BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement

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blaz

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ScotR said:
I was just reading the how to page for the bs module and it is a very good right up. I myself have done a few and there are a few things that can be done to make it easier
Er, ScotR, would you be in the Mechanic business?

There's a bunch of Ontario Passat owners looking for a place to get this done, without the trek to Missouri.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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There are just too many to list....
It is not a big deal for me to remove the lock carrier because I have an A/C machine handy. You could certainly leave it in place. I just prefer not to have to lean over things.

While the A/C is being sucked down I do other things on the job, so there really is no wasted time. I pull them off on just about every B5 timing belt job.
 

wolfsburg

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blaz said:
Er, ScotR, would you be in the Mechanic business?

There's a bunch of Ontario Passat owners looking for a place to get this done, without the trek to Missouri.
I would think that VDubTech should be able to do this..in Toronto just off 400 north of 401...But no parts are available in Ontario!????? Well for that matter anywhere it seems.
 

sschnath

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I had a dealer that I trust quote ~$3300 for a complete rebuild of the timing belt area (including water plump and tensioners), new serpentine belt, plus the balance shaft replacement parts included in the Impex kit.

It worked out to $2072 for parts and tax and $1100 for 12 hrs of labor. They believe this to be worst case and think the labor could come down some when they actually do the job. They've never done the job so I doubt it would come down much. They normally charge around $1000 for the timing belt work so the incremental BS work would cost me $2300. This seems reasonable and would prevent me from having to travel to get this done.

They're also willing to order the parts without any sort of up front payment from me, mainly because they're not seeing any of the BS parts in stock (which I was prepared for) and they have no idea how long it will take to get them.

I'm going to have a second dealer quote it but I'm pretty sure they'll come in a few hundred dollars higher and I'm sure they won't order the parts without advance payment.
 

maktas

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2005 Passat TDI
I got a call from my extended warranty company, probably to offer an extention on the current plan, I wasn't able to talk to them yet (they left a message), but what do you guys think it? I guess it will depend on how much they are asking, but it could be a good hedge against a $3000 parts and labor BS replacement work. Its kinda a cynical to hope that the chain will break.
 

aja8888

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Well, if the chain does break, it can be the end of the engine (crankshaft and rod bearings fail, no lubrication to the top end, etc. That can cost a lot but the extended warranty may cover it. Do you have faith that it would is the question?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
We just had a Passat W8 in here with a bad chain tensioner/cam phaser assembly, and that extended warranty company would not cover it. So I would not 'depend' on that type of scam.
 

leicaman

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The W8 sure sounds like one expensive motor. So if you think the BHW is expensive with its BS bs, just think how tight a W8 is in a Passat engine bay. Gives me the willies just thinking about it.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Not all that tight actually.. But it is expensive. Nearly $20k for one, and there is not anything serviceable on the longblock (in other words, if it needs a valve job, you get to buy a new engine).
 

DickSilver

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I studied the option of going ahead with a 100K timing belt replacement and buying an "extended warranty" that looked to be from a reputable outfit. Their requirements were extensive in terms of the maintenance I must perform, all MUST be done at "licensed" repair/service shops. They limited their coverage to $3300 on the engine and $6000 total on the car during another 100K/5 year driving interval.

I decided that using the extended warranty to bet that the chain & BS module would fail but then cost less than $3300 after a catastrophic failure, and NOT have them weasel out of the warranty was the wrong way to go about things, so I have bought the geared BS kit from Impex and am having my local independent shop do the work.
 

vw4life

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Dick, when is your upgrade scheduled to take place? Please advise us of the capabilities of your local shop after the car has been returned.
 

aja8888

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DickSilver: have you received your balance shaft kit from Impex yet? I have one on order but they appear to be having problems obtaining the parts.

Thanks,

Tony
 

outthere

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2004 B5 Northern Green wagon
Mine goes to www.4induktion.com on monday. Ordered the kit from Impex (thru Induktion). Should arrive tomorrow (they are across town from Impex).

Does it make sense to measure before after vibration with a vid clip of a cup of coffee at idle?

I get slight steady oscillations now. I dont think I have a failed or failing BS and I dont hear any noise. Not even convinced I couldnt wait another year. But I'd like to hang onto the car, I like the ride, don't know what I'd replace it with that I'd like more, and cost the same. And it might leave me in the boondocks if it fails.

Worth the investment of 2-3k to go another 100k. (Let's hope & pray...)
 

DickSilver

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aja8888 said:
DickSilver: have you received your balance shaft kit from Impex yet? I have one on order but they appear to be having problems obtaining the parts.

Thanks,

Tony
aja8888: I spoke with Impex yesterday. My order with them was placed about a week ago. They said they had six geared BS module kits coming in; they were in Los Angeles and would arrive at Impex in Maryland this Friday 16 Jan, and subsequently ship out to me. They said that the six kits were all they had in the pipeline right now, and more would have to be ordered direct from Germany. I forgot to ask if all six were already sold to customers.

There is one thing I like about dealing with Impex. The folk who answer the phone are real USA people (English as a first language) who are knowledgeable about cars, not some poor ignorant call-center people.
 

aja8888

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DickSilver said:
aja8888: I spoke with Impex yesterday. My order with them was placed about a week ago. They said they had six geared BS module kits coming in; they were in Los Angeles and would arrive at Impex in Maryland this Friday 16 Jan, and subsequently ship out to me. They said that the six kits were all they had in the pipeline right now, and more would have to be ordered direct from Germany. I forgot to ask if all six were already sold to customers.

There is one thing I like about dealing with Impex. The folk who answer the phone are real USA people (English as a first language) who are knowledgeable about cars, not some poor ignorant call-center people.
Thanks Dick; I spoke with them yesterday also and was told there were 9 kits in route (but maybe he looked at the "6" upside down for me)..:D

I put my order in on the 6th of January and at that time was told they were expected on the 9th. But at least they are in route. Hopefully, we are on the top of the list.

Thanks again,

Tony
 

aja8888

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Scott: Here they are.


IMPEX SKU # 935619


BHW MODULE REPAIR KIT


Included In Kit
03G 103 295 Q – differential case with gears, shafts and oil pump
03G 105 212 C – replacement gear for crankshaft
03G 103 305 C – balance shaft drive gear
4- N 911 213 01 – bolts to attach balance shaft drive gear
5- N 106 014 02 – balance shaft bolts
N 910 512 01 – balance shaft bolt
N 911 234 01 – bolt for balance shaft front near drive gear
N 909 775 02 – bolt for balance shaft front near oil pump
038 103 085 E – crankshaft seal
045 105 229 – crankshaft pulley bolt
2 -N 908 897 01 – bearing cap bolts

Thanks,

Tony (and others)
 

Scott_DeWitt

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Scott_DeWitt said:
Thanks I should get a quote back tomorrow.
I've got a price from Europe, there are plenty there, and I can do an essentially at cost deal of $1225.00, with a 2 week delivery. I can get the parts in 2-3 days at a pretty large up charge. This price is heavily dependent upon the exchange rate so I can't guarantee pricing until funds are received.
 

Scott_DeWitt

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vw4life said:
Group buy? I guess you are already at cost price...your prices include shipping?
If there is a quantity order I can negotiate with my vendor in Europe. but any additional discounts will have to come from them.

There will also be a bit of cost savings with shipping multiple units.

The price I mentioned above includes shipping from Europe, shipping to you guys would be additional.
 

sschnath

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After giving the matter some additional consideration, I've decided not to have the BS work done proactively.


I'm at 195K miles now and the car will be 5 years old in June. I'm thinking/hoping that if I were going to have a problem in the BS area it would have surfaced by now and that the problems being seen now are limited to a specific lot or lots that I'm not a part of.


Also, while there are definitely problems in the field, we don't know yet how widespread this really is. I know there is another thread in this forum where we're attempting to gather that data but I don't know whether we'll ever be able to gather enough data to have a statistically valid population to draw conclusions from.


I know that all chains will eventually break but perhaps by the time mine lets go, I'll be ready to let go of the car. I had hoped to get 400K out of it and that may or may not happen but it's a goal, not a requirement. Should I end up with a broken part, I'd have to make the repair ROI determination at that time.


While it's possible this is a design defect, it's also possible that VW had already decided to make some improvements in the BS area due to manufacturing cost reduction goals or for future functionality but which have no functional impact on this particular engine. The current failures could just be a matter of coincidence. I work for a computer hardware manufacturer and I've seen stranger things happen.


Also, if VW knew there was going to be massive fallout from a known design defect, wouldn't they have positioned more parts in North America ahead of time to head off the inevitable complaints that would result from cars being out of service for extended periods due to part availability? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.


I feel like if I spend the money now I'll just have that nagging suspicion that I spent the money unnecessarily. I know others would rather not have the nagging suspicion that they're driving an engine that could fail at any moment and I totally understand that. It's just that with the data that's available so far, the former suspicion is carrying more weight for me than the latter.


As this situation evolves my opinion may change. I just hope it's not due to first hand experience!
 

Lug_Nut

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sschnath said:
I'm at 195K miles now and the car will be 5 years old in June.
At 200k you should be thinking about at least replacing the chain and tensioner anyway. I don't care if it's a cam chain on a small block Chevy, 200k miles is too close to 1/2 life. And this chain is no where near as robust as a sbc cam chain.
Each link has 8 pieces (1/2 link has 4). The chain is many links long. When just one of those pieces fail in this engine.....:eek:

I had a similar debate with myself, but I know chains wear and stretch. I know I'd be replacing it once, maybe twice while I expect to own this car. The labor of replacing a chain and tensioner or installing a geared drive is nearly a wash. The price difference between the chain parts and the geared module and parts is several hundred dollars, but it's a one time and done situation.
I weighed the options and after deliberation I'm in for the gear.
 

MOGolf

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2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
sschnath said:
While it's possible this is a design defect, it's also possible that VW had already decided to make some improvements in the BS area due to manufacturing cost reduction goals or for future functionality but which have no functional impact on this particular engine.
Not very likely. The engine is not in production anymore. No cost savings for an engine they don't produce. They designed and produced retrofit parts for every engine design they made with chain driven balance shaft modules. They don't all use the same parts, either. Obviously, this was a significant investment in engineering and manufacturing parts because they will all fail.


sschnath said:
Also, if VW knew there was going to be massive fallout from a known design defect, wouldn't they have positioned more parts in North America ahead of time to head off the inevitable complaints that would result from cars being out of service for extended periods due to part availability?
sschnath said:
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
Definitely too much credit.

20,000 units x $1000 (round numbers for est. parts costs, shipping and storing to them) = $20,000,000 in cost until somebody buys the parts. That's a significant number to invest in a market so insignficant to them (based on units sold).
 
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abctdi

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ABQ, NM, USA
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2005 Passat GLS
195k is definitely an outlier, consider yourself lucky.
You should probably do something besides nothing at the next TB interval, sschnath.
 

blaz

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05 Passat
Is there any way this thread can be made a sticky?

MoGolf's first post in this thread, at least, should be readily available without having to use the search function.
 

aja8888

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Has ANYBODY actually recieved the balance shaft kit set up from World Impex yet? I have had one on order since the 6th of the month with two ship promise dates, both of which were unfulfilled. Now Impex tells me in an e-mail that they ask *daily* with WVOA and only pass along what they are told, which is not told to me.

Is this a mistake to order with Impex seeing they CHARGED may credit card for the $1300+ the day I placed the order?:mad:

Personally, I have a feeling that Impex has no clue when this stuff will show up.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
I was kind'a hoping O-H would do the same, hit my card for the parts this month and the labor and incidentals next, just to spread out the pain.
That, and by me paying for parts now, they're mine and not to be sold to another before I get there.
Whatever... Only a few more weeks to bite my nails in trepidation.
 
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