Binding when trying to turn crank.

[OkiHero]

I finally got the motor mounted in my golf and went to spin the crank by hand and nothing. It will go backwards but not forward. So I pulled the motor back out thinking I had messed up seating to the TC and attempted again, nothing. I have no idea what I might have done assembling the motor for it to bind. I followed all the torque settings and tightening sequences. Any ideas what could be causing this?

 

[STDOUBT]

What's the history on the engine and what all does rebuilding mean?
Did you refurbish the whole long block top to bottom?
What parts did you change out I guess is a better question.

 

[OkiHero]

The head is brand new from Frank. The block I got from a gentleman in Delaware with Franks help. All the top end gaskets are new. The bottom end was refreshed about 20k ago from a motor with about 135k iirc.

 

[jokila]

So you put the timing belt on and have the crank synced correctly with the cam?

 

[Tdijarhead]

Is the engine still out of the car? Will it turn over by hand before you put the transmission on it?

 

[OkiHero]

So you put the timing belt on and have the crank synced correctly with the cam?

I followed all instructions on the how to so I assume yes.

Is the engine still out of the car? Will it turn over by hand before you put the transmission on it?

It did move before I put it in but I didnt send it through a whole rotation because I didnt have the injectors and related items in. I got that all in yesterday went to go spin it and nothing. After some looking around maybe my IP isnt timed correctly?

 

[PakProtector]

The engine does not care where the IP is, unless this is a BEW where the cam is part of the injection pump. If the cam is not where it belongs, you can easily have interference issues.

I'd suggest removing the glow plugs and trying to roll it over, and while you are at it, confirming the cam is where it is supposed to be when you hit TDC on cylinder No.1( on a BEW, stick in the cam pin, and on an ALH, install the cam lock plate ).
cheers,
Douglas

 

[jokila]

I followed all instructions on the how to so I assume yes.

It did move before I put it in but I didnt send it through a whole rotation because I didnt have the injectors and related items in. I got that all in yesterday went to go spin it and nothing. After some looking around maybe my IP isnt timed correctly?

If you did follow the instructions, at least the one that is from this site, you are supposed to turn the crank over two full rotations (regardless of whether you have injectors on) after tensioning the belt to ensure there is not valve to piston contact and verify the positioning of the cam at TDC. Since you didn't do that, there is no certainty that this is not the problem.

You will need to verify this before moving on to other things. Did you have the transmission bolted to the engine when you had it out to know where TDC is located? You cannot know otherwise.

 

[OkiHero]

The engine does not care where the IP is, unless this is a BEW where the cam is part of the injection pump. If the cam is not where it belongs, you can easily have interference issues.

I'd suggest removing the glow plugs and trying to roll it over, and while you are at it, confirming the cam is where it is supposed to be when you hit TDC on cylinder No.1( on a BEW, stick in the cam pin, and on an ALH, install the cam lock plate ).
cheers,
Douglas

The cam does slot into the IP. It also doesn't have the GPs in.

 

[OkiHero]

If you did follow the instructions, at least the one that is from this site, you are supposed to turn the crank over two full rotations (regardless of whether you have injectors on) after tensioning the belt to ensure there is not valve to piston contact and verify the positioning of the cam at TDC. Since you didn't do that, there is no certainty that this is not the problem.

You will need to verify this before moving on to other things. Did you have the transmission bolted to the engine when you had it out to know where TDC is located? You cannot know otherwise.

So I need to take everything apart again?

 

[jokila]

The cam does slot into the IP. It also doesn't have the GPs in.

That really doesn't make sense. The GPs don't matter at this point. You are not trying to start the car, you are trying to figure out if you have the cam and crank synced.

So I need to take everything apart again?

Not everything.

Since there is binding and the presumption is you have valve/piston contact you are going to need to get everything to where you can put it back together at TDC. If it were me, I would loosen/remove the camshaft enough to have all of the valves close.

1) Loosen the tensioner.
2) Pop sprocket off cam
3) Loosen cam caps enough to let valves close.
4) Rotate engine to TDC, then back off 90 degrees on crank. (counter clockwise)
5) Tighten cam caps down.
6) Get cam at its TDC position with lock plate. You can use some vice grips on the shaft between the lobes to turn it.
7) Rotate crank clockwise to TDC.

Assemble further...

 

[jokila]

And this is instructions for an ALH, not BEW which in your profile says you have.

 

[OkiHero]

But those same rules apply I'm assuming. I guess if I have enough daylight when I get home I'll see if it helps. The lobe closest to the cam sprocket should be in an up position correct?

 

[Vince Waldon]

Not quite: on a BEW there's no TDC mark visible on the flywheel; a specific locking jig is required to set the engine exactly at TDC.

My sig has the full proceedure, tools needed, pictures at every step.

 

[PakProtector]

So
But those same rules apply I'm assuming. I guess if I have enough daylight when I get home I'll see if it helps. The lobe closest to the cam sprocket should be in an up position correct?

So we'll assume you have an ALH. The cam does not connect to the IP except through the belt. The ALH does not even have the tandem pump on the cam like a BEW has. Unfortunately the ALH needs the trans installed to determine where TDC is, unlike the BEW that has markings on the crank sprocket for the timing belt.

So...BEW or ALH?

The cam lobes are separated by a hair over 90 degrees. At cyl No.1 firing the V is away from the tappets, and on 4 it is towards them; one lobe is not directly opposite when they are where they belong. Don't put a vise grip on your injector lobe either...
cheers,
Douglas

 

[OkiHero]

So we'll assume you have an ALH. The cam does not connect to the IP except through the belt. The ALH does not even have the tandem pump on the cam like a BEW has. Unfortunately the ALH needs the trans installed to determine where TDC is, unlike the BEW that has markings on the crank sprocket for the timing belt.

So...BEW or ALH?

The cam lobes are separated by a hair over 90 degrees. At cyl No.1 firing the V is away from the tappets, and on 4 it is towards them; one lobe is not directly opposite when they are where they belong. Don't put a vise grip on your injector lobe either...
cheers,
Douglas

Its a BEW. I thought I mentioned it.

Not quite: on a BEW there's no TDC mark visible on the flywheel; a specific locking jig is required to set the engine exactly at TDC.

My sig has the full proceedure, tools needed, pictures at every step.

I have the metalnerd locking set. I'll re read your step by step and see if I missed something.

 

[oilhammer]

Where is the engine stopping in the stroke? Is it when a piston is at or nearing TDC? I am assuming you put the same thickness headgasket on there as what the lower end had on in previous?

 

[OkiHero]

Where is the engine stopping in the stroke? Is it when a piston is at or nearing TDC? I am assuming you put the same thickness headgasket on there as what the lower end had on in previous?

It's not turning at all. All the gaskets I got from Frank with the head.

 

[Vince Waldon]

If it's seized up solid a good step would be to pull the timing belt off, so that you can narrow it down to the crank or the cam.

That said, for sure did the harmonic damper go back on with the correct length bolts?

 

[jmodge]

Did you clean the ring grooves out in the pistons? If there are deposits left in them the rings will bind in the cylinders

 

[OkiHero]

If it's seized up solid a good step would be to pull the timing belt off, so that you can narrow it down to the crank or the cam.

That said, for sure did the harmonic damper go back on with the correct length bolts?

Yes, they were tagged and bagged.

Did you clean the ring grooves out in the pistons? If there are deposits left in them the rings will bind in the cylinders

I did not I was told it was solid for me to go ahead and build off of.

 

[Vince Waldon]

It was... ring deposits are not likely to suddenly bind up your engine while you're doing a head replacement.

I'd say next step is to narrow it down to crank vs. cam. The cam can bind if the cam saddle shells are not installed in the correct order, for example.

 

[jmodge]

I reread this and it appears you could turn it by hand with injectors and glow plugs out? Fairly Easily? If so, not rings. I don’t imagine you can turn it by hand against compression any way. Have you pulled your injectors to see if it turns while connected to the trans without compression stopping you?

 

[jmodge]

It was... ring deposits are not likely to suddenly bind up your engine while you're doing a head replacement.

I'd say next step is to narrow it down to crank vs. cam. The cam can bind if the cam saddle shells are not installed in the correct order, for example.

I assumed he rebuilt the engine because he stated he got a block from someone. Maybe an assembled, used long block then

 

[Vince Waldon]

Good point... not clear if the bottom end for sure rotated before adding the head. I read "bottom end refreshed 20K ago" to suggest it was probably in OK shape.

 

[jokila]

I finally got the motor mounted in my golf and went to spin the crank by hand and nothing. It will go backwards but not forward. So I pulled the motor back out thinking I had messed up seating to the TC and attempted again, nothing. I have no idea what I might have done assembling the motor for it to bind. I followed all the torque settings and tightening sequences. Any ideas what could be causing this?

Then you say:

It's not turning at all. All the gaskets I got from Frank with the head.

Your comments are confusing. It sounds like the whole engine is seized.

Clear this up before people get confused with other aspects of your situation. Thanks for finally clearing up which engine you have.

 

[BobnOH]

Here's my dumb question, how long is your lever?

 

[OkiHero]

It was... ring deposits are not likely to suddenly bind up your engine while you're doing a head replacement.

I'd say next step is to narrow it down to crank vs. cam. The cam can bind if the cam saddle shells are not installed in the correct order, for example.

This will probably be next. I hope I didn't open the valve while putting the cam bolt in.

Then you say:


Your comments are confusing. It sounds like the whole engine is seized.

Clear this up before people get confused with other aspects of your situation. Thanks for finally clearing up which engine you have.

The crank WILL spin backwards but it WILL NOT spin forwards. If I were to spin the crank backwards it moves easily, I will be able to spin it back to the same amount forwards but thats it.

Here's my dumb question, how long is your lever?

A normal 2 foot snap on 3/8 with a 1/2 in adapter and a 2ft 1/2 in extension bar.

 

[OkiHero]

I reread this and it appears you could turn it by hand with injectors and glow plugs out? Fairly Easily? If so, not rings. I don’t imagine you can turn it by hand against compression any way. Have you pulled your injectors to see if it turns while connected to the trans without compression stopping you?

This I havent done. I was under the impression that everything had to be together before I could spin it. Had I know I could have tested it throughout the process I would have.

 

[Mozambiquer]

The crank WILL spin backwards but it WILL NOT spin forwards. If I were to spin the crank backwards it moves easily, I will be able to spin it back to the same amount forwards but thats it.

So, if I understand correctly, it will currently turn backwards, and then will turn forwards the same amount of revolutions. Will it turn backwards for a whole revolution or more?