel that you can simply buy with no building involved? How about the biodieselgear.com processors?
 

LeeM

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

So, are there water heaters that have other than copper heating elements?
 

ofhs93

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I have never seen a water heater WITH a copper heating element. At least no electric one that I can think of.

"Are there any processors that will make good fuel that you can simply buy with no building involved? How about the biodieselgear.com processors?"

ANY proccessor that you look at that is based on coned bottomed PLASTIC tanks is NOT something you want for NUMEROUS reasons......Biodieselwarehouse.com now has an option on thier website...they will come to your house and setup an 80gallon appleseed proccessor for you and make the 1st batch and all. Of course...it costs $2k. Pickup the phone and call your local plumber...get an old water heater for free....and buy Girl_Mark's book....take the parts list and go to home Depot and spend a nice relaxing day putting it together

It will cost you LESS than $200 and think of the sense of accomplishment you'll have
Then take the $1800 you saved and buy a big screen TV or new computer or something


Check out biodieselnow.com for lots of details and links ect....if your serious about making BioD I REALLY suggest you get G_M's guide 1st to make sure you go about the proccess properly.
 

girl_mark

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Hey I'll come to your house and build you a processor and show you how to use it for $2K!!!

but also, biodieselwarehouse.com and b100supply.com and utahbiodieselsupply.com all make fully finished built processors. I think they range around $1000 or so, don't complain to them if I have their prices wrong, though!


Mark
 

girl_mark

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I gotta say, though , I think this show did a good job in showing people that it's easy to make biodiesel. I"m on a number of 'truck' forums because that's what I actually drive, and all the people who've bothered to get on the 'net on those forums and discuss this show, seem to have reached the conclusion 'wow it's so easy- but I wouldn't spend that kind of money', which works well because inevitably someone's gotten in there and said 'but you can build one for $300 instead'.

I think that it's been a very positive thing overall.

Rick of b100supply.com has suggested that a good thing to do for making 'videos' of the biodiesel process would be to go to the local public access TV studio and use their wonderful funded professional lighting/camera resources to film some nice videos. Obviously those wouldn't get on TV, but you could put them on the 'net and a lot of folks would benefit. I"d be glad to host anything like that at localb100.com/cbt

Mark

ps I finally benefitted from a Fuelmeister- I went to a propane place to see if I could get a cheap decommissioned propane tank, and the guy who owned the place had just seen Trucks- and he offered me a bunch of free tanks just because he was SOOOOO excited about homebrewing biodiesel after seeing the show (but he also didn't see the point of spending $4000+)

Mark
 

DieselSmoker

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

ANY proccessor that you look at that is based on coned bottomed PLASTIC tanks is NOT something you want for NUMEROUS reasons......Biodieselwarehouse.com now has an option on thier website...they will come to your house and setup an 80gallon appleseed proccessor for you and make the 1st batch and all. Of course...it costs $2k. Pickup the phone and call your local plumber...get an old water heater for free....and buy Girl_Mark's book....take the parts list and go to home Depot and spend a nice relaxing day putting it together

It will cost you LESS than $200 and think of the sense of accomplishment you'll have
Then take the $1800 you saved and buy a big screen TV or new computer or something


Check out biodieselnow.com for lots of details and links ect....if your serious about making BioD I REALLY suggest you get G_M's guide 1st to make sure you go about the proccess properly.
My problems is I have very few 'nice relaxing days' as it is, and I don't want to spend it building a processor. To me my time is worth more than the money saved from spending $2k..I don't need a bigger tv or new computer.. I'm just looking for a plug and play system that's capable of making quality fuel, that I don't have to build. I guess I'm willing to pay for convenience. I also don't want to have to spent countless hours reading about the various aspects of production, titration, etc. Having someone come out and set it up and demonstrate etc might not be a bad thing. Has anyone on the forum actually gone this route?
 

DrStink

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

To me my time is worth more than the money saved from spending $2k..I don't need a bigger tv or new computer.. I'm just looking for a plug and play system that's capable of making quality fuel, that I don't have to build. I guess I'm willing to pay for convenience.
Fair enough. But the Fuelmeister is a piece of junk that makes crappy fuel.

If you don't want to spend time sourcing parts why not buy one of these kits? Picking up a new water heater at Home Depot and assembling the reactor using one of those kits should cost you no more than a Saturday morning.

I also don't want to have to spent countless hours reading about the various aspects of production, titration, etc. Having someone come out and set it up and demonstrate etc might not be a bad thing.
Well. As valid as "see one, do one, teach one" is as a learning method, you really need to understand the process to be able to make good fuel consistantly.

And understanding means reading and thinking through the process before you ever touch a reactor or perform a titration. Like any other skill, you need to first crawl, and then walk before you can run. Still you are spot on that one can waste hundreds of hours reading all the various guides available online.

Thus, I'd recommend the the Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial as it is a great concise resource.

Process Summary

Titration Basics

Cheers.

DrS
 

nh mike

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

ps I finally benefitted from a Fuelmeister- I went to a propane place to see if I could get a cheap decommissioned propane tank, and the guy who owned the place had just seen Trucks- and he offered me a bunch of free tanks just because he was SOOOOO excited about homebrewing biodiesel after seeing the show (but he also didn't see the point of spending $4000+)

Mark
Propane tanks? Let me guess - methanol recovery system?


I picked up a few old propane and other compressed gas tanks from our local recycle center. Those will make nice condensing tanks. For our large processors at Dorn's, we're trying to use a 40 gallon water heater tank as the condensing tank.
 

nh mike

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

My problems is I have very few 'nice relaxing days' as it is, and I don't want to spend it building a processor. To me my time is worth more than the money saved from spending $2k..I don't need a bigger tv or new computer.. I'm just looking for a plug and play system that's capable of making quality fuel, that I don't have to build. I guess I'm willing to pay for convenience. I also don't want to have to spent countless hours reading about the various aspects of production, titration, etc. Having someone come out and set it up and demonstrate etc might not be a bad thing. Has anyone on the forum actually gone this route?
Nope, but if you do, Girl Mark would be your best bet for learning how to do it.

Something to consider though - if you don't want to spend much time on this, you might find that you don't want to spend the time involved in collecting WVO and making biodiesel either, even if you don't have to build a processor. Just something to consider. You *could* buy commercial biodiesel, rather than making it.
 

nicklockard

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

Rich, thanks for providing links on "your desultory blog". I really like how much enthusiasm Stacey has for the subject. It was brilliant marketing on FreedomFuel's part to teach him how to make bioD and get him hooked (I'm sure he gets some kick-backs.)
 

BigSteve

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

I had already put together an "appleseed" processor when Girl Mark passed through and gave a seminar. It proved invaluable and I would strongly recommend attending a workshop if you're not too mechanically inclined. Nothing too tricky but inspiring none the less. If you are going to fool around with producing your own fuel you will have to get involved in the "dirty" work of collection, titration, methoxide etc. I would be happy to show anyone the ropes!
 

nicklockard

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Re: Biodiesel on \"Trucks\" this weekend

We need a crying in self-pity icon. I live in a small apartment
Wish I had room for a reactor...I'd be making bioD along with all of you.
Alas, no utility or garage space...one day....
 
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