bio anti-gel additive

[fish_on]

What can I put in b100 in the winter to keep it from gelling? I will be in temps from 30f/-10f

 

[Dave_D]

Kerosene, Diesel #1 or winterized Diesel #2. There has yet to be an anti-gel developed to work with B100, the best you can do is B20. If you have access to a good freezer you could test out mixes ahead of time to see what will work with the b100 you are using. Part of the reason there is no B100 anti-gel yet is that it would need to be developed for the particular mix of methyl-esters for that particular stock. If your b100 will vary over the winter you will want to continue testing to ensure you avoid a gelling situation.

 

[Lug_Nut]

The antigels aimed at biodiesel are effective on biodiesel blends. Their effectiveness diminishes as the percentage of bio increases until at B100 there is nearly no change in gel point. The antigel for petroleum diesel fuel is equally as effective on bio / petro blends as the biodiesel blend antigel, and usually less expensive per dose at the recommended rate. Others have done their own tests and do not agree with my findings.

My antigel of choice is winterized #2 and a fresh fuel filter at the beginning the winter season.

I'm using B100 from a different supplier than past winters. I used to be able to safely run B100 with no additives down to 32F. New fuel filter plugging on that B100 would start at 25F and below leaving me 7 degrees F of reserve. Used fuel filters will begin to plug at higher temperatures.
I have yet to determine, as Dave suggests, my current B100 supply's cold temperature capability.

 

[nh mike]

Some antigel additives ARE effective with biodiesel. Lubrizol has a new biodiesel antigel out, and I've personally had good results with Power Services' Biodiesel Antigel. Theirs doesn't work great, but does reduce the gel point of B100. The issue is that you can still have filter plugging due to the fact that an antigel additive doesn't prevent clouding of the fuel. With the additive and a heater before my fuel filter, I have been able to run soy B100 (with the additive) down a bit below 20F. But, as the temp drops, you eventually get enough clouding that the strainer back at the fuel tank clogs (I don't think my fuel filter ever clogged, as the heater should have prevented it). Preventing clouding is much more difficult than preventing gelling (and generally you can't really prevent clouding without just blending in something else to depress the freezing point. Some additives may be able to let frozen molecules pass through filters though). Using an anti gel additive and a heat source at any potential restriction point (the fuel filter and fuel strainer at the fuel tank) should be fine. In fact, Yellowstone has been running a 1995 DOdge truck on B100 without additives year-round since new, in temps down to -30F and below. How? The fuel tank and fuel filter are heated.

 

[goosegunner]

I have been thinking about the B100/ Winter problem for a while because I live in Wisconsin.

I know the Frybrid kits are expensive, but couldn't you just use a 2 tank setup but run bio in it instead of grease?

Maybe they could reduce the temp setting on the heating?

Just a thought, but to go to renewables like Bio, someone is going to have to address the cold weather issues for most of the country.

gg

 

[bobgolf2004]

How about using appropriate blends of petro diesel with biodiesel that are compatible with what will work? I am all for increasing the useage of biodiesel fuel. Quite frankly, I do not see it replacing petro diesel any time soon (as in, can we stop using petro diesel and have enough biodiesel to meet everyone's demand for diesel fuel?) It's a long way off. Until then, I like the idea of using blends, and think this is the way to go.
Why? The way to maximize the benefits for everyone is to maximize its TOTAL use in diesel applications.

 

[BioDiesel]

"I know the Frybrid kits are expensive, but couldn't you just use a 2 tank setup but run bio in it instead of grease?"

Yes an SVO kit would solve the gelling problem.
Frybrid's kit is way overkill. You only need to warm the B100 above 35*F, not to 150*F for an SVO system.

Greasels' system is simpler and cheaper.
The only caveat is encasing your fuel line in colant, and then getting a leak or crack will lead to coolant in your fip and certain fip death.

Avoid copper heaters in the tank, and hose-in-hose systems for this reason.
If possible get Frybrids aluminum in radiator hose, or
a hose-on-hose system and a reliable tank heater.

If enough people are interested, I'll design and sell an appropriate system from B100.

 

[overbite]

Biodiesel,

You are talking about exactly what I have been trying to find and design. I have been trying to figure out how to get a heated tank so I can run higher than B20 in winter. If you have something that is more cost effictive than the SVO/WVO guys I would be very intersted. Let me know if you need help/more interest ect.

Thread jack = By the way - has NU/CL&P started started putting up that monster powerline project from Middletown to Norwalk? Does that run anywhere near you?

 

[nh mike]

Biodiesel, I'm sure you could find many people interested. Some of us over at biodieselnow have been talking about getting heat into the fuel tank for quite a while, we just haven't gotten around to doing anything. There are some coolant-based submersible heaters that could be used (and if you're doing to run a coolant line all the way back, you could also just put in a hose-within-a-hose or other design to heat the fuel lines along the way).

 

[cartog]

I'd like to run B100 year round.

The trick for me (and I'm sure others) is that I don't have access to a plug at work (and random places I may park). This limits the effectiveness of just using a coolant heater that also warms the fuel lines/fuel tank. I would probably need an additional element that would use the battery to keep the fuel lines/filter and some amount of fuel flowing, or ungel them in a short period of time when I'm ready to drive.

But if someone offered a kit for a 2004 Jetta Wagon, I'd be very interested

 

[ikendu]

Just a thought, but to go to renewables like Bio, someone is going to have to address the cold weather issues for most of the country.

gg

I don't believe this will be a barrier. Soy biodiesel will not likely replace more than 5% of our energy for diesel fuel. If we are going above 5% nationally, it will be with bio-diesels from other sources like algae or TDP (Thermal De-Polymenrization) or some other sort of synthetic biodiesel (SunFuel, etc.). With an "engineered" bio-diesel, winter gelling can be worked into the design.

 

[ikendu]

...I do not see it replacing petro diesel any time soon (as in, can we stop using petro diesel and have enough biodiesel to meet everyone's demand for diesel fuel?)

Yup. If we used every last acre of soy beans for biodiesel, we'd only replace about 5% of our diesel fuel on a net basis (because, it does take some energy to make biodiesel). We will need bio-diesel energy from other sources to get off of oil. It is all do-able. We just need to start putting attention on it nationally.

 

[nh mike]

I'd like to run B100 year round.

The trick for me (and I'm sure others) is that I don't have access to a plug at work (and random places I may park). This limits the effectiveness of just using a coolant heater that also warms the fuel lines/fuel tank. I would probably need an additional element that would use the battery to keep the fuel lines/filter and some amount of fuel flowing, or ungel them in a short period of time when I'm ready to drive.

But if someone offered a kit for a 2004 Jetta Wagon, I'd be very interested

As I've said in various threads, I think the way to go will be using additives to prevent gelling (so the fuel remains pumpable, but would be able to clog restrictive points gradually), and heating to gradually warm it up to prevent clogging. Electric heating elements at the filter and fuel tank should work, but it would be more efficient to be able to use coolant based heaters. Perhaps both could be used, with the electric heat shutting off once the coolant has warmed up.

 

[oriley]

I have used Primrose additve from Avlube for a couple of years now. When I called to order some more I asked them if they had anything for Biodiesel yet. I was transferred to George who is very knowledgable about there new product. They have been working on this stuff for several years. He sent me a few fact sheets that I can email to anybody if you'd like.
He told me that they haven't started advertising it yet on there web page. I was persistant on getting some beofre winter really set in here in mile high. He so very nicely sent me a couple of bottles of the 4033, complementary!
I just filled up at the begning of the week, w/ about B30 (mix it in the tank). I have only driving about 40 miles since then, not sure if it's the cooler temps, but the car has more zip for sure! I'd like to do a few tests this weekend w/ putting some B100, B50, and B20 in the freezer once I get a few thermometers.
Here's the web page for you tao take a look.
Again, if you'd like the .pdf fact sheets that he sent me, PM me and I'll send it to you.
Patrick

 

[Dweebus]

Keep us updated on your findings!