Bhw died, crank no start

[Nathan_og]

Was driving my Passat home when I had it floored around 100 and noticed nothing was happening. I experienced this before when it goes into limp mode so I shut the car off ( forgot to put it in neutral but realized right after) I went to start the car as I was cruising but it would not start. I safely pulled to the side of the road and the car just cranks but no start, it turns over fast as if it’s not getting any fuel or compression. No cel came on. Gonna give vcds a scan in a little bit.
Any ideas or test I could possible do?

thanks

 

[Windex]

Check your timing belt. Top front cover lifts up and off with two clips.

 

[Vince Waldon]

Crank sensor: is the tach wiggling a bit while cranking?

(doesn't explain the fast crank speed, though)

 

[Nathan_og]

Issue resolved!

found a code for cam position sensor, unplugged the sensor and it starts and runs rough.

is it pretty easy to change?

 

[Lug_Nut]

I wouldn't say 'resolved'. Maybe isolated to one area, but not 'resolved'.
That cam sensor might be fine, but the rotational POSITION OF THE CAM relative to where it ought to be might be incorrect.
Before replacing the sensor confirm that the cam is timed correctly. A jumped tooth might cause the sensor to create a shut-down (injector solenoid power cut) before something critical happens. A 'late' valve closing would result in less compression and a 'fast' crank with no fuel.
Defeating that sensor might have allowed the injectors to run again, but it might still be out of cam time by a tooth, and run rough as a result.
At least until it jumps further out and into valve-piston impact range.
Only after the cam timing is confirmed to be correct, then I agree that you should replace the sensor.

 

[Nathan_og]

Ok took a second look this morning, bunch of rubber teeth in the timing belt or shredded and fell off, engine turns over fine when cranking and no unusual sounds where heard. I’m assuming the belt shifted slightly.

could There still be piston valve contact even though it ran with the sensor unplugged and cranks fine?

 

[BuckeyeMan71]

I would say get the timing belt replaced before driving it again. Your asking for trouble really big trouble if you continue drive it.

 

[Nathan_og]

I would say get the timing belt replaced before driving it again. Your asking for trouble really big trouble if you continue drive it.

Ya just waiting for the shops assement and quote. Does anyone know how much a timing belt job normally runs on this car?

 

[Mozambiquer]

Ya just waiting for the shops assement and quote. Does anyone know how much a timing belt job normally runs on this car?

Depending on the shop, but you need more than just a timing belt... you mentioned it turning over fast as if it had no fuel or compression... that indicates with certainty that the pistons hit the valves. The head needs removed and the damaged valves and lifters replaced.

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, the timing belt part came and went. You need a valve job now.

 

[Nathan_og]

I know the car did kinda jolt and make a thud sound, sounded and felt exactly 100% the same as if you stalled in a manual car. Not sure if that’s from shutting it down in drive or maybe pistons hitting the valves.

luckily I have a good used low mileage head with cam. If it’s too much I might just attempt it myself or part the car out. It still needs a bsm delete on top of that

 

[Nathan_og]

Is it possible the section of teeth getting ripped off the belt could be caused from the car being shut off in drive?

 

[oilhammer]

Nope.

 

[Nathan_og]

Got it. So when I put it in service mode and pull everything off, to re time the engine do I need to just lock the crank with the crank tool and cam sprocket with the pin? I’m guessing that will put the crank and cam at tdc?

 

[oilhammer]

Read posts #9 and 10.

 

[yadic]

I wouldn't say 'resolved'. Maybe isolated to one area, but not 'resolved'.
That cam sensor might be fine, but the rotational POSITION OF THE CAM relative to where it ought to be might be incorrect.
Before replacing the sensor confirm that the cam is timed correctly. A jumped tooth might cause the sensor to create a shut-down (injector solenoid power cut) before something critical happens. A 'late' valve closing would result in less compression and a 'fast' crank with no fuel.
Defeating that sensor might have allowed the injectors to run again house cleaning services 30a, but it might still be out of cam time by a tooth, and run rough as a result.
At least until it jumps further out and into valve-piston impact range.
Only after the cam timing is confirmed to be correct, then I agree that you should replace the sensor.

Car was running fine, got gas, then died a 1/4 mile up the road. Didn't misfire or sputter. No codes. Just lost power.
-Replaced starter last year/fuel pressure regulator 3 weeks ago/fuel pump 2 days ago
-Battery is charged/all fuses/relays are good
-Next on my list is fuel pressure at the fuel rail and voltage to the fuel pump

Any other ideas what it could be? I was told it could be shift solenoid. Anyone have insight on this? Thanks in advance.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Car was running fine, got gas, then died a 1/4 mile up the road. Didn't misfire or sputter. No codes. Just lost power.
-Replaced starter last year/fuel pressure regulator 3 weeks ago/fuel pump 2 days ago
-Battery is charged/all fuses/relays are good
-Next on my list is fuel pressure at the fuel rail and voltage to the fuel pump

Any other ideas what it could be? I was told it could be shift solenoid. Anyone have insight on this? Thanks in advance.

You should start a new thread with your issues. And no, a shift solenoid won't cause it to die.

 

[Windex]

Dude. You posted two tell tale signs :
1) car died and then cranked over faster than normal.
2) timing belt has missing teeth

Your cam to crank timing was lost, valves very likely hit pistons, and now you need the cylinder head to come off and be rebuilt.

What about the above don't you get?

 

[Windex]

Ah... Yadic is not the OP. Fooled by the purple squares... :-/

 

[PickleRick]

I say go for it. Install the crank and cam lock tool to bring the motor back in time and toss in a new belt/tensioner and pump. Fire it up and see what it does. I've never ran a motor after losing a timing belt (knock on wood) but had a roommate with a b18b1 LS Integra lose one driving. My uncle ran a shop at the time and agreed to reassemble it as the cams and crank spun with typical effort. He continued to drive it many more years and continued neglecting timing belt change intervals.

Worse case scenario you drop a valve and put some holes in a piston or two, maybe damage a cylinder wall. Maybe throw a rod through the side of the block when a dropped valve dead stops a piston. Best case scenario you don't notice any damage and it runs fine.


A little tip, I can't remember if it's set the crank lock tool and then turn ccw 1/4 or half turn and it will allow plenty of valve clearance to set the cam at tdc. A cam install how to thread will cover the exact position. Good luck!

 

[Mozambiquer]

I say go for it. Install the crank and cam lock tool to bring the motor back in time and toss in a new belt/tensioner and pump. Fire it up and see what it does. I've never ran a motor after losing a timing belt (knock on wood) but had a roommate with a b18b1 LS Integra lose one driving. My uncle ran a shop at the time and agreed to reassemble it as the cams and crank spun with typical effort. He continued to drive it many more years and continued neglecting timing belt change intervals.

Worse case scenario you drop a valve and put some holes in a piston or two, maybe damage a cylinder wall. Maybe throw a rod through the side of the block when a dropped valve dead stops a piston. Best case scenario you don't notice any damage and it runs fine.


A little tip, I can't remember if it's set the crank lock tool and then turn ccw 1/4 or half turn and it will allow plenty of valve clearance to set the cam at tdc. A cam install how to thread will cover the exact position. Good luck!

Often these will run, but they also often lose the valve head after 1k miles or so. The reason for that is the exhaust valves are two piece, you can see that if you use a magnet on them, the head isn't magnetic and about 1/4 the way up the stem it is magnetic.
Also, when the piston hits the valves, it smashes the lifter together, often causing cracks on the lifter surfac and causing them to not pump up correctly.

 

[oilhammer]

That's the thing, the damage can be hidden... and be easily found and repaired now. But do catastrophic damage later if not fixed.

They are not making any more of these cars. And they won't sell us a new one. Closest thing you can get to that car in the USA right now is a $41k Audi A4 sedan, and it of course is no diesel. Hate to see these get ruined and trashed like this. They hold up well, and drive great if cared for properly.

 

[PickleRick]

Often these will run, but they also often lose the valve head after 1k miles or so. The reason for that is the exhaust valves are two piece, you can see that if you use a magnet on them, the head isn't magnetic and about 1/4 the way up the stem it is magnetic.
Also, when the piston hits the valves, it smashes the lifter together, often causing cracks on the lifter surfac and causing them to not pump up correctly.

I hope you didn't take me seriously, I was being sarcastic. The risks far outweigh the rewards...I was hoping my long list of additional, some unrepairable, damage will make him reconsider pulling the head. If all the pistons are equally flush with the top of the cylinder upon inspection the he can potentially save hundreds of dollars with just a few hours worth of work and only some head work.

 

[Nathan_og]

Yes I will be pulling the head. Just looking for another car and gonna work on this one on the weekends. Got a good head already and gonna do a full timing belt job

 

[Nathan_og]

Got the car towed back to my house and front end in service mode. Timing belt covers are off and belt is ready to come off then gonna take everything off the head and pull the head.
I was wondering since I’m in here, is it a lot more work to delete the bsm same time? I am a little nervous to attempt it.

also any tips or advice when installing the new head? Anything I should keep in mind or be aware of?
Thank you

 

[Windex]

Check your used head for straightness, also check it for cracking between the valve seat and injector hole.

Bam delete is more work of course. Current ne of the harder tasks is removing the old crank gear. Also remember to tap and plug the oil feed to the BSM. Otherwise you will have zero oil pressure.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Absolutely delete the bsm while you're at it. They're a ticking time bomb.

 

[Nathan_og]

Also, would victor reinz head bolts be ok or should I go oem? And as for head gasket I can get either victor reinz or Elring.

 

[Nathan_og]

Does anyone know what size bolt the bracket is attached to the bottom of the turbo? And the size for the 2 bolts holding the turbo to the exhaust manifold? Heads ready to come off just stuck on this turbo. Thanks

 

[Nathan_og]

Alright heads off. I don’t see any signs of piston valve contact the valves face all look to be in good condition. I was expecting to see something kinda smashed or squished unless that’s how they usally look after contact. One thing I noticed is 2 pistons look slightly cleaner where the valves would come down. Maybe those 2 hit the valves but I don’t know.