BHW TDI with 02m->02d syncro->0a5 4motion swap into Eurovan

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
This is a copy of the post I made on the UK t4 forums, pardon some of the questions...





I am in the process of planning for a swap into a 2002 Eurovan that I picked up for quite a deal with a slipping transmission and 176k miles. Because of the "lifetime ATF" from VW the previous owner never changed the ATF until it started acting a little funky about a year ago :eek:. Sheesh. Shortly after getting it home I replaced the valve body in the 01p but id didn't make a difference, so my guess is the whole transmission will need to be rebuilt/replaced at a tune of $2-5k. Yuck. I'd rather have a manual diesel drivetrain anyways which prompted this idea. I like the 02m because it's a little more beefy than the 02j, the 02b and 02g gearboxes that are clocked appropriately for the eurovan are only 5 speeds and to find a syncro one is quite difficult and expensive in europe. Plus I like 6 speeds, just a weird fascination of mine. An 02j with a slightly taller 5th would work as well, I'm just worried about the jump from 4th to 5th with the weight of a loaded eurovan and having to downshift on most hills.

I know the ALH motor well as it was in my 99.5 Jetta that I pushed to 350k miles and at one point swapped from the 5 speed 02j to a 6 speed 02m gearbox from the UK from RyanP. My idea is for a mild build on the motor with 150 or so bhp and 250-300 torque. My problem is all of the van gearboxes from that era are 5 speed, and geared quite low. The 2.5tdi came with a syncro transfer box and a 5 speed as well, but to find one of those gearboxes is quite like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack, but the stack is the size of a football stadium. Plus bolting a 4 cylinder to a 5 cylinder transmission is difficult. They are quite unobtanium here, and when we find them they end up being $2-4k plus shipping and then all the associated parts are difficult to source as they have to all come from overseas or eBay.de. Shipping a 2.5tdi from the UK would be the easiest and logical option, however because of the EPA and California emissions folks here I wouldn't be able to register and drive it on road. Well, not easily or cheaply.

Side bar: With the above HP/Tq figures, would a VR6 240mm SMF and a g60 clutch hold? I've just finished reading the Audi TT->TDI swap and don't want to go through the southbend clutch fiasco that he went through.

To match with the 1.9L TDI, I'd like to get one of the 02m gearboxes that mate to a 4 cylinder VAG motor and I'm going to have to play with the gear ratios a bit, but I've been researching quite a bit on the Vortex and I think I've been able to figure out the ratios I want to use coupled with the larger tires for the eurovan. My issue stems from the current Quattro boxes available to me here in the states are in the Audi TT cars or in a few of the VW cars such as GLI or R32, but the R32 boxes have bellhousings set up for a VR6 motor that won't fit a 4 cylinder. The euro diesel 4motion boxes are geared such that in the car I was going 70 right around 2000 rpms, which was fine for the smaller Jetta, but with the larger tires of the van 65-70 would put you closer to 1800rpms or less. While this is in the optimum torque range, I have concern that with a heavier, bigger, less aerodynamic van, and especially with the syncro hooked up this will require frequent downshifts on the interstates and hills or for passing, which will be annoying. I've got graphs of probably 5-6 different gearboxes with different tire sizes, comparing each other to both the 02j 5 speed and 02m 6 speed I had in the jetta, and I should probably add what the 02b/g gearboxes look like as well to give something nice to match up to.

I think what I'm going to end up doing is to get a gearbox from an Audi TT 225 with a 1.8T motor and the quattro set up and as I'll have the box apart to put in a front LSD (I'm thinking Wavetrac over Peloquin/Quaiffe for offroad travel... I'd love to discuss more with anyone who has actual experience with them) I was contemplating swapping in a diesel ring/pinion set. Unfortunately for the 02m this means two pinion gears that are matched to the ring gear as it's a three shaft gearbox, but such is life. The best fit I found and could live with was from a Sharan, but the guys at Dutch autoparts didn't seem to think a Sharan FD would fit in the box. I seemed to have found Sharan FD ratios for the 02m, but maybe they have a slightly larger bellhousing? I will be able to live with the slightly higher RPMs of the TT box by fitting larger tires though. The graph below shows an 02m with mk4 sized tires in blue, an 02j 5th with mk4 tires in yellow, then in red the TT box in 6th with 225/60-16s, looks like from the UK guys this is the biggest size that will fit on the van. Would put me about 100rpms over where the 02j sits in top gear. I don't mind the extra shifting, and I like the idea of a closer ratio gearbox in a heavy van and if we do any off roading it would be nice to keep it close. The green is a TT box with the Sharan FD of 79/22/27 for the ring/pinion1/pinion2, this give 1-4 FD of 3.591 and 5-6/R FD of 2.926. The green graph is with the stock size eurovan tires, with the larger tires I was looking at the rpms would be about 75-100 rpms lower I think. If anyone has any info on whether this will fit in an Audi 02m gearbox, let me know. Awfully custom with the swapping of gears, but I think it would make it worthwhile. Maybe down the road for sure. It would definitely help the mileage on the long drives.



From what I can find, the transfer box that bolts to the gearbox is a 17/27 ratio, out to the propshaft, into the rear diff and gets converted back with a 27/17 ratio to keep the wheels at the same speeds. I think I want/need a viscous coupler, but I haven't found much info on them for the T4s. Also, I think in the UK the 2.5TDI transporters could come with a locking rear differential, if anyone has one or a lead for one let me know so I can pick it up. Also, is there somewhere I can find the correct length of the propshafts so that I can have some made up, or attempt to piece this together myself with euro parts? Would a Tiguan rear diff and Haldex setup work in a eurovan?


My parts list (a work in progress):

motor - can source locally - I know the mounting angles are different, I'm already working on an adapter plate for motor/gearbox in the van. See below. Apparently Frans is also planning on a setup. I'm waiting (im)patiently.
Motor mounts, dogbone - custom
CV axles for the passenger side from transfer box to wheel - likely custom?
T4 oil pan and oil pickup tube to fit the new motor angle. See above. ABL 1.9TD stuff should bolt up and would work, right? Will also need to drill a new dipstick tube.
Turbo Downpipe - Do you guys know of anyone that makes a syncro/quattro/4motion downpipe that would work with the transfer box and rear driveshaft in the way?
TT quattro gearbox from 225 1.8T with LSD - can source locally
transfer box - locally
propshaft - ?
viscous coupler - ?
rear differential plus carrier +/- Haldex controller (?) - Can I use one from a Tiguan or an R32 and pick this up in the US? I can't seem to find much info on actual ratios in the rear differentials.
rear subframe, swing arms/control arms, CV axles, hubs, brakes
Lots of wiring


In all likelyhood I'm just going to be sourcing the gearbox first and doing the rear bits/syncro stuff at a later date once the van is back on the road and operational.

I think the motor/gearbox adapter plate that will allow me to clock the Jetta mounting position roughly 40-50* forward to fit the eurovan is my sticky point at the moment (Ideally 45ish degrees?). From what I've found the ALH motors are 15-20* back towards the firewall in the G/J/NB and are about 25-27* forward towards the radiator in the Eurovans. I've found drawings for an industrial ALH TDI, but can't seem to find proper gearbox measurements for the normal ALH motor as it's mounted in the Jetta/Golf/New Beetle.

Having these drawings I could come up with something in CAD that would allow me to simply rotate the mounting position around the appropriate distance and build it on a 1/2"-5/8" spacer to be able to keep the 02m properly positioned for the transfer box output. Probably would need a flywheel spacer to match and use longer bolts I think, at least to start with. I could take this to any machine shop and have them mill it out for me on the CNC machine, as well as come up with a flywheel spacer to fit the adapter plate. I've been trading emails with one of the members here that's done a few of the swaps to other nonfamily vehicles, but I haven't heard back after he was going to speak with his machinist. Probably busy, but not sure. Any help on this is appreciated as well. Drawings and/or measurements would suffice, I've searched a lot and only been able to find a few drawings that aren't laid out or notated well. The hard part is the dowel position related to crank centerline, if these are off even a few thousandths it'll cause premature wear of the input bushing/bearing, wobble, and clutch destruction. If I've got the drawings I don't mind to alter as needed for what I want to do, just need an actual ALH bellhousing pattern with the lower oil pan bolts as well.

Here is the link for the engine side bellhousing pattern http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/tdi_engine_cad_drawing_small.pdf . I've also found the crank/flywheel bolt pattern as well.

Thanks!

Ryan
 
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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
 

GTiTDi

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Location
3 Spruce st Wareham, gateway to Cape Cod Massachus
TDI
'91 GTI CJAA swap,'02 Jetta wagon ALH swap, '03 GTI 1.8T rally car, '03 Sprinter 3500
was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
Hey now this is an interesting idea....Especially since I have a Eurovan, a pile of TDI engines, and an 02M from a 1.8T GLI :D...Thinking BHW in my van though...
 

MrDave

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Location
1300 km NW of nowhere
Wow. Ambitious.

Keep in mind that with the 4-mo transmission, you want the output of the angle drive to be horizontal, so you don't want to rotate the transmission. If you go with a spacer/rotation plate between the engine and trans it should be very easy to accomplish that.

Don't discount the TT180q 5spd 02m transmission.
It's essentially a DRW gearset with short diff ratios, and missing 6th, but 6th is pretty easy to put back in. (hint: DRW 6th gear) Only one gear, not a gearset. The other 1/2 of the set is already in the trans.

There is a viscous coupler version for the 17/27 rear diff, I think it was on the european version of your van.

Don't forget to look at the HPA module to control the rear diff if you go full Haldex.
Your 2002 Eurovan probably has the supporting electronics to make the haldex work w/o the HPA module.

-Dave
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Wow. Ambitious.

Keep in mind that with the 4-mo transmission, you want the output of the angle drive to be horizontal, so you don't want to rotate the transmission. If you go with a spacer/rotation plate between the engine and trans it should be very easy to accomplish that.

Don't discount the TT180q 5spd 02m transmission.
It's essentially a DRW gearset with short diff ratios, and missing 6th, but 6th is pretty easy to put back in. (hint: DRW 6th gear) Only one gear, not a gearset. The other 1/2 of the set is already in the trans.

There is a viscous coupler version for the 17/27 rear diff, I think it was on the european version of your van.

Don't forget to look at the HPA module to control the rear diff if you go full Haldex.
Your 2002 Eurovan probably has the supporting electronics to make the haldex work w/o the HPA module.

-Dave
It is a bit ambitious, but I've been out of sorts for the past two years without a TDI in my life. I got a truck wanting to eventually swap in a different motor, but because its a 2009 with all the electronic mess it would be pretty difficult. So now I'm back to what I know, the early 2000s, ALH motors, and the MK4 body style. I'm definitely planning on keeping the gearbox in a stock mounting location/angle to use the angle drive output and to keep the CV axles at a normal angle. I'm working on an adapter plate to clock to motor to fit the Eurovan, but it also means custom motor and gearbox mounts, as well as likely notching the oil pan, adjusting the oil pickup tube, and figuring out a mount/brace for the far side of the angle drive against the block to keep it from moving. I found a few posts on the UK T4 forums where this guy did a PD130 with 02m swap

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=780001

And this guy did a 1.8T with 02m 4motion gearbox swap, but neither of them rotated the gearbox to the correct orientation. Neither seem to be having problems, so that's nice at least. This guy also managed to find the passenger/right side CV axle from an Audi S3 that was the same length, or close enough to fit the van, which is super nice to know.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=371766

Shows that it can be done.

I've thought about the 5 speed Audi TT 180 02m, but from what I understand it's not a quattro. Would work if you just wanted a FWD van, but I figure that if this is going to be done I'll do it right the first time. There are a few of the 225 TTq 02ms near me, and I think I've found my donor TDI. Time to start taking things apart :).

Hey now this is an interesting idea....Especially since I have a Eurovan, a pile of TDI engines, and an 02M from a 1.8T GLI :D...Thinking BHW in my van though...
Right?!

was going to do the same thing on a EV camper over a year ago... as you surmised, using the passenger car diesel trans in the EV will be geared too tall... I had planned on using 02M from a stateside 1.8t mkiv and adapting it via one of EVguy's adapter plates that is clockable to any position using a 360* pilot/spigot mount ... he will have to make a custom one for you that adapts four-cylinder to four-cylinder, but I was messaging him back-and-forth about the possibility and he said it wouldn't be a problem
The stock sized tires will be running RPMs a little higher that I'd prefer, but to get the van moving and get the kinks ironed out for this winter I don't mind that. Also, adjusting FD ratios will be a possibility when I'm in there to toss in a limited slip diff, likely a wavetrac. Glad to see I'm not the only one that's considered this, I may just be the only one crazy enough to go for it so far.

I spoke with EVGuy through email a few weeks ago, I'm sure he got busy and I haven't heard back from him in a bit. I need to get back in touch. His mount spaces the motor 1-2" out from the gearbox which is fine, but that means you have to use quite a large spacer for the flywheel to make sure the clutch and starter engage properly. Not ideal, but it might be the easiest option to start with.
 

iwannajettatdi

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Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Archemitis - yes, that's the idea. Just for ease of replacement and or spares. It's going to be a little more work for me at the beginning just because it's not been done this way before. But once things get measured out and are made so that they can be repeatable I think it will be come easier in the future. I've seen that box on ebay a few times, but it's an 02D 5 speed, plus its $4,000 minus shipping! I'm hoping that I have less than that in my swap in TOTAL parts wise to get it going. The rear diff and drive shafts are gonna be a little more difficult to source and I can't decide if I want to stick with easy and go with a viscous coupler or if I want to go to Haldex for better control with a standalone controller. I found a guy on Vortex that can flash the stock Haldex controller to make it work better, and it's cheaper than one of the HPA units.

Decisions, decisions. Time to get to wrenching.


PS, after looking at that 02D box on ebay again, I'm not sure if the 4 cylinder motors will bolt up to the bellhousing since it's made for a 2.4 or 2.5 5 cylinder motor. I think the 5 and 6s are the same, but the 4s are different. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

EuroTuning

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Location
Czech Republic
TDI
2,0TDI
6 speed transmissions for VW, new 6 speed gearbox for VW T4 2.5 TDI

It is the only way how to substantially reduce engine noise and fuel consumption – therefore the investment will pay off – partially or entirely.
The highest savings will be achieved by those owners of VW vehicles who are used to fast speed and will be able to use the 6th gear after the upgrade.

For example, at the speed of about 160 km/h, the consumption is reduced by up to 1.5 - 2l fuel after engaging the 6th gear. Our part kit is an ideal solution for the owners of VW vehicles with series production engines 1.9 TDi, 1.8T, VR6 etc.

A big customer group for us are the owners of the vehicles VW Transporter T4. The ratio of the gears in the gearboxes of VW T4 is very short in the series production to enable the vehicle to carry a load of up to 1000 kg; however, many owners buy this vehicle because of its big interior and not to transport big loads.

When operated at the 5th speed, the engines VWT4 achieve more than 3000 rpm already at a speed of 100 km/h.

We offer for VW T4, VW T4 syncro :

1) 6 speed coversion of 02B, 02D (MQ 250 Nm)gearboxes The upgrade of the gearbox 02A, 02B, 02D and costs 1300,- USD

2) EuroTuning offers the only in the world! 6 speed gearbox 02G
02G is the gearbox (MQ 300 Nm)the VW T4 models are equipped with - with the 2.5 TDI 75kW, 111 kW engines.The gearbox 02G will have to be sent to the Czech Republic to upgrade it (this was agreed upon with TNT). After approx. 14 work days, we return the 6 speed version with 2200,- USD being the price for the upgrade.

3) the permanent transmissions 6:1 for VW T4 syncro, for the gearbox 02G, the parts will cost 3400,- USD

4) 100% locking front differential for VW T4 syncro, price 2250,- USD

5) protection against water ingress for Transmissions and Clutch, set 135,- USD

Best regards, dipl. ing. Jakub Kalivoda, EuroTuning, Czech Republic







 
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iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
6 speed transmissions for VW, new 6 speed gearbox for VW T4 2.5 TDI

It is the only way how to substantially reduce engine noise and fuel consumption – therefore the investment will pay off – partially or entirely.
The highest savings will be achieved by those owners of VW vehicles who are used to fast speed and will be able to use the 6th gear after the upgrade.

For example, at the speed of about 160 km/h, the consumption is reduced by up to 1.5 - 2l fuel after engaging the 6th gear. Our part kit is an ideal solution for the owners of VW vehicles with series production engines 1.9 TDi, 1.8T, VR6 etc.

A big customer group for us are the owners of the vehicles VW Transporter T4. The ratio of the gears in the gearboxes of VW T4 is very short in the series production to enable the vehicle to carry a load of up to 1000 kg; however, many owners buy this vehicle because of its big interior and not to transport big loads.

When operated at the 5th speed, the engines VWT4 achieve more than 3000 rpm already at a speed of 100 km/h.

We offer for VW T4, VW T4 syncro :

1) 6 speed coversion of 02B, 02D (MQ 250 Nm)gearboxes The upgrade of the gearbox 02A, 02B, 02D and costs 1300,- USD

2) EuroTuning offers the only in the world! 6 speed gearbox 02G
02G is the gearbox (MQ 300 Nm)the VW T4 models are equipped with - with the 2.5 TDI 75kW, 111 kW engines.The gearbox 02G will have to be sent to the Czech Republic to upgrade it (this was agreed upon with TNT). After approx. 14 work days, we return the 6 speed version with 2200,- USD being the price for the upgrade.

3) the permanent transmissions 6:1 for VW T4 syncro, for the gearbox 02G, the parts will cost 3400,- USD

4) 100% locking front differential for VW T4 syncro, price 2250,- USD

5) protection against water ingress for Transmissions and Clutch, set 135,- USD

Best regards, dipl. ing. Jakub Kalivoda, EuroTuning, Czech Republic







Hmm, this is interesting. If I had access or was able to use a 2.5L TDI, this would be quite nice. The only thing I would worry about being so far away is that if anything broke, getting parts would be a complete pain. Unfortunately, until Frans at Dutch Autoparts gets his 02g adapter for 4 cylinders made this isn't quite an option for us here in the states, yet.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Another long post.. sorry for that. TL:DR - using a BHW motor, likely a euro 6 speed from a T5, need advice on some motor issues.

I made a break in the motor hunt, I found a family owned 2004 B5.5 Passat with the 2.0L TDI and a bum transmission and was able to pick up the whole car for $1500. This gives me access to all of the wiring and electronics I'll hopefully need. I've got all of the wiring from the front seats forward out and I'll need to still go through the and weed out the unneeded wiring. The motor ran well and didn't smoke, plus the ABS controller on the Passat has ESP, ASR and EDL. I found a few swaps on the Passatworld forums to swap ESP modules, and I'll be swapping the ABS controller from the Passat to the van to make the ECU happy and keep ABS. Plus I'll be attempting to keep the cruise control. All of this is theoretical, but I'm hopeful. I've already swapped the balance shaft module for an ALH oil pump and updated the timing belt since it was out of the car. I know the longitudinal orientation is different than the vans, but I have an accessory bracket from a BEW motor so the AC compressor will be on the front of the motor.

I'd like to get a different compressor housing so the output to the intercooler points in a different direction, the VNT-17s for the ALH motors have the output of the compressor pointing straight up which would be much easier to figure out the intercooler piping. In the newer vans the output is right under the intake and points in the same direction, but that's on the newer 2.0 CR motors and I dont think the exhaust ports will line up right and the turbo is part of the exhaust manifold. Too complicated. Can I clock my VNT 17 to put the output of the compressor in a better location? Right now it's going to point straight down towards the axle. Also, is there a way to move the turbo more towards the back of the motor and the gearbox? This would locate it closer to the centerline and in the hump of the firewall. Is it a turbo issue or a manifold issue? Is there a VNT-17 that has the compressor on the driver's side of the motor? Or is there a way to flip the turbo over? My suspicion is that by doing this it will mess up the intake and oil return, but can this be overcome? Either way I'll be using one of the adapters to use a regular 2" hose out to my intercooler.

I've been doing a lot of research and CAD drawing over the past few months, trying to find out if I can get the 02m to work with the van and still keep the syncro transfer box pointed towards the rear. Unfortunately to make it work with the larger transfer box on the 02m quattro gearboxes I'd have to rotate the motor about 40* from vertical, towards the radiator. In comparison the normal mounting angle for the 4 cylinders is 27* and for the 5 cylinder and VR6 motors is 34*. My concern with doing this is that the oil cooler, fuel filter and alternator are going to hit the radiator, and now that I have the vr6 out of the van and have offered the TDI/02m combo up a few ways I'm worried that the turbo is going to hit the firewall at that angle. I'm still fiddling with it to try and make it work but I have some other ideas. The auto VR6 axles are also a different size, more on that below.

First option is just to get an 02m from a GTI/front wheel drive car without the transfer case, but then I'll still have to get some sort of trumpet/axle extension or a much longer offside axle (my passenger side, the right side of the van when sitting in it) which will likely introduce a bit of torque steer like in my old MK4 Jetta. I'm hoping to avoid this if possible. This solves the issue of extra engine rotation, I'll be able to keep it at 27* like the stock motors, however I'll still have to make/have made an adapter plate and a flywheel spacer. Less than ideal, but if anyone is interested I have multiple drawings with dimensions that I can share of the adapter plates and angles.

Second idea is just to get a box from a T4 eurovan, gearbox mounts will match up and should fit like a glove. I'm going to have to switch my axles for this (for the first idea too) because apparently the VR6 came with 112mm inner CV joints/gearbox flanges (who knew?) I thought the 108mm was the biggest there was. So to use what I've got I'm going to have to swap to manual axles anyways with the 108mm inner CV joints. I was able to find what I need here online, but I'm not sure if I want to spend money on this if I'm not going forward with this idea. The biggest problem with the T4 boxes for me is the super low gearing of all of the T4 manual boxes and the higher highway RPMs that they have. Most of them sit around 3000rpms at 65-70mph. I'd like to be around 2000-2200 RPMs at 70-75. I'd settle for 2400. I'm also concerned the higher torque numbers I'll have with the 2.0 PD motor will likely break the box, should be between 3-400 lb/ft of torque. Frans from Dutch Auto Parts is working on an adapter for the 02g gearbox which holds higher torque, but I'd like to have something a little newer and not having to use a spacer for the flywheel would be something I'd like to avoid if possible. We are planning on taking some long road trips around the country, to Mexico and Canada in the van, so newer parts would give my us a little more peace of mind.

Third idea, and what I'm trying to go for now, is to get a box from a T5. I think for ease of install I'm just going to get a 2wd box until I can get things up and running, put the 4motion swap on hold for now. The T5 boxes have the same 4 cylinder bellhousing pattern and based on looking at the pictures the mounting angle is pretty damn close to the T4s, close enough that it should work. I've been told that the gearbox input shaft is larger than the 02m, but I haven't been able to confirm that. If anyone has or can take measurements for me of the shaft size and the spline count that would be helpful. The reason I'm wondering is I have an uprated 240mm clutch, pressure plate and flywheel from Southbend for the 02m gearbox, and if I could use the setup for the 0a5 gearbox I'd like to so I don't have to buy more parts. I was told by the Darkside Development guys that I could just get a clutch disc with a larger input, but other options are appreciated. At least the two gearboxes use the same size clutch. The one I have is rated up to 395 lb/ft, so should be plenty stout for what I'm planning. Right now have the VNT17 turbo, will have FMIC and will also have likely a stage 2 chip. This coupled with the ESP/ASR/EDL ABS swap over from the Passat that I'm planning should keep things interesting.

There are two gearboxes offered for the 4 cylinder motors/TDIs, the 5-speed 02z and the 6-speed 0a5 gearboxes from the updated, facelift T5.1s. The 0a5 that comes with the newer facelift T5.1 140bhp and 180bhp motors will hold higher torque so that is likely what I'll be looking for. The gear ratios will match up better I think since they are built for a TDI, however the 6 speed is geared a little longer than I had hoped, but this makes it great for autobahn touring (not as great on US roadways.) This will mean that I'll likely have to either cruise in 5th or have some gear changes on the bigger hills. But it will lower RPMs and noise quite drastically compared to the T4 box. The two TDI codes I'm looking at are the KUP and PAP ratios. Based on the article here the ratios of the 140 and 180bhp motors are:

140bhp
i Gang 1. / 2. / 3. / 4. / 5./ 6. / R. - Gang
3,92 / 2,05 / 1,70 / 1,09 / 0,82 / 0,68 / 4,95

180bhp
3,92 / 2,05 / 1,75 / 1,16 / 0,86 / 0,73 / 4,95

Also, interestingly the article states the motors are tilted forward at only 8*. Not sure what this will mean for mounting, or CV angles. If nothing else this may mean I only have to tip things forwards a few degrees, vs. 40+ degrees. I'll still have to adjust the oil pickup tube, but I have a T5 oil sump on the way from Europe that will fit much better than the BHW Passat one.

The newer gearboxes have a different attachment, instead of flanges they now use stub shafts. The axles are splined and fit over the stub shafts. The problem with these axles is the length on the T5 axles seems to be a little longer than the T4, so I'll likely have to take them to an axle shop to have them shortened appropriately. Another thought is to swap the inner CV joints of the T5 axles onto the T4 shafts. Any idea if the inner splines and star pieces inside the CV joint will be the same? Or better yet, since the outer joints are different between the T4 and T5, can I swap the T4 outers onto the T5 shaft so that I won't have the change my hubs and all that nonsense?

When the time comes and the bugs are worked out I'll look for a 4motion box and locking rear diff from a newer T5, but I think this has taken a back seat to getting the van on the road so we can camp and actually use it this spring/summer. The good news is that if I already have a T5 box it should be mostly plug and play. I found someone that can help me with a standalone Haldex controller when I do eventually complete the swap.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Also, if anyone can verify the size of the 0a5 input shaft/spline count I would appreciate it. I've also posted on the T4 van forums again, so I'm hoping they will be able to shed some light as well.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Haldex is the way I'm going. I played around for about a month with the 02m I have and I could just never get it to sit/fit the way I wanted it to. Sooooooo I messed up and went and bought a 6 speed/4motion gearbox from a T5 from England. And it just arrived yesterday :).

Anywho, here is a picture from the front, first offering up.




I like where it fits, problem is, it still needs to go backwards a few inches, and I'd like to bring it up a little higher to help get the transmission and oil pan higher. Here's one from the right side.




The issue is the turbo. I'm using a 2.0 PD TDI from a B5.5 Passat, I'm wondering if the longitudinal layout has the turbo sitting a little more closely to the front/right side of the engine and I can't get it to sit in the hump in the firewall. For those of you who have put a TDI into something else, is there another exhaust manifold/turbo combo that will move the VNT-17 to the right and closer to the gearbox? Should I get a manifold from a golf/jetta? I need to shift the turbo closer to the gearbox to fit better. Is there an option out there that you guys know about? Is there a different VNT-17 that I can use that has the compressor on the driver side of the motor?

Here's a picture. As you can see, the transfer box output is in the middle, so I can't shift the lump any further to the left.



Definitely getting closer though. The T5 gearbox lets things sit/fit better that the 02m ever wanted to. I've also got a set of inner CV joints coming that I'll be able to use to figure out the axles. Interestingly, the Eurovans have 28/27 splines on the inner/outer of the axle shaft that the CV joints fit on, the T5s have 30/29. I'm either going to have to respline the inner end of the T4 shaft, or see if I can swap the inner stars between the two CV joints and make up a franken joint/axle. I've got to get the engine/gearbox mounted up first, though.

Hopefully someone can help me out here. Thanks!
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Favourite color for the T4! :) Subscribed, and gaining inspiration to import a European T4 California TDI 4motion. :)
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Favourite color for the T4! :) Subscribed, and gaining inspiration to import a European T4 California TDI 4motion. :)

Be still my beating heart. That in a T5 flavor would be epic. I'm hoping I can do the same thing with mine that that would be. We shall see. It looks like I'm also going to have to adjust my steering rack to clear the angle drive to the rear. Not sure how I'm going to get around that yet. This doing something new and breaking new ground on a project is tough.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Ok, a little update. I figured out why the turbo keeps getting in the way. See the pictures below.





Pardon the messy garage in the background, limited space and things go where they fit right now.

The BHW turbo is spaced out/angled off of the block quite a bit to fit both the starter and AC bracket/compressor under the turbo. From what I can tell the transverse mounted cars have a manifold that holds the turbo closer to the block. I emailed Thomas at Quality German Autoparts and he said he has a manifold that will work for what I need with the three bolt flange to keep using the VNT-17 from the Passat. I emailed him on Friday afternoon and he called me back on Sunday to discuss it. Wow. Just wow. Awesome customer service and I hope to be able to continue doing business with him.

I've got a cut to length/fit section of oil return hose from Darkside Developments to use once I get the turbo remounted on the new manifold, and I also purchased a flexible braided stainless oil feed line from Kerma. Kerma will also hopefully be sending me some other gaskets and mounting bits to button things up.

The next thing I have a question about is the number three cylinder exhaust port. You can see that 1, 2 and 4 are pretty dry (I'm counting from the cambelt side back to the flywheel), but number 3 has a bit of a shine/sheen on it.

1.


2.


3.

4.


Is this something to be worried about? Or is this some leftover fuel from the last time it was running? It ran well and drove itself easily into the garage with minimal fuss or smoke before the motor was pulled. The rear main was leaking a little (has been replaced) and there was oil all over the back side of the motor, if the exhaust manifold gasket was bad would it make it look like this? Just wondering if there is something I need to look into while the motor is out and everything is accessible easily.


I had to loosen/raise the steering rack to get the gearbox into place and fitted where it is far enough back, I still am waiting on the european inner CV joints to get here so I can mock up some axles. I'll likely need to get some spacers to keep the rack over the rear transfer case output, I'm not completely sure how to integrate this yet. Has anyone here retrofitted one of the newer electric power steering pumps from the newer cars? How does it integrate with the steering rack? I'm hoping the transmission is far enough back that I won't have to adjust the front shock absorber mount points. Since the torsion bars help hold most of the weight I don't think moving the mount point a little forward shouldn't be too big of an issue if it's necessary.

I'm also in contact with Darkside in the UK to try and find a 240mm clutch disc that will hold the torque and have the right splines for the T5 6 speed 0a5. The 02m input shaft is definitely smaller with a different spline count.

Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated.

-Ryan
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Oh, I also mocked up some motor mounts with fancy CAD (cardboard aided design) and dropped them off with a local fab shop, hopefully should have them soon. I'm going to attempt to drop the tank and figure out what to do with the old gas/swap the diesel lift pump in today/tomorrow. Is there anything else in the gas system that will need to be swapped over? There's a gas fuel filter in line underneath the driver's seat and in front of the tank, should that stay or can I get rid of it since the TDIs have the fuel filter right on the block? It's probably half the distance from the Eurovan tank to the engine compared to the Passat wagon, will I need any sort of inline fuel pump for the pressure?
 

Josh_WA

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Mountlake Terrace WA
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI, 1993 Eurovan Weekender TDI(AHU) converted 2/2016, 93 Eurovan MV TDI(1z)(sold!)
I haven't needed a lift pump to get the diesel to the engine from the tank with my AHU conversion. I'm even using the full length of fuel line from the jetta donor. I removed the gas fuel filter, and using a the diesel fuel filter near the injection pump.

You'll need to remove 3 pieces of metal bracket fused to the bottom of the tank after you pull out the gas pump, or it will keep the diesel fuel sender from resting on the bottom. I forget which way, but you rotate the gas pump off the brackets to remove it. I pried out those brackets, then used a dremel to cut the remaining interfering plastic away. You can also enlarge the fuel tank inlet to allow for the larger diesel pump nozzle while the tank is out. You won't want to realize at the pump that it hadn't been enlarged yet.
 
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archemitis

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Location
minnesota
TDI
200 Golf, 1974 Westfalia TDI
LOL, I really like the CAD!
I too was wondering if a lift pump would help. The fuel tank on my 1974 transporter is near the front of the vehicle with the engine in the back, and it never seemed to want a lift pump. I run an inline filter near the fuel tank to catch large items before they get to the real fuel filter.
That shiney port might just be the stock EGR favoring one cylinder more than the others?
Thanks for the pictures! Looking good!
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
I've got the motor in/hanging on its own motor mounts now, and I just finished taking apart the Passat BHW wiring harness. I've got some inner T5 CV joints coming from Poland, supposedly ::), and I'm hoping that they will be able to get me started on the axles. I'm still mired deep in the wiring nonsense right now, but I think I'll be able to swap the Passat's ABS pump/computer in place of the EV one so the ECU accepts it. And I'll have to pare down a bunch of the wires since the EV ESP controller/ABS computer is 88 pins vs the 42ish for the Passat. Yay for wiring diagrams.

One thing I didn't count on is the shift box I got from the Audi TT has the same left/right cable movement, but the fore/aft movement is reversed on the T5 box. I can't decide if I want to make a small level system at the gearbox end to reverse the current fore/aft throw, or if I want to get a shifter from a T5 and try to retrofit it in. The T5 shifters are mounted on the dash though, and I'm not so keen on the idea of having to make a new console for it to fit.

I was able to also swap over the in tank lift pump from the Passat after dropping/draining the EV tank. I'll be interested to see how it fits/works, the EV pump is a slightly different design that the Passat's is, and the float arm is on a different side. I think I've been able to rotate it around and adjust it appropriately, but I won't know until I'm able to run a few tanks of diesel through and calculate mileages. I decided to cut a small access hatch in the carpet though so it will be fairly easy to access the lift pump in the future. I plan on getting some rubber mat to cover the carpet up front anyways, so I'm not worried about the two cuts in the carpet.

Dang, so much still left to do, but I feel like I've made a ton of progress this past week with just the tank and wiring. I'm hoping that once the wiring gets sorted, the rest will just start falling into place.

Some messy pictures from my 1.5 car garage, pardon the disaster esque look of the place. :-X



Firewall clearance. I'm going to have to reposition the turbo vacuum acuator slightly to clear the fire wall. I didn't want to use the BFH too much, but I bet I could have made it fit.



Swapped the BHW exhaust manifold for one from a B4 passat. Lost the EGT port on the BHW manifold, but I think I've got it figured out how to get it back inline. I had to make an adapter plate to spin the turbo about 30* too since it was at a different angle in the Passat. Here is the Passat exhaust manifold, you can see how the turbo is angled back to fit the starter and AC compressor on that side of the engine in the longitudinal configuration.



Here are the two fuel pumps side by side, the Passat pump doesn't have the floating top section and doesn't need the locking ring on the bottom of the tank either. But since the EV tank is slightly angled under the lift pump hole I couldn't get the Passat's pump to spin all the way around to where I wanted it for the fuel level float. We'll see how off it actually is.



Next time I don't even think I'll need to take the E-brake cover off.



And the beginning of the mess...



Just to try and clean up the floor a little all the wiring for the engine plugs is laying up here now. I think I'll have connections from the EV and can get rid of the Passat side for a lot of these guys. Plus I can get rid of all the VR6 side of the wiring once I figure out what is needed and what isn't. I'm going to try and use the EV fuse block, I haven't quite figured out where I am going to put all the relays for the TDI yet. But I just went through and disconnected everything that was hooked up in the engine compartment and went through the firewall. It makes it kind of a mess for now, but once I'm able to weed through/out the things like the lights and wipers, HVAC and double connections I should be good to go. I have the entire CANBUS wiring for the Passat as well, but the EV has a much neater/nicer system with the block that all the CANBUS cables connect into on the right side of the fuse block. They're all just factory soldered/sealed in the Passat. Bush league, ha.


So anyways, onward and upward. I think once I'm able to get power back to the ECU and can start pruning pieces out of the EV wiring harness that aren't needed I'll feel better about all of this.
 
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iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Hmm, it appears photobucket has decided to charge a ransom to post my pictures online... I'll have to swap them around.

Not much has happened since the last post. More wiring nonsense. I wasn't happy with the location of everything with the first set of mounts, I've decided to rework things. The biggest issue is getting the transfer case output past the steering rack. The rack needs to move up or down about 2"/5cm. I don't really want to do this for fear of bump steer, I may just get things in with a slight angle and worry about it later when I'm getting back to making the 4motion work and bolting the rear diff in.

Does anyone know which direction a T3/vanagon steering rack goes with clockwise/anticlockwise rotation when viewed from the front? If it works the correct way I may be able to use it instead as it's the same width, just lower profile.

Still waiting on the machine shop to have my new hubs ready. I wish I had the lathe and welder big enough to do it myself, but alas, I don't. Hoping to have this rolling by the fall, especially by the winter. Too much work, travel and work around the house the past few months to do too much else on the van.
 

Zeitgeist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
Cascadia
TDI
'04 Variant and Vanagon mTDI
Wow, it's a real bummer about those pics. I'm seriously contemplating a Syncro/TDI swap for my EV.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Wow, it's a real bummer about those pics. I'm seriously contemplating a Syncro/TDI swap for my EV.
If I didn't care as much about the gear ratios, I could have been done by now. The T4 syncro gearboxes (02d and 02g(VR6)) bolt right in and things just work. One of the parts guys in Europe is working on an adapter to put a TDI to a VR6 02g transmission, haven't heard anything else about it yet. Since I knew I wanted a higher horsepower TDI and I wanted better/different gear ratios I'm being ridiculous and fitting a T5 4motion gearbox with the plan of fitting the T5 rear/4motion/Haldex controller with a standalone controller. Should be fun when it's ready, getting it there though... A process. I still have the pics, anything in particular you're interested in?
 

Zeitgeist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
Cascadia
TDI
'04 Variant and Vanagon mTDI
Yeah, your project is a bit more ambitious than mine, but you're working with essentially the same van as me and I haven't seen too many late model EV Syncro swaps before. I'm primarily interested in seeing where all the peripherals sit in relation to the other engine compartment pieces. I'm under the impression that the AC compressor sits really low when raked forward 15 degrees. Additionally, I would like to see how you mounted the passenger side engine mount to the late model block
 

450

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
None. 01 EV
I've been watching this for a while. I find it interesting that you've gone this route. We've put in a fresh-ish AXK motor in our EV last year, so was hoping to keep that but hopefully use a transmission setup similar to yours.

Out of curiosity, why use the Passat ESP module instead of the Bosch 5.3 original or an MK60 standalone?
 
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iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
If I didn't care as much about the gear ratios, I could have been done by now. The T4 syncro gearboxes (02d and 02g(VR6)) bolt right in and things just work. One of the parts guys in Europe is working on an adapter to put a TDI to a VR6 02g transmission, haven't heard anything else about it yet. Since I knew I wanted a higher horsepower TDI and I wanted better/different gear ratios I'm being ridiculous and fitting a T5 4motion gearbox with the plan of fitting the T5 rear/4motion/Haldex controller with a standalone controller. Should be fun when it's ready, getting it there though... A process. I still have the pics, anything in particular you're interested in?
STill haven't heard much from Frans from Dutch Auto parts about the 02g conversion adapter plate, I'm sure they're quite busy during the summer. I decided to change the angle of the transfer case and raise the axle outputs which put the transfer case over the steering rack instead of under. Ideally I would need to move the steering rack as the output needs to go straight through it to sit right. I looked at most of the VW racks online and can't find a suitable replacement for a flatter/lower profile rack. Then I got to thinking about the steering geometry and realizing that I probably don't want to start messing around with that if we're wanting to drive this thing on the road at high speeds (65-70mph at least...).

Then I sat. And stared at the motor and the gearbox. I clearanced the side of the transfer case just a little so it sits better next to the steering box, it's still super tight though. So I sat and stared and kicked the tires some more.

That's basically what I've done over the past 2-3 months. It was OK, but I wasn't happy with the positioning. Then there is the fact that the only local machine shop that would work with me to make the gearbox hub adapters has been busy and dragging their feet and still hasn't made the hub adapters after almost three months after I was told two weeks. Sigh. Enter lots of frustration and not wanting to work on the van.

I was mildly frustrated one day and cruising eBay and I found something that I had been looking at for a few months. There was a 5 speed T4/Eurovan syncro transmission with diesel gearing just a few miles up the road in Portland. I was able to wiggle a little on the asking price and the seller actually was able to deliver it to the house for me which saved me three hours.

SO now we have a brand new/crate/reman'd 02d with the CRX gear ratios, super low gearing which will be great for around town and on the fire roads, I'm going to swap in a 5th gear around .688 or .652 (Maybe even a .622 as seen here on a 2.5L TDI T4) to drop the highway revs, I think it will still work well in the 4th-5th drop based on the gearing spreadsheet I made up and with the tires I have. There are pluses and minuses to this:
Good - gearbox mount and pendulum mount are stock and bolt up instead of needing fab work. Granted, not extremely difficult, but I don't have all the fab stuff at my disposal and it's a pain in the butt to have to wait on someone else to do it for you.
-speedometer plugs up/works like stock instead of needing to fab a sensor mount and figure out how to get the proper ppm to it.
-axles - probably the best and biggest relief of going to this gearbox. The stock manual axles (108mm vs. the auto's 112mm CV joints) fit. The idea of not having to have custom axles made and rolling around with one off custom stuff that's difficult to replicate is actually quite reassuring and makes me feel much better about travelling, especially down to Mexico. Equal length front CVs also makes keeping a spare around mucho easier.
-shift linkage - I have the full shift linkage, shift box, cables, cable ends, and shifter for the T5 gearbox. It mounts up on the dash in a T5 so I was going to have to either fab something up to fit it there or hack the mechanism up and mount it to the floor. Either way it was a bunch of foot dragging and hesitancy to do either of those which added to the frustration and slowing me down. Being able to use a T4 shift box also means I can get serviceable parts much easier and I found one for $50 on eBay uk that is on its way here supposedly.
-exhaust - again, making a custom downpipe isn't the end of the world, it's just more fabbing and being unable to do that myself I have been dreading this part. I was able to find a downpipe for a 2.5L TDI that likely has a different turbo exhaust flange (I have the correct one for a BHW) but bolts up to the van on the downstream side by the cat. $60 plus shipping which wasn't too much. No even a question. Having a new flange welded on by an exhaust shop is a cake walk instead of needing a flex pipe and whole new tubing bent, custom made. Again, loads of stress off of the design phase.
-the rear end syncro bits will now also bolt up and not need intricate design and work.
-my wife is definitely happier with this plan and just wants to go drive the van already :p.

Cons - the biggest is the gearing. The T5 diesel gearing would have been like driving an 02m Golf mk4 or one of the newer TDIs.
- torque - the 0a5 gearbox is rated up to 500NM, the 02d I'm using is in the 250NM class. So plans for pumping up the power and a close to 200hp Eurovan TDI are now quite handily placed to the side. Stock power ~250ft-lbs (330NM) so technically over already :eek:. But the guys in europe having been pumping up power to the TDs and swapping the ABL TDIs without much ado or exploding gearboxes, so I think I'll be ok. I'm guessing/assuming the VW engineers built at least a little bit of fudge factor into those numbers. We shall see... I know the USRT guys sell a strengthening bracket for the pinion shaft of an 02a/j to help it in higher torque applications and seem to have good results with it, so that may be an option for us too and help me breathe easier. Since the 02b/d is based on the 02a it should fit and will likely help out for possible higher torque times, especially off road.


So more pros as far as bolting up. The gearing swap and pinion shaft brace is something that is easy to do and I think the ease of bolting up and not having to make custom axles is worth it. We shall see.

If anyone wants a 2011 T5 4motion 0a5 gearbox with the correct clutch disc from Darkside Developments and all the shift linkage, let me know.


Yeah, your project is a bit more ambitious than mine, but you're working with essentially the same van as me and I haven't seen too many late model EV Syncro swaps before. I'm primarily interested in seeing where all the peripherals sit in relation to the other engine compartment pieces. I'm under the impression that the AC compressor sits really low when raked forward 15 degrees. Additionally, I would like to see how you mounted the passenger side engine mount to the late model block
The AC won't be bad since it's in the middle, the thing I'm worried about it the power steering pump. The 1.8T swap guys in the UK forums have either cut a hole in the lower engine cover and welded on a hood for the pump wheel, or they've used an electrohydraulic pump from a Toyota MR2 or a Mini Cooper. I think that I'll end up doing it this way to help the clearance. Other options/opinions are welcome :).


I've been watching this for a while. I find it interesting that you've gone this route. We've put in a fresh-ish AXK motor in our EV last year, so was hoping to keep that but hopefully use a transmission setup similar to yours.

Out of curiosity, why use the Passat ESP module instead of the Bosch 5.3 original or an MK60 standalone?
Ideally you will want a 5 speed 02g for the vr6 from Europe. You could use an 02m but then run into the shifter and axle issues above and wouldn't be able to use the output from the transfer box to the rear.

The eurovan ABS controller is actually NOT on the pump, it's in the car. Since I'm swapping most of the engine controls and wiring from the Passat, i kept the ABS pump wiring and plug as well. I *think* I'll be able to splice into the vehicle speed sensor wire and can system of the van to be able to let the BHW ECU and the ABS ECU work together like they should. From my research I remember the Passat ABS unit I have also has ASR and EDL, the eurovan one I have didn't. But I could be wrong about that. I was thinking like and like controls would be easier to work vs. swapping ABS units since I know some of them can't be recoded and some ECUs won't accept a swap in vagcom coding.
 

vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
If the ABS system is like the one on my B3, with the controller external to the system and the hydraulic accumulator "bomb" on the master cylinder then I don't believe it has any connection to the vehicle speed sensor. It already has all the information it needs from the wheel speed sensors. That style of ABS is completely standalone.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
If the ABS system is like the one on my B3, with the controller external to the system and the hydraulic accumulator "bomb" on the master cylinder then I don't believe it has any connection to the vehicle speed sensor. It already has all the information it needs from the wheel speed sensors. That style of ABS is completely standalone.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
Vanbcguy, hmm, the wiring documents I was looking at seemed to show the abs controller inside the van having the VSS signal. Not only that but I'm not sure I can get the different controller to talk to the bhw ECU. From what I've read on mk4 and pump and asr-->esp swap a lot of folks have had issues if they didn't use a certain abs pump/ecu. That was part of the reason of switching to the Passat abs pump and controller, plus that was less pruning of the tdi wiring harness. I'm finishing plumbing the Passat abs pump today so I'll let you know the outcome. I'm waiting on my clutch to get here (hopefully) this week so it can be bolted in and get the engine hung on the motor mounts. Should have the oil pan back this week or early next, which should be the last engine mechanical bits. I still need to figure out the intercooler piping and the coolant line flow, especially with the rear heater in the van. It's getting close though. I'm hoping to have it started/running by the end of the month.
 

450

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
None. 01 EV
From my research I remember the Passat ABS unit I have also has ASR and EDL, the eurovan one I have didn't. But I could be wrong about that.
IIRC all of the 01-03 non-camper vans came with ESP and stability control by nature includes traction control (ASR). Did your van have an ESP button near the hazard button?

And yeah you're right the 02G would be the most painless option, just kind of a bummer that it would mean the van would stay FWD and I wouldn't be able to get a Syncro or 4Motion setup.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
IIRC all of the 01-03 non-camper vans came with ESP and stability control by nature includes traction control (ASR). Did your van have an ESP button near the hazard button?

And yeah you're right the 02G would be the most painless option, just kind of a bummer that it would mean the van would stay FWD and I wouldn't be able to get a Syncro or 4Motion setup.
It has/had ESP and asr by default, but not EDL based on the info I could find. The Passat ABS unit has all three it seems. The biggest thing was getting the Eurovan abs pump to talk to the Passat ecu, no clue if that's possible honestly. From the mk4 abs pump swaps it appears only a small number of pumps can be coded to an ecu, no one really has a list or why it works that way. Just the way they were designed and programmed.

The 02g would be nice, but the 4cylinders won't bolt up to one. So you would need to import a 2.5L tdi. They offered syncro in the 02g though. I just didn't want a motor I couldn't easily get parts or service for. What I'm building is basically a stock van but with the BHW diesel instead of the ABL that was offered. Next gen TDI with otherwise stock van parts.

Some odds and ends parts and the starter delivered today. Exhaust was shipped. I'm hoping most of the big parts are in by next week so I can put them all on. The missus is going to be out of town for a few days which leaves me full reign in the garage. Minus a half a day for some mountain biking. The only things I'll still need to fab up are the oil pan and pickup which is at the welders currently, the passenger side mount, and the transfer case mount to the block on the passenger side. I think the rest is basically bolt/cobble together with parts I have.

Still need a coolant flow diagram of anyone has one for a 2002 EVW westfalia.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Oh and I suppose I'll need to get the correct turbo exhaust flange welded into the downpipe when it shows up.
 
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