Big Build - am I missing something

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
I have decided on my project and to go for a 'Big one'. Couldn't allow perfectly good parts to go to a waste so decided to add some more 'good parts' and, hopefully, end up with a nice build.
Here is the list:

Stock block with honed bores to 80mm dia.
Oversized PD150 pistons (80mm)
Rosten Connecting rods,
New 'high flow' head with Colt, stage 2 cam
Kerma K3 hybrid turbo (1856)
Eurojet FMIC (2" piping)
PD130 Intake pipe with PD150 intake manifold along with 'Race pipe'
Race 520 injectors or PP764 stage 2 (TBD)
2.5" or 3" exhaust with high flow cat
6 speed transmission (ERF) with VR6 Axles.
Clutch - TBD
11mm pump with the lift pump.

I hope to push over 200hp and have this ready for TDI fest.
Any other suggestions?
This is supposed to be a daily driver (Two Door Golf MY2000).
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
If you are going through that much trouble, put a big turbo on it (2260)...

I'd also stick with the R520's (Proven to make big power, over and over)

Do the standard O2J VR6/1.8T axles fit the 6spd? If so, sweet!

I'd also add a fuel cooler to the mix and get rid of the Thermostatic T that dumps hot fuel back into the filter (Run a '98 Beetle fuel filter, no T)

(Add a PD150 oil cooler to the mix as well)
 
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diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
Good catch on fuel cooler. I have it somewhere from AT car. Yes, I do have the VR6 axles. Thanks.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I was asking if the VR6 O2J axles will fit the ERF tranny. I assumed the 5spd/6spd axles weren't interchangable.
 

darkhorse

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Nov 21, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
'06 Golf GLS, '01 Dodge/Cummins
A 2260 with installation kit from Darkside runs about $3100 USD. It is surely the way forward with big power but the K3 is easily capable of 200+ hp of a grand less.
 

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
My bad on VR6 axles. They are beffier axles from 6 spd transmission, but not the VR6 kind. I got together with the transmission and just assumed. You know what happened when ones assumes ...
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
A 2260 with installation kit from Darkside runs about $3100 USD. It is surely the way forward with big power but the K3 is easily capable of 200+ hp of a grand less.
Whitbread's kit utilizing the AFN or BHW manifold is planned to end up ~$1900 with downpipe.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
A 2260 with installation kit from Darkside runs about $3100 USD. It is surely the way forward with big power but the K3 is easily capable of 200+ hp of a grand less.
Sure, but you aren't going to be making much over 200whp with a 1856. The 2260 flows so much better, it's a no brainer.

If he's going through all that trouble of opening up the engine and beefing up the bottom end he should at least make use of it.. A 1856 is not going to come close to limiting out that motor.
 

shortysclimbin

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Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
I would say high lift cam, head work, oversized valves, dual springs, and the machining work to go with it. Past that don't forget the lsd all that torque is going to need to be put down somehow.
 

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
Sure, but you aren't going to be making much over 200whp with a 1856. The 2260 flows so much better, it's a no brainer.

If he's going through all that trouble of opening up the engine and beefing up the bottom end he should at least make use of it.. A 1856 is not going to come close to limiting out that motor.
You are probably correct on the limits of the motor and turbo size. My limiting factor at this point was the funds, plus I like to go to the 'single' source of my upgrade to ensure good support. I, already have a Kerma tune support, so that was another factor on this one. Just over 200hp is enough at this point. I think I'll save 2260 for my (PD) Jetta later.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
All of those upgrades aren't necessary for just over 200 IMO. A GTB1756VK would work real nicely too. The AFN/BHW GTB combo would work quite nicely in your situation, it would just take custom IC piping and a downpipe.
Heck, you could do 200whp with that VNT17 and all those mods.
 
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LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
You are probably correct on the limits of the motor and turbo size. My limiting factor at this point was the funds, plus I like to go to the 'single' source of my upgrade to ensure good support. I, already have a Kerma tune support, so that was another factor on this one. Just over 200hp is enough at this point. I think I'll save 2260 for my (PD) Jetta later.
If 200hp is enough, don't waste your $$$$ on rods... The stock bottom end will hold that without issue.
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
personally if i was doing an engine build, id try to go with the whitbread BHW manifold and gtb1756 kit

for $2000 you wouldnt be spending alot more than a new 1722 and DP... (maybe $300?)

that setup would be alot more suitable for anything over 200hp than a 1722...

edit
gtb1756 would still outrank a 1856
 

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
I guess this is the beauty of this forum. Trying different solutions and sharing the results. We'll see once we are done and if we are satisfied. There is always a possibility of taking these components and upgrading another vehicle. I am very involved in working on other peoples cars as well.
One of the paramount factor is to have a reliable vehicle. I figured out that this set up should produce very reliable 200+hp and give a base for further upgrades (if so desired).
 

raydeee

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Location
Toronto,Hamilton,St.Catharines,
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI,2009 Jetta TDI
I personally feel if he is doing over 200 you should strengthen the bottom end as i went through 2 of them ,190 whp and 216 whp ,cracked piston and broken connecting rod.You have the right setup for strength on your build list.If you dont mind a bit of lag go with the 2260 vk you will be well on your way with over 250 whp.If you spend more time in the city 1722 or 1856 would do you well.You will have to decide with your driving habits......

PS.i'm putting in my build this week which is very similar to your setup.
 
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Joe TDI

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Aug 1, 2007
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Neversink, NY
TDI
03, 00, 04 MK4 sedans.... 02 MK4 Wagon
If you are going to do the whole motor, go for one of the GTB turbo's.... no sense having a motor that can hold 600 ft/lbs with a small turbo that can only give you 350 ft/lbs at best.

If you have all that $$$ to spend, go big... go for 240hp! gtb2260vk!

If you want to save your pennies:
-1856
-upgraded rods
-airflow mods - bigger airbox (vr6/r32) bigger intake pipe (OMI or PD150TIP), bigger intercooling pipes, better intercooler, bigger intake manifold (PD150 or 130)
- PP764's (Race520's could be too smokey)
-lift pump
-11mm
-good custom tune

You should run roughly 200whp/320ft. lbs with reliability.
 

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
That was my line of thinking. I just didn't consider bigger air box. Will have to look into it. Thanks. Does anyone have an extra one?

If you are going to do the whole motor, go for one of the GTB turbo's.... no sense having a motor that can hold 600 ft/lbs with a small turbo that can only give you 350 ft/lbs at best.

If you have all that $$$ to spend, go big... go for 240hp! gtb2260vk!

If you want to save your pennies:
-1856
-upgraded rods
-airflow mods - bigger airbox (vr6/r32) bigger intake pipe (OMI or PD150TIP), bigger intercooling pipes, better intercooler, bigger intake manifold (PD150 or 130)
- PP764's (Race520's could be too smokey)
-lift pump
-11mm
-good custom tune

You should run roughly 200whp/320ft. lbs with reliability.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Run a MAP based smoke limiter and get rid of the MAF all together.. Then you can whip up a simple CAI with cone filter and attach that directly to your PD130/150 TIP..
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
That was my line of thinking. I just didn't consider bigger air box. Will have to look into it. Thanks. Does anyone have an extra one?
Put a restriction meter on the box, you won't need anything larger...it's already larger than the V6 Bluetec air box that is now putting out 260hp...filter changes on that system are 60,000 miles or 4 years and is monitored by a solid state restriction meter by the ECU (20 hPa is the trigger for a replacement).

Your air box can provide unrestricted flow for an engine 3 times the size of yours, its not worth messing with.
 

diesel4ever

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Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
Put a restriction meter on the box, you won't need anything larger...it's already larger than the V6 Bluetec air box that is now putting out 260hp...filter changes on that system are 60,000 miles or 4 years and is monitored by a solid state restriction meter by the ECU (20 hPa is the trigger for a replacement).

Your air box can provide unrestricted flow for an engine 3 times the size of yours, its not worth messing with.
I keep forgetting how much oversized is that filter housing. I suppose they need larger box for naturally aspirated engines. Well, this will save me some $$$.
 

kiva822

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
'03 Wagon, '03 Golf
if he goes 2260, etc., is he now into the land of girdles, modifying the oil pump, etc.?
 

diesel4ever

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Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
if he goes 2260, etc., is he now into the land of girdles, modifying the oil pump, etc.?
That was one of the reasons I didn't want to go that far. This car is going to my son who is getting married the next year. He continue modding if he feels like it.
Got the PD150 pistons and Rosten con. rods yesterday. I checked them on my Zeiss CMM and everything checks good. Amazing fittings (generally within 0.010mm). The piston size is first oversize (+0.25mm). I was told that they were not available in that size and that I would have to go with +0.50mm. This was my preference, anyway, so a good start, so far.
 

diesel4ever

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Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
Well, it's done. There are some loose ends, but this thing is fast enough for me.
It will spin the wheels in the second driving straight up w/o slipping the clutch. I'd love to put it on dyno, but I don't know if there is one in Windsor. ON area.
 

mk1-83

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Location
Holland
TDI
LUPO 1.9 tdi 300+ hp
@ joe tdi

way pp764 ? I'm have a 11mm and race520 also maxed out at 2.0 IQ a light haze at wot.
 

GT TDI Golf

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Location
Birmingham/Auburn, AL
TDI
2001 Golf TDI
You've pretty much done what I'm trying to do with my 2dr. I've got the 6spd sitting in the garage along with a Passenger Performance dp and a PD150 manifold and EGR. 1856 and Eurojet FMIC have been installed for several years. I'm leaving the long block stock. Just need to find an 11mm pump and buy some R520's (PP502's in there now) Need to exchange my stg 3 cam for a stg 2 as well. Glad to hear you're happy with it!
 
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