BHW Engine Mount Dilemma

[caffeine]

I've tried posting a couple other places with no luck, but basically I'm trying to resolve a dilemma around engine mounts.

For a bit of a backstory, I'm doing a BHW swap into an Audi Allroad, and the mounts from the donor car have evidence of being bad (red stains on the bottom of the mount indicating that the hydraulic fluid has been leaking). Everywhere I look, the advice is to always replace with OEM mounts only when looking for a mount up to the task of keeping the BHW engine feeling smooth in the vehicle (and I want my Allroad to be as smooth as possible after the conversion). I noticed that there are a handful of aftermarket brands offering diesel-specific mounts for the B5.5 platform, but basically ZERO objective reviews of them that I have been able to find. Because of this, I looked around and found what I THOUGHT was a decent deal on OEM mounts from Europa Parts. My mistake was that I saw the description of "OE Supplier" on their website and I assumed that what I would be getting is OEM mounts from the brand that supplies VW. What I received was an MTC-branded mount (which I could find for nearly US$100 cheaper than Europa charged) and a Hudson Products mount (which I can't find much info on other than that they are a parts re-boxer).

I immediately contacted Europa, and they agreed to send me a partial refund for the MTC mount (they gave me back US$80; I sent them pages for 3 much cheaper sources for the MTC mount and they price-matched the highest of the 3) and change the listing on the website (they changed it from "OE Supplier" to "OE Aftermarket". I STILL feel like "OE Aftermarket" is misleading, especially since they definitely know which brands they have available, but I suppose it's better than no change at all.

My dilemma: First, I have no idea what genuine VW BHW mounts actually feel like, since I haven't actually driven a diesel Passat, therefore I have nothing to compare the aftermarket mounts with. Second, I can find ZERO objective reviews of either of these aftermarket brands; it is slightly promising that they are sold specifically for the diesel engine, but there's still virtually no information available regarding quality and longevity.

Does anyone on here have any first-hand experience with aftermarket diesel-specific BHW mounts? Even after going through the trouble of getting a partial refund, I still find myself leaning towards sending these back and just ordering genuine VW mounts from a more reputable supplier, though I would probably prefer keeping them if I can find any quality information about them on here that would convince me they're reputable. The Hudson Products mount actually does have the correct VW part # on the side of the mount, but the MTC mount has a different part # molded into the rubber secion, and nothing on the side (the part # suffix is 'S' instead of 'AR'). The Hudson Products mount was listed for US$49.95 while the MTC mount was listed for US$129.95 on the Europaparts website.

 

[PickleRick]

VW owners are a sensitive bunch. There are threads on Passat world on removing the dash to eliminate rattles. You won't get any positives on aftermarket mounts.

If my beater daily driver Passat needs motor mounts and I'm out of my used parts supply, I won't be buying OEM.

I don't have any on road drive time with my bhw 4runner but at idle where my Passat drones my Yota with solid rubber 22re eBay replacement motor mounts is not any louder. I have no top on the 4 Runner, just got a windshield and the carpet is half as dense as the Passat carpet with a 1/4 of the sound dampening.

Both are balance shaft deleted. My 4 runner is getting a new cam sometime this week, she's pretty bad.

 

[caffeine]

VW owners are a sensitive bunch. There are threads on Passat world on removing the dash to eliminate rattles. You won't get any positives on aftermarket mounts.

If my beater daily driver Passat needs motor mounts and I'm out of my used parts supply, I won't be buying OEM.

Lol I definitely wouldn't consider myself 'sensitive'. I've owned plenty of vehicles with significant NVH, including multiple vehicles where I ran zero rubber at all for engine mounts, just welded steel brackets, and still drove them daily for long stretches of time.

However, for THIS specific vehicle, I want to build something functional, smooth, and economical; I'm putting a BHW with geared balance shafts into an Audi Allroad, and for THIS vehicle I absolutely do want quality mounts.

I'm really just looking for a good comparison between these brands and OEM, and surely other people have used them; if you don't have a comparison to share, I'm honestly not sure why you bothered posting... It's fine that you don't care about the same things I do, but you really didn't add anything of value to this thread.

 

[PickleRick]

I went back and highlighted the opinions you're going to get on aftermarket mounts on this forum in my first post. Hope that adds a value your thread. I'm sorry if a negative opinion on the cheaper mounts isn't what you wanted to hear.

 

[caffeine]

I went back and highlighted the opinions you're going to get on aftermarket mounts on this forum in my first post. Hope that adds a value your thread. I'm sorry if a negative opinion on the cheaper mounts isn't what you wanted to hear.

All you said is what I already know. I already know the opinion is that OEM mounts are superior, but there's also a huge variation in quality in the aftermarket; lots of aftermarket brands advertised to fit aren't even hydraulic. I'm asking about specific brands that I have done extensive searching on, that are specifically advertised for the diesel engine (most aftermarket mounts are advertised as fitting both gasoline and diesel engines). I'm looking for first hand experience, which you don't apparently have, therefore your response adds nothing of value to the thread.

 

[PickleRick]

I gave your first hand experience on using solid rubber mounts on a balance shaft deleted BHW mounted in a vehicle with less sound dampening than a factory Passat. I daily drive a 5 speed converted Passat diesel, I can give a better side by side comparison on mounts than most. If you buy 50 dollar mounts they are likely solid. Not what you want if you want smooth. Some guys with the AR bhw swap go as far as w8 hydraulic transmission mounts. Again, VW owners are a sensitive bunch when it comes to vibration and rattles. You'll likely not be happy. OEM is what, 175 each?

 

[Yetii]

I bought corteco mounts from FCPeuro. (Part number 8D0199382AE.) They were marked as OEM replacements. It’s a German company but they are Chinese made replacements. I bought two. This is technically the passenger side motor mount but the mounts work for both sides. The passenger side comes with a heat protector rubber that covers the mount so it’s an added plus for the driver side as the driver side one technically doesn’t come with it.

The difference from the original mounts (153k miles)to the new are night and day. I have a bsm delete with a manual swap. It barely vibrates. I would expect some rumble as it’s a diesel and I thought the old mounts weren’t even that bad with the vibration.

Too add… oe aftermarket is very misleading.

*edit* my old mounts weren’t leaking or that stressed imo. I did also replace the snub mount with a 034 Motorsport snub mount which honestly didn’t add NVH imo, and I also replaced the transmission mounts with lemforder mounts

 

[caffeine]

I bought corteco mounts from FCPeuro. (Part number 8D0199382AE.) They were marked as OEM replacements. It’s a German company but they are Chinese made replacements. I bought two. This is technically the passenger side motor mount but the mounts work for both sides. The passenger side comes with a heat protector rubber that covers the mount so it’s an added plus for the driver side as the driver side one technically doesn’t come with it.

The difference from the original mounts (153k miles)to the new are night and day. I have a bsm delete with a manual swap. It barely vibrates. I would expect some rumble as it’s a diesel and I thought the old mounts weren’t even that bad with the vibration.

Too add… oe aftermarket is very misleading.

*edit* my old mounts weren’t leaking or that stressed imo. I did also replace the snub mount with a 034 Motorsport snub mount which honestly didn’t add NVH imo, and I also replaced the transmission mounts with lemforder mounts

Thanks for the input. I had seen some online reviews of Corteco and Lemforder brand Audi/VW hydraulic mounts for gas engines, but this is the first time I've seen a positive review of them for a diesel engine. Those brands seem to be in the same price range as what I paid for these mounts. How long have you had them installed btw?

 

[Yetii]

Thanks for the input. I had seen some online reviews of Corteco and Lemforder brand Audi/VW hydraulic mounts for gas engines, but this is the first time I've seen a positive review of them for a diesel engine. Those brands seem to be in the same price range as what I paid for these mounts. How long have you had them installed btw?

1000 miles. Time will tell if they last. (FCPeuro offers lifetime warranty so I’m not worried if I need to replace as it will be free and it’s not to hard.) I was to understand that the “fluid filled” hydraulic engine mounts were a must for the TDi. I believe the other variants (1.8t v6) use a solid rubber mount? I may be wrong. Anyway I know from the 1.8t models the NVH from the solid mounts (034 Motorsport) weren’t bad, for a TDi Ive read the cheap aftermarket solid mounts are horrible. The lemforder tranny mounts are solid. I’m interested in the hydraulic filled w8 tranny mounts picklerick mentioned.

 

[caffeine]

I gave your first hand experience on using solid rubber mounts on a balance shaft deleted BHW mounted in a vehicle with less sound dampening than a factory Passat. I daily drive a 5 speed converted Passat diesel, I can give a better side by side comparison on mounts than most. If you buy 50 dollar mounts they are likely solid. Not what you want if you want smooth. Some guys with the AR bhw swap go as far as w8 hydraulic transmission mounts. Again, VW owners are a sensitive bunch when it comes to vibration and rattles. You'll likely not be happy. OEM is what, 175 each?

Except these are supposed to be hydraulic, and I wasn't asking about solid rubber mounts.

I can get OEM mounts shipped from Europe for about US$220 here to Canada. The initial Europa order without the 'price match' was about US$210 without some other items I ordered from them, so not a significant savings... maybe you can see why I thought they would be OEM at that price?

I can live with some vibrations, but, again, part of my dilemma is that I actually just don't know what OEM quality mounts are supposed to feel like, as I've never driven with them. I wanted to experience that, but since it's a hassle to return these, and shipping from Europe typically isn't fast, I wanted to know what other people's experience has been with them.

I can't expect a 20 year old vehicle to have no rattles or vibrations, but also I want it to be as good as it reasonably can be.

 

[Yetii]

Except these are supposed to be hydraulic, and I wasn't asking about solid rubber mounts.

I can get OEM mounts shipped from Europe for about US$220 here to Canada. The initial Europa order without the 'price match' was about US$210 without some other items I ordered from them, so not a significant savings... maybe you can see why I thought they would be OEM at that price?

I can live with some vibrations, but, again, part of my dilemma is that I actually just don't know what OEM quality mounts are supposed to feel like, as I've never driven with them. I wanted to experience that, but since it's a hassle to return these, and shipping from Europe typically isn't fast, I wanted to know what other people's experience has been with them.

I can't expect a 20 year old vehicle to have no rattles or vibrations, but also I want it to be as good as it reasonably can be.

I have zero experience with what the car felt like brand new off the lot. That seems like more of a question for oilhammer. I have zero experience with cheap aftermarket solid mounts. Since I technically put in oem and oe replacements according to FCP for all the mounts besides the snub mount I can say my experience so far is the car is practically vibration free at idle. I do have experience with worn mounts. I originally thought it wasn’t bad until I replaced them and seen how much better it was.

Like picklerick said you’re gunna get a frowned upon responses of the aftermarket replacements. Everything I’ve read about them is negative.

Sucks Europa did you like that and I would hope they send you a prepaid shipping label with a 100% refund for the inconvience. I would order from FCP. You can’t beat their lifetime warranty.

 

[caffeine]

Sucks Europa did you like that and I would hope they send you a prepaid shipping label with a 100% refund for the inconvience. I would order from FCP. You can’t beat their lifetime warranty.

They did offer to cover shipping (though I haven't clarified if they meant the initial shipping cost from them, or the cost to return, or both), but if I return these I'll most likely be ordering from Europe instead.

The lifetime warranty from FCP is probably great for people in the US, but not a lot of US vendors offer economical shipping to Canada, and it's a 4 hour round trip to the border; there are a few US-based vendors that have really reasonable shipping options to Canada (like rockauto), but FCP isn't one of them. I did order from them once, but ended up paying an extra $60 on top of the order for duty and brokerage fees upon arrival.

 

[Yetii]

They did offer to cover shipping (though I haven't clarified if they meant the initial shipping cost from them, or the cost to return, or both), but if I return these I'll most likely be ordering from Europe instead.

The lifetime warranty from FCP is probably great for people in the US, but not a lot of US vendors offer economical shipping to Canada, and it's a 4 hour round trip to the border; there are a few US-based vendors that have really reasonable shipping options to Canada (like rockauto), but FCP isn't one of them. I did order from them once, but ended up paying an extra $60 on top of the order for duty and brokerage fees upon arrival.

What’s the difference in cost between local VW dealer and online?

 

[caffeine]

What’s the difference in cost between local VW dealer and online?

It's about CAD$500 for both mounts from my local dealer. So getting close to double the cost.

 

[Windex]

Can't speak to how well the aftermarket mounts work, I replaced mine with OEM about 6 years and 250,000 km ago - looking to replace again as vibrations in the morning on cold days are starting to get a little annoying - not crazy, but just at the point where I'm looking to improve things again.

I have tried new OEM transmission mounts and have tried new OEM W8 hydraulic transmission mounts as well - transfered them back and forth with the OE auto mounts just to see the difference - did not feel much of a change - would not go for the hydraulic trans mounts again.

Mine is also deleted, but keep in mind that the delete is not going to cause the kind of vibrations that are helped or worsened by mounts.

There removal of the BSM will increase 2nd order vibrations, those are higher up in the rev band - around 2k rpm. The vibrations most common on worn mounts are 1st order/primary - low down - idle is worst.

I find that when my car is dead cold in January, the primary vibrations through to the car in the morning are the most noticable, and if I get on a highway drive of an hour or more, the heat from the engine softens the mounts to the point where the vibration is again tolerable - no worse than when the car is driven in the summertime. I also find that the mounts are still stiff(er) in the summer (1st thing) but that the mounts take a lot less time to heat up and soften.

Note that both of my engine mounts are leak-free and presumably still full of their hydraulic fluid.

I did get as much reduction in vibration in replacing the transmission mounts as I did from replacing the engine mounts back when I changed them out.

I also got some improvement by loosening all 4 mounts, lifting the engine/transmission with a lift bar / hoist, and allowing the mounts to settle down evenly with no mount load sideways in any way.

After the above, I reset the snub mount so that it was centred in its pocket.

 

[MEgearhead]

I replaced all 4 original factory mounts at around 140K with hydraulic Lemforders (an OEM), and the snubber with genuine VW Audi. The old factory mounts had the VAG part numbers, VW, four rings, and the Lemforder owl. One was leaking fluid. The Lemforder engine mounts were identical except for the VAG part number, VW, and four rings (based on this I figured they were OE). Since I switched to hydraulic transmission mounts, they clearly were not identical.

This was coincident with deleting the balance shaft, so more than the mounts changed, but there was a slight increase in vibration. I attributed it to the bs delete. Increase in vibration is not really a good description. It was not at idle, but rather increased buzziness at 1400-1800 rpm, and was consistent with what a few others had reported after bs delete. I have 225k on it now with no issues with the mounts, but I need to replace the snubber. I would not consider the BHW a smooth engine.

Not trying to start an argument, but right wrong or indifferent, I use the following designations above:

Genuine VW Audi - a dealer part.

OE - made by the same manufacturer that makes the genuine part, but sold as an aftermarket.

OEM - made by a manufacturer regularly making similar genuine parts for the vehicle manufacturer.

 

[Windex]

Wanted to bump and follow up on this thread -

For reference the car is a 2005 B5 wagon, BSM delete with BRM gear, 01E 6spd swap original harmonic balancer, and 240mm EU DMF flywheel with a sachs SRE clutch.

Engine vibrations recently took a turn for the worse. feels like a focus/mazda 3 with a collapsed main pendulum mount (common) In past, the car with good mounts would vibrate "annoyingly" only when the car was very cold (-15c / zero F) or thereabouts, and get better to unnoticable once the car fully warmed up.

I got the car with 250k km and swapped in the 6spd, deleted the BSM and got ready to replace the Camshaft - surpisingly, now at 600k km, it's still on the original cam, and the lobes still have all of their chamfers. (steady diet of rotella T6).

I decided I wanted to try (despite my own advice above) aftermarket engine mounts, as the OEM from VW are $600 canadian pesos for the pair. The mounts that showed up looked fine and were in Meyle boxes. $75 cdn per side. I suspect this is not enough money for genuine hydraulic mounts the car calls for.

Didn't work. The mounts that showed up looked good enough, and I suspect would be fine for a 1.8t or v6, but once installed they made zero difference in the amount of vibrations coming through the cabin, which were considerable.

What I think happened is that one of the mounts slowly leaked out the hydraulic fluid over time (350k km of use) which eventually caused the car to vibrate more. My articulations of the engine to change out the mounts caused a leak on the other mount - it leaked all over me as I was raising the engine to remove the other side.

so, I have since removed the Meyle mounts, reinstalled the factory mounts (passenger side that I had removed, drivers side that I had sitting as a spare in the basement) and now the car is about the same, vibrating excessively, and only becomes somewhat tolerable at highway speeds with steady-above-idle RPM.

I have ordered the OEM hydraulic engine mounts through my local dealer. Will update once they are installed.

 

[Yetii]

Just wanted to update since Windex came in here. I’m over 10k miles on my Corteco mounts and still buttery smooth. Sorry to hear you’re having trouble windex. There are 4 things that I can think of that will cause bad vibration. Bad snub mount, bad engine mounts, bad transmission mounts or you replaced your axle with a solid aftermarket axle. The OEM axles are hollow.

 

[Windex]

Good info.

To add, axles (for the 6spd) are OEM - no aftermarket, ever. Front snub mount was replaced this past summer with the OEM foam style mount.

Will take the corteco success under advisement if the OEM mounts don't pan out.

I have used the OEM W8 hydraulic mounts in the past and didn't really feel a difference between them and the original rubber mounts (swapped them back and forth a few times as they are a 5 min change).

I suspect that the Meyle mounts I tried are just solid rubber, and that my replacement (from 10 years ago) OEM hydraulic mounts have succumbed to 350k km and need to be replaced.

should know by the end of next week when they show up and get installed.

 

[Windex]

My vibration issue is completely fixed. Update shortly with data to back things up (not just seat of the pants)

OK, so I couldn't leave well enough alone so I bought a vibration analyzer from Amazon:

For all the readings I took with it, I centered it on the steering wheel emblem, as that was a spot that gave readings consistent with the level (bad) of vibrations I was feeling in the car.

The reading above, 3.8 m/s^2 is bad, like shake your fillings out of your teeth bad. This was taken 2 min after starting the car on a 9 deg c day, and the engine not yet warmed up.

For reference, I started my wife's Audi, 3.2L Q5, and it registered a max of 0.2m/s^2

It has always been the case that the car will smooth out when it warms up (most noticible in the winter), and even with the bad mounts, this was also the case:

This is the same day around noon in the parking lot at work. I had just come back from a 1/2 hour drive, and the ambient temps were up to 18 deg c. The reading 2.7m/s^2, I would still consider intolerable, just awful to drive. The only saving grace is that at higher RPM, it smooths out quite a lot, say a long highway drive that keeps the RPM at 2100 is almost tolerable.

 

[Windex]

So, on to the mounts.

I'll start with a TLDR: The OEM engine mounts made the car better, but the replacement of the engine and transmission mounts really fixed the car.

Mounts:

From left to right - OEM bought yesterday from the VW dealer, drivers side and then passenger side engine mounts. The grey cover is a half-assed heat shield for the exhaust on the pass. side.
Middle is a used OEM mount that I installed and ran since I bought the car in 2014 - 350,000 km on it.. Right two mounts are brand-new Meyle, from my local aftermarket store.

The OEM mounts:

They weigh 762g. When the hydraulic fluid has all leaked out, they weigh 650g, the Meyle mounts were in-between.

OEM mounts appear to have a date code from January or July of 2022:

Made in England, and have the four audi rings on them

 

[Windex]

Part number stamped into the rubber was the same on both sides. I'm confident you could substitute the cheaper drivers side if your heat-shield-rubber is in good shape:

I also looked up the orientation of the mount in the factory manual - there is a little alignment dowel that should face the outside of the car(#2)

On to transmission mounts:

On the left, 3 year old aftermarket mount stamped TOPRAN, on the right, MEYLE, just bought from my local aftermarket supplier. I have lifted the rubber dust shield on both of them to view the rubber.

See the height of the rubber thingies? On the MEYLE mount they are higher. In fact, when installed, the mount rests right on top of those rubber pillars.

On the TOPRAN mount, the mount is supported by the central rubber structure in the mount.

Also, and I suspect this to be critical, the rubber in the MEYLE mount is much firmer - I don't have a strain gauge, but one can feel the TOPRAN mount give to fingernail pressure far more than the MEYLE.

All in all, I reinstalled the TOPRAN mounts, centered everything so that none of the mounts are side loaded in any way, and I was rewarded with:

Way better reading than I had ever been able to get, and that was while the car was still on the lift.

Once I got the wheels back on, and the car fully warmed:

Butt in seat feel is also astronomically better.

Interestingly, I used the vibration meter to measure the vibrations (now that the mounts are not transmitting vibrations excessively) and there is a low point of .3 around 1300 RPM, and it climbs to 1.1 around 1900 rpm. Expected, as my car has had the BSM deleted, and it is designed to mitigate vibrations in the 1900-2100 rpm range... C'est la vie.

All in all, the car is much better, livable now (again) we'll see how harsh it gets when the termperatures drop again come winter.

 

[CantWrite]

Nice job, I don’t think my mounts are quite as bad as yours, but I too have them sitting under the house and need to do them. Some cold winter mornings would rattle everything. I only have one stoplight in my 50 mile commute so I’ve put it off. When I shift cold, I keep the rpms off idle to mitigate the rattle.

Thanks for the alignment pin orientation.

I’ll be doing the on my back on jackstands. I’ll level the car to center all the mounts. Any tips or tricks?

You have motivated me to get off my rump.

 

[borninabus]

just want to acknowledge a quality write-up.
thanks for the effort and nicely done!

 

[Windex]

I had my car up and supported, used a jack under the oil pan to raise and lower the engine to get the mounts out. Transmission mounts are a piece of cake - lots of clearance.

The engine mounts are tight. make sure both sides have the top and bottom nuts removed - engine will not go high enough to get the mount out if the other side is still attached. You will need to remove all three bolts from the from snub mount bracket in order for the engine to be raised - note where the mount came off and try to put it back where you found it. It should not be loaded up or down when the engine is at idle. It's a bit of a fight, but the front snub mount can be replaced without removing the crossover pipe, if yours needs to be replaced at the same time.

The turbo side is a little harder to get at the top nut. I took the airbox out the first time, second time I got the top and bottom nuts (passenger side) from the bottom.

There is a bracket securing a power steering hose which is held in place by the top mount nut on the driver's side, make sure that goes back,

Also, ensure that the two tangs on the top of the mount line up with the slots in the engine mount bracket. Otherwise the engine will sit too high.

 

[CantWrite]

@Windex thank you so much!! Playing dad today (hike) then will start this process. Those tips will help me a ton!!

Oh last question, I was too cheap to buy the Bentley manual as the US version doesn’t cover the BHW. Do you have the torque specs handy.

If not I’ll search them out, and or use my “bar” style torque wrench to take them off and get a rough idea.

 

[Windex]

Yeah, I'm out right now, but I'll post them up when I get back home in a little bit

 

[Windex]

 

[vwztips]

I didn't read all the comments above, but have tried numerous aftermarket mounts and none compare to the VW mounts. Have tried all combinations of auto, manual, deleted and geared BSM.

I have also converted a AllRoad with a BHW and 6 speed manual. I used the VW mounts on the engine and the Audi mounts on the gearbox. Was a very nice set up. Also, for the AllRoad and 6 speed quattro gearbox, it is a must to use a DMF clutch. Period.

 

[EUROTDI1]

I'm planning to replace the engine mounts on my 140k mile Wagon. All mounts are still original, but both sides are leaking right now. It's got the AVF engine (similar to the BHW but never sold in the US, which has no BSM).

Have people with the BHW been able to replace the mounts by lifting the engine with a jack, (not unbolting the subframe / mount bracket), or is there not enough clearance?

I've ordered original VW parts (both engine and transmission mounts) so I'll report back what the change in vibration levels are going from fully original old parts, to fully original new parts.