BIO DIESEL INFO FROM VW,

vwrobert51

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ok guys I have in my hand a new offical VOA brocure on the use of bio, should be at all vw dalers soon although its for b-5 whats interesting is at the end it tells you to log on to biodiesel.org for biodiesel dealers, like i had said before its now here, so happy days.
 

c5loadmaster

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Aloha TDI'r,

If you review the biodiesel.org website and click on news items. There is one from March '05 that states that VW and ADM
(Archer Daniel Midlands) are reviewing and testing B20. There are alot more B20 pumps around than B5. The VWOA brochure is also found on the VW website as a pdf file.
Also on the biodiesel.org site under auto companies, VW has a entry. Click on Volkswagen at the bottom and their letter is also printed there as a pdf.
When I was in Deutschland, VW allows B100, but in Deutschland they use rape seed oil and maybe there is a difference between that and soy bean oil.
Robert
 

vwrobert51

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thats what i was trying to tell you all is the fact that vw has a printed brocure on biodiesel avlb to public on the use of biodiesel , shows that they have changed their tune on biodiesel use in U.S. i know b-20 comming very soon,
 

StElmo

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When I was in Deutschland, VW allows B100, but in Deutschland they use rape seed oil and maybe there is a difference between that and soy bean oil.
Robert
Rape seed oil is better known as Canola oil here in the US. A farmer in Lincoln County WA told me this year that canola cannot account for more than 5% of the county's crop production and none can be produced for industrial purposes, i.e. biodiesel.

Might be the laws here that are preventing canola based BD from being produced.
 

DrStink

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Rape seed oil is better known as Canola oil here in the US.
Actually no. Canola is a special low-erucic acid rapeseed cultivar. Regular rapeseed is not fit for human consumption.

A farmer in Lincoln County WA told me this year that canola cannot account for more than 5% of the county's crop production and none can be produced for industrial purposes, i.e. biodiesel.
Hmm. Bust out the AFDBs. I disbelieve unless you can should me a USDA webpage that says otherwise.

Might be the laws here that are preventing canola based BD from being produced.
Well, follow the money and you'll discover that the NBB is funded via checkoff dollars from the Soybean Council or whatever their official name is.

Curious that the NBB website doesn't have a single mention of algal biodiesel, eh?
 

MRIBOB

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There are alot more B20 pumps around than B5.
That is not a big problem.
Just need to do the math. Putting 2.5 Gals of B20 in a empty Jetta tank and then filling the rest with ULSD makes B5. The only problem is you have to pump twice or go to another station if they dont have ULSD.


Exsample: 1 Gal B20 + 3 Gal ULSD = 4 gal B5
So about 2.5 Gal B20 and then filling up the rest with regular will give you somewhere in the 4% to 6% range.

Here in San Diego the place with B20 also has ULSD so its still only one stop for fuel.
 

c5loadmaster

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Thanks TJ,
Is the place you are talking about the RTC station at I-15 & El Cajon Blvd???
I'm in Hemet just over the border in Riverside Co.
rob
 

llessur

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its good news, but a drag for me...

there is a bio-diesel pump literally 1 block away from me, but it only pumps out b20. since i just bought an 05 tdi i am not willing to void my warranty...

i'll have to work on the math end of things... (thanks mribob)
 

DrStink

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its good news, but a drag for me...

there is a bio-diesel pump literally 1 block away from me, but it only pumps out b20. since i just bought an 05 tdi i am not willing to void my warranty...

i'll have to work on the math end of things... (thanks mribob)
*sigh* B20 use will not "void your warranty".

If your transmission breaks, and you have a tankful of B100, you're still covered.

If your turbo breaks, and you have a tankful of B100, you're still covered.

If you have a tankful of B20, and your injector pump fails, the dealer may *choose* to decline to cover the repair under warranty. But of course, the dealer can also do that if you get a bad tank of petrodiesel. Fuel related problems are not covered by the dealer, period.

But even ignoring all that, you could always just run B20 normally and then top off with B-zero prior to taking it in for service.
 

llessur

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thanks for the info drstink.

think i will take your suggestion, and run her on b20. or at least a mix.
 

vwrobert51

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guys guys guys, its over! lets get this right. VWOA< is now allowing bio diesel use and is slowly going to b100, so not to worry about waranty concerns most problems with biodiesel use will be taken care of so long as bio is from main staions, with quality bio, it home brewers that will still have some concerns, so lets get on with it.
 

Fahrfuwerfuelen

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But even ignoring all that, you could always just run B20 normally and then top off with B-zero prior to taking it in for service.
How many dealers are actually going to sample and test the fuel to determine if it contains biodiesel? Are there any tests which can determine the % of biodiesel in fuel? The cost of these tests?

Seems as though VWoA might have issues with warranty repairs for any fuel related problems and try to pass the blame off on the fuel supplier.

Unless you are runing B100 (maybe the smell and color could give it away), I think it would be hard to tell what % of bio someone had in their tank if the owner did admit to using bio.
 

vwrobert51

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like i said, biodiesel and waranty should no longer be an issue, now that vw has a brocure prasing the future use of biodiesel if its still a problem just show them their own brocure,,
 

SUNRG

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its good news, but a drag for me...

there is a bio-diesel pump literally 1 block away from me, but it only pumps out b20. since i just bought an 05 tdi i am not willing to void my warranty...

i'll have to work on the math end of things... (thanks mribob)
IMO - this is a unreasonable concern. however, 2.5 gallons of B20 mixed with 7.5 gallons of B0 (petroD) will yield 10 gallons of VWoA approved B5.

we have 65,000 biodiesel miles on our 2004 PD-TDIs (B50-B100 - our storage tank currently contains ~165 gallons of ASTM B66), both run flawlessly, and used oil lab analyses show that both vehicles are enjoying significantly reduced engine wear as a result of our BioDiesel use.
 

Thunderstruck

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If you buy crappy dino diesel, you're not covered either. I just mix mine since the place I go has both. A couple of gallons of B20 to top off the tank with, and I'm at B5 so Vw won't ***** if something happens.
 

BeetleGo

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Robert,

This thread got me reading the fact sheets on biodiesel.org http://biodiesel.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/default.shtm

And I ran across this info in the 2004 Backgrounder:

--------

OEM Acceptance Grows. The use of B20 will not void the engine warrnety of any major US diesel engine manufacturer, but NBB is actively working with industry on securing stronger position statements from Original Equipment Manufacturers. A major initiative is also under way to ensure 2007 clean-diesel engines are biodiesel certified.

--------

While the initiative referred to in the latter half of that statement isn't the same thing as an industry standard, I think it's safe to say that if you drive a modern diesel and fuel it with commercial, ASTM certified B20, the chances of a dealership voiding your warranty for it is pretty much zilch nowadays. The onus is really on the dealer to demonstrate that the fuel caused your headlight wiring harness, window regulator, MAF, etc. to fail (not that they ever had a legal arguement not to). If you came in with a fried fuel pump, however, it might make things simpler if you kept your biodiesel receipts though. Demonstrating that you use a commercial-grade fuel should pretty much shut anyone up who wanted to scream BIO-USER! (instead of getting on with the task at hand, namely to repair any warranty work requested).

Yes, we've come that far.


~BG
 

JettaJake

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Was in my dealer's place today and got handed one of the bio-brochures by one of the service guys. He is well aware I run the stuff (sorta hard to hide the license plate
) and he has had general, rather basic questions for me about it on past visits.

This time he wasn't working with me but saw me and whipped into the office to get me a copy --- he handed it to me like it was fresh off the presses with the comment, "there's lots of good info in there - very interesting, you gotta check it out" -- I thanked him but didn't press him into further conversation.

What really struck me most here was that they are just learning about it themselves and they either just got their brochures or they are just now getting around to reading it themselves


Yes, progress is being made, but it seems there is still quite a way to go before even the mere concept of bioD has fully penetratated into all VW dealerships (much less the average consumer). I like that the brochure includes the URL for bioD.org....

JJ
 

vwrobert51

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update! as this post was made in july, at my dealer shop the whole issue with biodiesel gas faded out, and most of our cust. that are running bio have returned for normal service work without the fear of being belittled about bio dieseluse,in fact I have been working with the folks at pac biodiesel, and they have helped me questnable fuel samples, from home brewers ,that just dont have the quality fuel, so bottom line is so long as your running bio from pacficbio diesel, you should have no problem with waranty from us.
 
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