Biodiesel and VW Warranty

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Maxx

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Feb 3, 2004
Sorry if this question has been asked before, probably many times, but will using biodiesel void the VW warranty? I just found out that I can get B20 right here in Colorado Springs but don't have a TDI yet. :-(

Thanks in advance.

Craig
 

TDiMike

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The better question to ask is: "How many people have had their warranty claims denied by VWoA because of biodiesel use"

There's been a lot of sabre-rattling on the subject of warranty, but so far it all seems like talk. I've read no account of a biodiesel-related failure of a TDI engine whereby the driver was denied warranty service.

It's kinda like the failed fuel pump thread - lots of talk but nobody had a failed fuel pump as result of biodiesel use.

So looks at the numbers and the evidence. Lots and lots of TDI's (with ALH engine) running bioD without problems. I'm one of em, and can't recommend it enough.

-
 

Geordi

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Just considering the members of this forum, there is well over 1 million combined miles of Biodiesel usage, with much of that being on pure biodiesel, B100. The users of biodiesel are spread across models and transmission types, as well as geographic locations in the USA and Canada. I personally have over 35k miles continuously on B100 homebrew that I made myself. There is a small group of homebrewers here that have made large quantities of their own fuel, I consider myself to be part of that group since I have produced well over 1000 gallons to date. There are also about 3 naysaying trolls that like to repeat themselves, post non-linked copies of information from elsewhere that is frequently modified to suit their goals, and generally just spread half-truths and bald-faced lies to confuse people.

The truth is this: After the bulk of evidence is reviewed, there have been no actual, verifiable reports of engine failure or injection pump failure due to in-spec biodiesel usage. There HAVE BEEN failures due to poor quality DINO-DIESEL or poor quality biodiesel. Bad fuel (of any type) will never be covered by a vehicle manufacturer warranty. Period. You MAY get the local dealer to pay for a repair, under their "Customer Satisfaction" account, a general slush fund for non-covered repair work. This is entirely up to the individual dealer, and usually only happens if you haven't been a dick to the service dept.

Enjoy your Biodiesel usage, and please do not feed the trolls. People like myself, Wally, Bio_Bug and NH Mike will be happy to honestly address any questions you may have.

--Jim
 
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SkyPup

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"Thank you for visiting the Volkswagen of America Web site. We appreciate your inquiry on Volkswagen's position on using biodiesel fuel. B100 stands for 100% biodiesel. It is a diesel fuel derived from biomass feedstock such as soybeans. It can be blended with regular diesel fuel (B20 = 20% biodiesel/80% regular diesel, for example). In Europe our diesel engines are certified to operate any blend of the biodiesel that is available in Europe. European biodiesel is different than biodiesel in the U.S. since it is produced from different feedstock (the rapeseed plant versus the soy plant)."

"Our parent company (VWAG) does not agree with the specifications for biodiesel in the U.S. and does not recommend its use in any percentage. Using biodiesel will invalidate our warranty."
 

TDiMike

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Maax, take a look at Skypup's post - it's a great example of the only thing the nay-sayers can post. There's no reports or evidence, just "covertheirass" type policy statements from VWoA they can repeat vertbatim.

-
 

The Trouts

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was Bio-Pod <sniff>
Maax, take a look at Skypup's post - it's a great example of the only thing the nay-sayers can post. There's no reports or evidence, just "covertheirass" type policy statements from VWoA they can repeat vertbatim.-
And no links, as usual.

SkyPup, You're posts are truly pathetic.

B100 and my TDI have travelled over 40,000 miles together.

I wonder what SkyPup actually does with his day, other than to trash talk something that I've been doing for three years. Maybe I should blast something here rather than participate positively on a different forum.

So many negative posts for so long?

It's *gotta* hurt.

More to be pitied than scorned I guess.

I am trying real hard to attact the posts, not the poster.



....setting phaser to IGNORE.....
 

spifflifkin

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I keep hearing that using biodiesel will void your cars warranty, yet every time I talk to the service reps at VW (Carter VW in Seattle and Chaplin’s in Bellevue), they always say the same thing. It doesn't void your warranty. With a disclaimer, they don't warranty the fuel that goes in your car.

Like MITBeta said in the BioDieselNow forum,

The bottom line is that car manufacturers don't warrant for "misfueling" so if you do end up having a problem while running biodiesel (that's directly attributable to biodiesel) then don't expect VW to help you out.
I wish people would quit saying that it voids your warranty! I've been bringing my '03 Jetta Sedan (purchased 12/02) into Carter VW since I bought it (from them), with B100 in the tank and a BD sticker on the window. In fact, when I bought the car, I had never heard of BD. The salesman I bought the car from told me about it. Since then, B100 is about all I've used (15K of 20K on the clock).

Back to the warranty. My brakes started dragging because of a faulty brake booster. That was replaced under warranty as well as the brake switch. There have been several loose parts, rattles, etc that have all been replaced/fixed under warranty. Some cooling part broke which was replaced under warranty. ALL WHILE RUNNING B100. And while the dealer knew I was running B100.</pre><hr />
 
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SkyPup

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Biodiesel and VW Warranty *DELETED*

Post deleted by Moderator
 

Oberkanone

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VW does not support the use of biodiesel in TDI in North America. It is that simple.

If you feel that the information posted by Skypup is incorrect you can contact corporate office of VW and obtain the information yourself.
There is nothing negative in posting this information.

The fact that independent VW dealers complete warranty work on vehicles using biodiesel does not change VW's position on North American biodiesel.
It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.

If you don't like VW's position then argue with VW.
 

deerleg

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It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.
I think I will stay in bed today..there is a risk involved in going to work. I could be run over by a B-100 crazed TDI driver!
 

Maxx

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Thanks for the input, everyone. I guess I won't worry about the warranty since I really want to support the biodiesel effort. Now I just need a vehicle to put it in! :)
 

Ricdude

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TDI
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VW does not support the use of biodiesel in TDI in North America. It is that simple.

If you feel that the information posted by Skypup is incorrect you can contact corporate office of VW and obtain the information yourself.
There is nothing negative in posting this information.
It is customary to provide a link to the source, so as to make it easier for those interested to verify the source, and and the quote. In this case it's something we've all seen many times over again, though, and *VW's claim* is not disputed.

The fact that independent VW dealers complete warranty work on vehicles using biodiesel does not change VW's position on North American biodiesel.
The fact is that repairs unrelated to the biodiesel use must also be covered under the Magnusson Moss Act. What does VW mean when they say "Biodiesel use voids your warranty"? They can't mean that my failed window regulator clips won't be covered, because that would be an illegal warranty exclusion under the law. They could refuse warranty coverage if high water content in biodiesel damaged the fuel injector pump. They could do the same for damage caused by high water content in petrodiesel, too. Oddly enough, I can't buy petroleum diesel fuel with the minimum recommended cetane levels anywhere near me. Biodiesel is the only fuel that meets that requirement. If low cetane fuel causes a problem with my engine, VW could deny warranty coverage for that failure, too.

It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.

If you don't like VW's position then argue with VW.
There is a risk using any fuel. The following is my personal assessment. I am not a lawyer. Don't believe anything here, unless you're willing to do the research to back it up and take ultimate responsibility for any consequences thereof: If your car is damaged due to out-of-specification petrodiesel, you might be able to get the fuel station, or the fuel supplier to pay for the repairs. If biodiesel use causes damage, since VW does not specifically state that biodiesel use is ok, they fuel provider is may not be obligated to pay for the damages. If they claim to sell ASTM grade biodiesel, and testing proves otherwise, you will be able to get something back from them, up to, presumably the cost of replacement of damaged parts.

If that's a risk you're not comfortable taking, biodiesel isn't for you. Yet.

That said, about 1/3 of my fuel for the last year (since I bought the car) has been biodiesel. The car runs quieter, smoother, and there are numerous environmental and geopolitical benefits to its use, where possible. I know of dozens of people here, and in other forums, who combined have millions of trouble-free miles on their cars.

If you're interested in running your car on biodiesel, you might want to see what European car manufacturers have done to provide biodiesel compatibility:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels.html

Basically, they replace natural rubber gaskets and seals with synthetic rubbers. The same replacements required for diesel engines to be compatible with ULSD (ultra-low sulfur diesel) fuel, to be federally mandated nationwide in 2006.

Good luck.
 

Oberkanone

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It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.
I think I will stay in bed today..there is a risk involved in going to work. I could be run over by a B-100 crazed TDI driver!
Be reasonable. Very few people would choose not to use biodiesel based on VW's position, however, everyone deserves to know what the VW position is.

If biodiesel was available in my area it would be my preferred fuel.
Smoother running and less smoke, more power is my experience when I used B20 in my previous TDI's.

People are out of line accusing people of being trolls for stating VW's policy on biodiesel.
 

Oberkanone

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The fact is that repairs unrelated to the biodiesel use must also be covered under the Magnusson Moss Act.
Magnusson Moss is no safe harbor. You will end up in arbitration with VW and it's engineers and lawyer's before Mag Moss is relevant. Will likely cost you more than the car if you end up in court.

I'm not questioning the quality of biodiesel. Commercial biodiesel is IMO higher quality than regular diesel.

The chances of ever having problems with biodiesel and VW warranty are as likely as snow in Texas in July.

Skypup only stated the VW policy on biodiesel.

Phone numbers and address for VW are at www.vw.com if you want to verify the source.
 
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SkyPup

Guest
VW does not support the use of biodiesel in TDI in North America. It is that simple.

If you feel that the information posted by Skypup is incorrect you can contact corporate office of VW and obtain the information yourself.
There is nothing negative in posting this information.
It is customary to provide a link to the source, so as to make it easier for those interested to verify the source, and and the quote. In this case it's something we've all seen many times over again, though, and *VW's claim* is not disputed.

The fact that independent VW dealers complete warranty work on vehicles using biodiesel does not change VW's position on North American biodiesel.
The fact is that repairs unrelated to the biodiesel use must also be covered under the Magnusson Moss Act. What does VW mean when they say "Biodiesel use voids your warranty"? They can't mean that my failed window regulator clips won't be covered, because that would be an illegal warranty exclusion under the law. They could refuse warranty coverage if high water content in biodiesel damaged the fuel injector pump. They could do the same for damage caused by high water content in petrodiesel, too. Oddly enough, I can't buy petroleum diesel fuel with the minimum recommended cetane levels anywhere near me. Biodiesel is the only fuel that meets that requirement. If low cetane fuel causes a problem with my engine, VW could deny warranty coverage for that failure, too.

It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.

If you don't like VW's position then argue with VW.
There is a risk using any fuel. The following is my personal assessment. I am not a lawyer. Don't believe anything here, unless you're willing to do the research to back it up and take ultimate responsibility for any consequences thereof: If your car is damaged due to out-of-specification petrodiesel, you might be able to get the fuel station, or the fuel supplier to pay for the repairs. If biodiesel use causes damage, since VW does not specifically state that biodiesel use is ok, they fuel provider is may not be obligated to pay for the damages. If they claim to sell ASTM grade biodiesel, and testing proves otherwise, you will be able to get something back from them, up to, presumably the cost of replacement of damaged parts.

If that's a risk you're not comfortable taking, biodiesel isn't for you. Yet.

That said, about 1/3 of my fuel for the last year (since I bought the car) has been biodiesel. The car runs quieter, smoother, and there are numerous environmental and geopolitical benefits to its use, where possible. I know of dozens of people here, and in other forums, who combined have millions of trouble-free miles on their cars.

If you're interested in running your car on biodiesel, you might want to see what European car manufacturers have done to provide biodiesel compatibility:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels.html

Basically, they replace natural rubber gaskets and seals with synthetic rubbers. The same replacements required for diesel engines to be compatible with ULSD (ultra-low sulfur diesel) fuel, to be federally mandated nationwide in 2006.

Good luck.
The simple fact is you cannot supply a statement from Volkswagen in their support of any concentration of Biodiesel use in their equipment...
 

JettaJake

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and yet another WORTHLESS post from skypuke....dude, don't you have anything better to do with your time than spew your slime into these discussions? MODERATOR!!!!
 

OrbitEleven

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By the way, SkyPup, I'm currious to hear from you too. I'm not really meaning to slam you, I just notice you really don't like biodiesel.
 
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SkyPup

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Biodiesel and VW Warranty *DELETED*

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DPM

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Thom, must you go on and on about this? By now everyone is well aware the VWOA doesn't have any faith in bioD made in the US to poor standards. VWAG in common with all the other Euro manufacturers are PERFECTLY happy to let the consumer use QUALITY biofuel. But the same manufacturers would be perfectly happy to void one's warranty in Euroland too if it could be proven that the fuel was non-conforming.

VWOA are simply saying that duff fuel voids warranties, and there is a greater risk of poor quality biofuel because of the lack of commercial controls. Given that the average VW tech can't even change oil successfully how do you reckon they're going to pin down the blame on Biofuel? Anyway, bad fuel is bad fuel. Doesn't matter if you use petro- or bio-, if it stuffs your engine, YOU pay.

Guys, if you make your own, you are your own QC. If you buy it, you're still the QC. Your choice. But it you choose wrong, your warranty!
 
Joined
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rivetbutt
ok.. Canola oil is available in the US.. why aren't there outlets for bio-d using rapeseed instead of just soy? is the SOY lobby that strong?
 

DBugged

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JettaJake,
While I too tire of reading(seeing and then moving on)the Identical post over and over again, It is up to all of us as individuals to make up our own minds. Skypup is a very opinionated individual and likes to light you guys up. Its obvious when he re-posts the identical text 3 times in the same thread that he is doing it by design to watch the sparks fly. Its a real shame that he can be that way sometimes, but, some of his other posts have been very informative in the past.If the MODERATOR can't do anything about it, then WE need to grow up, and act more professionally. Have fun, but if the posts inflame you or any of us, ignore them, move on and enjoy the really great information that can be found all over this site. This is not a shot at you or Skypup.I'd just like to be able to sit back with a cold one and read some informative discussion without a lot of quibbeling. We all get too much of that at our jobs. PEACE EVERYONE. Go drive your toy around the block and come back with a BIG
smile.....its a TDI!!!!!!

alan
 

Geordi

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Moderators won't do anything about Thom, he is a "good buddy" and is under their protection. It's kind of like how the grade-school teacher always had to protect the "short bus" kids from the normal ones.

Besides, the clinical definition of insanity is continually saying (or doing) the same thing and expecting a different result.
 
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SkyPup

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Remember the title of this thread?


BIODIESEL AND VW WARRANTY


There is NONE.
 

Ricdude

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Remember the title of this thread?


BIODIESEL AND VW WARRANTY


There is NONE.
Ok, so VW has no obligation to repair anything that breaks on my car if I have put so much as a drop of biodiesel in my tank? Is that what you're saying? That's what "voiding the warranty" would mean, right?

So if my window regulator clips break, VW won't be obliged to repair them? Even though it's a known defect, if my warranty is void, VW won't repair it? Is that what you're trying to say?

If my FIP is from a batch known to have a faulty part, and would otherwise be repaired/replaced due to recall, are you trying to say that VW won't fix it? Is that what you mean?

If my FIP is damaged from waterlogged petrodiesel use, can I go to VW and get them to fix it for me? Is that any different from using biodiesel?

Yes, people interested in using biodiesel need to know the risks involved in doing so. However, just because VW doesn't specifically endorse the use of biodiesel in their vehicles, doesn't mean using good quality (ASTM spec.) biodiesel will immediately cause your car to explode at first contact. The topic of using ECU ships with alternate fuel injector maps (regardless of such posts' forum) never seems to warrant mentioning that such a replacement may "void your warranty".

The fact is that the warranty exclusion isn't as simple as you lay out in three words. According to the law (as I read it, not being a lawyer, etc.), if the damage isn't due to the fuel use, VW has to cover it (subject to other terms of warranty) regardless of the fuel used. If the damage is due to the fuel, petrodiesel or biodiesel, VW doesn't have to cover it. They may choose to, they may not choose to. Substandard fuel isn't VW's fault, nor their responsibility to repair.

As I said before, do your research, make a judgement, take responsibility for your choices.

BTW, as far as insanity goes, doesn't that apply to the rest of us as well?
 
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SkyPup

Guest
VW doesn't warrant the use of unleaded gasoline in TDIs either....
 

Sappington

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VW just replaced my MAF under warranty. No mention of the biodiesel stickers I have plastered all over my car....
 
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SkyPup

Guest
Sounds very interesting, were you claiming to them that your use of biodiesel is why your MAF failed?
 

deerleg

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It is important to understand that there is a risk involved when using biodiesel.
I think I will stay in bed today..there is a risk involved in going to work. I could be run over by a B-100 crazed TDI driver!
Be reasonable. Very few people would choose not to use biodiesel based on VW's position, however, everyone deserves to know what the VW position is.
It was a joke…I love the discussions here so post away and continue the debate. I guess at times different positions strike me as somewhat ridged (that’s the beauty of these forums, you can do that) so I made a wisecrack and meant it only in the most lighthearted tone.
I can be reasonable but never too serious.
 
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