BHW Engine Mount Dilemma

caffeine

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
00 ALH Jetta
I've tried posting a couple other places with no luck, but basically I'm trying to resolve a dilemma around engine mounts.

For a bit of a backstory, I'm doing a BHW swap into an Audi Allroad, and the mounts from the donor car have evidence of being bad (red stains on the bottom of the mount indicating that the hydraulic fluid has been leaking). Everywhere I look, the advice is to always replace with OEM mounts only when looking for a mount up to the task of keeping the BHW engine feeling smooth in the vehicle (and I want my Allroad to be as smooth as possible after the conversion). I noticed that there are a handful of aftermarket brands offering diesel-specific mounts for the B5.5 platform, but basically ZERO objective reviews of them that I have been able to find. Because of this, I looked around and found what I THOUGHT was a decent deal on OEM mounts from Europa Parts. My mistake was that I saw the description of "OE Supplier" on their website and I assumed that what I would be getting is OEM mounts from the brand that supplies VW. What I received was an MTC-branded mount (which I could find for nearly US$100 cheaper than Europa charged) and a Hudson Products mount (which I can't find much info on other than that they are a parts re-boxer).



I immediately contacted Europa, and they agreed to send me a partial refund for the MTC mount (they gave me back US$80; I sent them pages for 3 much cheaper sources for the MTC mount and they price-matched the highest of the 3) and change the listing on the website (they changed it from "OE Supplier" to "OE Aftermarket". I STILL feel like "OE Aftermarket" is misleading, especially since they definitely know which brands they have available, but I suppose it's better than no change at all.

My dilemma: First, I have no idea what genuine VW BHW mounts actually feel like, since I haven't actually driven a diesel Passat, therefore I have nothing to compare the aftermarket mounts with. Second, I can find ZERO objective reviews of either of these aftermarket brands; it is slightly promising that they are sold specifically for the diesel engine, but there's still virtually no information available regarding quality and longevity.

Does anyone on here have any first-hand experience with aftermarket diesel-specific BHW mounts? Even after going through the trouble of getting a partial refund, I still find myself leaning towards sending these back and just ordering genuine VW mounts from a more reputable supplier, though I would probably prefer keeping them if I can find any quality information about them on here that would convince me they're reputable. The Hudson Products mount actually does have the correct VW part # on the side of the mount, but the MTC mount has a different part # molded into the rubber secion, and nothing on the side (the part # suffix is 'S' instead of 'AR'). The Hudson Products mount was listed for US$49.95 while the MTC mount was listed for US$129.95 on the Europaparts website.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
VW owners are a sensitive bunch. There are threads on Passat world on removing the dash to eliminate rattles. You won't get any positives on aftermarket mounts.

If my beater daily driver Passat needs motor mounts and I'm out of my used parts supply, I won't be buying OEM.

I don't have any on road drive time with my bhw 4runner but at idle where my Passat drones my Yota with solid rubber 22re eBay replacement motor mounts is not any louder. I have no top on the 4 Runner, just got a windshield and the carpet is half as dense as the Passat carpet with a 1/4 of the sound dampening.

Both are balance shaft deleted. My 4 runner is getting a new cam sometime this week, she's pretty bad.
 
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caffeine

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
00 ALH Jetta
VW owners are a sensitive bunch. There are threads on Passat world on removing the dash to eliminate rattles. You won't get any positives on aftermarket mounts.

If my beater daily driver Passat needs motor mounts and I'm out of my used parts supply, I won't be buying OEM.
Lol I definitely wouldn't consider myself 'sensitive'. I've owned plenty of vehicles with significant NVH, including multiple vehicles where I ran zero rubber at all for engine mounts, just welded steel brackets, and still drove them daily for long stretches of time.

However, for THIS specific vehicle, I want to build something functional, smooth, and economical; I'm putting a BHW with geared balance shafts into an Audi Allroad, and for THIS vehicle I absolutely do want quality mounts.

I'm really just looking for a good comparison between these brands and OEM, and surely other people have used them; if you don't have a comparison to share, I'm honestly not sure why you bothered posting... It's fine that you don't care about the same things I do, but you really didn't add anything of value to this thread.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I went back and highlighted the opinions you're going to get on aftermarket mounts on this forum in my first post. Hope that adds a value your thread. I'm sorry if a negative opinion on the cheaper mounts isn't what you wanted to hear.
 

caffeine

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Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
00 ALH Jetta
I went back and highlighted the opinions you're going to get on aftermarket mounts on this forum in my first post. Hope that adds a value your thread. I'm sorry if a negative opinion on the cheaper mounts isn't what you wanted to hear.
All you said is what I already know. I already know the opinion is that OEM mounts are superior, but there's also a huge variation in quality in the aftermarket; lots of aftermarket brands advertised to fit aren't even hydraulic. I'm asking about specific brands that I have done extensive searching on, that are specifically advertised for the diesel engine (most aftermarket mounts are advertised as fitting both gasoline and diesel engines). I'm looking for first hand experience, which you don't apparently have, therefore your response adds nothing of value to the thread.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I gave your first hand experience on using solid rubber mounts on a balance shaft deleted BHW mounted in a vehicle with less sound dampening than a factory Passat. I daily drive a 5 speed converted Passat diesel, I can give a better side by side comparison on mounts than most. If you buy 50 dollar mounts they are likely solid. Not what you want if you want smooth. Some guys with the AR bhw swap go as far as w8 hydraulic transmission mounts. Again, VW owners are a sensitive bunch when it comes to vibration and rattles. You'll likely not be happy. OEM is what, 175 each?
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
I bought corteco mounts from FCPeuro. (Part number 8D0199382AE.) They were marked as OEM replacements. It’s a German company but they are Chinese made replacements. I bought two. This is technically the passenger side motor mount but the mounts work for both sides. The passenger side comes with a heat protector rubber that covers the mount so it’s an added plus for the driver side as the driver side one technically doesn’t come with it.

The difference from the original mounts (153k miles)to the new are night and day. I have a bsm delete with a manual swap. It barely vibrates. I would expect some rumble as it’s a diesel and I thought the old mounts weren’t even that bad with the vibration.

Too add… oe aftermarket is very misleading.

*edit* my old mounts weren’t leaking or that stressed imo. I did also replace the snub mount with a 034 Motorsport snub mount which honestly didn’t add NVH imo, and I also replaced the transmission mounts with lemforder mounts
 
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caffeine

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
00 ALH Jetta
I bought corteco mounts from FCPeuro. (Part number 8D0199382AE.) They were marked as OEM replacements. It’s a German company but they are Chinese made replacements. I bought two. This is technically the passenger side motor mount but the mounts work for both sides. The passenger side comes with a heat protector rubber that covers the mount so it’s an added plus for the driver side as the driver side one technically doesn’t come with it.

The difference from the original mounts (153k miles)to the new are night and day. I have a bsm delete with a manual swap. It barely vibrates. I would expect some rumble as it’s a diesel and I thought the old mounts weren’t even that bad with the vibration.

Too add… oe aftermarket is very misleading.

*edit* my old mounts weren’t leaking or that stressed imo. I did also replace the snub mount with a 034 Motorsport snub mount which honestly didn’t add NVH imo, and I also replaced the transmission mounts with lemforder mounts
Thanks for the input. I had seen some online reviews of Corteco and Lemforder brand Audi/VW hydraulic mounts for gas engines, but this is the first time I've seen a positive review of them for a diesel engine. Those brands seem to be in the same price range as what I paid for these mounts. How long have you had them installed btw?
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
Thanks for the input. I had seen some online reviews of Corteco and Lemforder brand Audi/VW hydraulic mounts for gas engines, but this is the first time I've seen a positive review of them for a diesel engine. Those brands seem to be in the same price range as what I paid for these mounts. How long have you had them installed btw?
1000 miles. Time will tell if they last. (FCPeuro offers lifetime warranty so I’m not worried if I need to replace as it will be free and it’s not to hard.) I was to understand that the “fluid filled” hydraulic engine mounts were a must for the TDi. I believe the other variants (1.8t v6) use a solid rubber mount? I may be wrong. Anyway I know from the 1.8t models the NVH from the solid mounts (034 Motorsport) weren’t bad, for a TDi Ive read the cheap aftermarket solid mounts are horrible. The lemforder tranny mounts are solid. I’m interested in the hydraulic filled w8 tranny mounts picklerick mentioned.
 

caffeine

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Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
TDI
00 ALH Jetta
I gave your first hand experience on using solid rubber mounts on a balance shaft deleted BHW mounted in a vehicle with less sound dampening than a factory Passat. I daily drive a 5 speed converted Passat diesel, I can give a better side by side comparison on mounts than most. If you buy 50 dollar mounts they are likely solid. Not what you want if you want smooth. Some guys with the AR bhw swap go as far as w8 hydraulic transmission mounts. Again, VW owners are a sensitive bunch when it comes to vibration and rattles. You'll likely not be happy. OEM is what, 175 each?
Except these are supposed to be hydraulic, and I wasn't asking about solid rubber mounts.

I can get OEM mounts shipped from Europe for about US$220 here to Canada. The initial Europa order without the 'price match' was about US$210 without some other items I ordered from them, so not a significant savings... maybe you can see why I thought they would be OEM at that price?

I can live with some vibrations, but, again, part of my dilemma is that I actually just don't know what OEM quality mounts are supposed to feel like, as I've never driven with them. I wanted to experience that, but since it's a hassle to return these, and shipping from Europe typically isn't fast, I wanted to know what other people's experience has been with them.

I can't expect a 20 year old vehicle to have no rattles or vibrations, but also I want it to be as good as it reasonably can be.
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
Except these are supposed to be hydraulic, and I wasn't asking about solid rubber mounts.

I can get OEM mounts shipped from Europe for about US$220 here to Canada. The initial Europa order without the 'price match' was about US$210 without some other items I ordered from them, so not a significant savings... maybe you can see why I thought they would be OEM at that price?

I can live with some vibrations, but, again, part of my dilemma is that I actually just don't know what OEM quality mounts are supposed to feel like, as I've never driven with them. I wanted to experience that, but since it's a hassle to return these, and shipping from Europe typically isn't fast, I wanted to know what other people's experience has been with them.

I can't expect a 20 year old vehicle to have no rattles or vibrations, but also I want it to be as good as it reasonably can be.
I have zero experience with what the car felt like brand new off the lot. That seems like more of a question for oilhammer. I have zero experience with cheap aftermarket solid mounts. Since I technically put in oem and oe replacements according to FCP for all the mounts besides the snub mount I can say my experience so far is the car is practically vibration free at idle. I do have experience with worn mounts. I originally thought it wasn’t bad until I replaced them and seen how much better it was.

Like picklerick said you’re gunna get a frowned upon responses of the aftermarket replacements. Everything I’ve read about them is negative.

Sucks Europa did you like that and I would hope they send you a prepaid shipping label with a 100% refund for the inconvience. I would order from FCP. You can’t beat their lifetime warranty.
 

caffeine

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Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Location
B.C., Canada
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00 ALH Jetta
Sucks Europa did you like that and I would hope they send you a prepaid shipping label with a 100% refund for the inconvience. I would order from FCP. You can’t beat their lifetime warranty.
They did offer to cover shipping (though I haven't clarified if they meant the initial shipping cost from them, or the cost to return, or both), but if I return these I'll most likely be ordering from Europe instead.

The lifetime warranty from FCP is probably great for people in the US, but not a lot of US vendors offer economical shipping to Canada, and it's a 4 hour round trip to the border; there are a few US-based vendors that have really reasonable shipping options to Canada (like rockauto), but FCP isn't one of them. I did order from them once, but ended up paying an extra $60 on top of the order for duty and brokerage fees upon arrival.
 

Yetii

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Location
New York
TDI
2005 TDi Passat
They did offer to cover shipping (though I haven't clarified if they meant the initial shipping cost from them, or the cost to return, or both), but if I return these I'll most likely be ordering from Europe instead.

The lifetime warranty from FCP is probably great for people in the US, but not a lot of US vendors offer economical shipping to Canada, and it's a 4 hour round trip to the border; there are a few US-based vendors that have really reasonable shipping options to Canada (like rockauto), but FCP isn't one of them. I did order from them once, but ended up paying an extra $60 on top of the order for duty and brokerage fees upon arrival.
What’s the difference in cost between local VW dealer and online?
 

Windex

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Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Can't speak to how well the aftermarket mounts work, I replaced mine with OEM about 6 years and 250,000 km ago - looking to replace again as vibrations in the morning on cold days are starting to get a little annoying - not crazy, but just at the point where I'm looking to improve things again.

I have tried new OEM transmission mounts and have tried new OEM W8 hydraulic transmission mounts as well - transfered them back and forth with the OE auto mounts just to see the difference - did not feel much of a change - would not go for the hydraulic trans mounts again.

Mine is also deleted, but keep in mind that the delete is not going to cause the kind of vibrations that are helped or worsened by mounts.

There removal of the BSM will increase 2nd order vibrations, those are higher up in the rev band - around 2k rpm. The vibrations most common on worn mounts are 1st order/primary - low down - idle is worst.

I find that when my car is dead cold in January, the primary vibrations through to the car in the morning are the most noticable, and if I get on a highway drive of an hour or more, the heat from the engine softens the mounts to the point where the vibration is again tolerable - no worse than when the car is driven in the summertime. I also find that the mounts are still stiff(er) in the summer (1st thing) but that the mounts take a lot less time to heat up and soften.

Note that both of my engine mounts are leak-free and presumably still full of their hydraulic fluid.

I did get as much reduction in vibration in replacing the transmission mounts as I did from replacing the engine mounts back when I changed them out.

I also got some improvement by loosening all 4 mounts, lifting the engine/transmission with a lift bar / hoist, and allowing the mounts to settle down evenly with no mount load sideways in any way.

After the above, I reset the snub mount so that it was centred in its pocket.
 

MEgearhead

Veteran Member
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Aug 6, 2016
Location
Virginia
TDI
B5.5, 4L, 4G
I replaced all 4 original factory mounts at around 140K with hydraulic Lemforders (an OEM), and the snubber with genuine VW Audi. The old factory mounts had the VAG part numbers, VW, four rings, and the Lemforder owl. One was leaking fluid. The Lemforder engine mounts were identical except for the VAG part number, VW, and four rings (based on this I figured they were OE). Since I switched to hydraulic transmission mounts, they clearly were not identical.

This was coincident with deleting the balance shaft, so more than the mounts changed, but there was a slight increase in vibration. I attributed it to the bs delete. Increase in vibration is not really a good description. It was not at idle, but rather increased buzziness at 1400-1800 rpm, and was consistent with what a few others had reported after bs delete. I have 225k on it now with no issues with the mounts, but I need to replace the snubber. I would not consider the BHW a smooth engine.

Not trying to start an argument, but right wrong or indifferent, I use the following designations above:

Genuine VW Audi - a dealer part.

OE - made by the same manufacturer that makes the genuine part, but sold as an aftermarket.

OEM - made by a manufacturer regularly making similar genuine parts for the vehicle manufacturer.
 
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