BHW Balance Shaft Module replacement

Status
Not open for further replies.

CsTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
TDI
'10 TouaregTDI, '15 JettaTDI
Aren't the service intervals established in the manual that come with the vehicle considered part of the sales contract, at least in good faith?

What if the reason that you bought a car was that the manual that came with a particular car, and confirmed by their service dept., told you that there was absolutely zero service on the car required until 100k and sometime after you purchase it, they revised it to say, that wasn't correct, the belt needs to be replaced at 80k... It seems to me that without official notification by the manufacturer that there is a manual change, at their cost, that they can't do this.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
none, 2014 Chevy Volt, 1988 Bolens DGT1700H
Then you go to court and sue for breach of contract, or intent to defraud, or loss of value or some other cause. They counter with their written "reserves the right to change specifications", statements in your copy of the manual and you're SOL.
If the dealer has provided a written conformance to suitability for purpose, such as a claimed zero maintenance construction) then the dealer, not VWoA, is the guarantor.
 

CsTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Location
Baltimore, Maryland
TDI
'10 TouaregTDI, '15 JettaTDI
The services section of the manual is either important or it is not. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Court? Not me, it would cost me alot more to go to court than the relative difference in changing the belt 20k early. However, a class action over damages, if enough occurred, could make a difference.

I guess I am just coming to terms that the big VW corporation with the great commercials, vehicles, likeability, and loyal followers, protect themselves with contracts (on our behalf no doubt :rolleyes: ) and who already has a well paved method of communicating with purchasers of its vehicles is not very likeable or loyal themselves when it comes to letting purchasers know about a known concern that has caused them to significantly change a spec. that can bury your car prior to its expected lifetime. (same with the BS assembly)

How about a letter that says based on service dept. data, customer concerns, belt manufacturer recommendations,... "we are revising our specs. so change your belt at 80k not 100k" Is that too much to ask? I suspect that they would rather not draw attention to this issue and are probably betting that the "class" of belts will make it to 100k.

I don't think the "let's not give them heartburn" dept. made this decision
 
Last edited:

owr084

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Northern Virginia (NoVA)
TDI
Passat GLS, 2005, Stonehenge Gray
outthere said:
Has anyone considered the following idea?

Find 6 B5 owners in your area. Buy 6 BS modules. Rent a shop for a weekend. Fly in OH/MOGolf for a weekend GTG and split/share costs.

It seems like it would be easier to fly them in and work on 6 cars at once than to have 6 cars drive a couple thousand miles RT for a repair.

I like my car and dont think its unreasonable to sink 2500-3000 bucks into a car that will make it last another 5 or more years. I'm not sure I can explain a 1700 mile road trip from MD to St. Louis though.
I've thought about that too when the time comes.

OH/MOGolf - what kind of facility would it take? How many lifts would be needed to complete 6 changeouts? Does the work need to all be done on a lift? If so, then 3 lifts would be needed for two days?
 

TheGrove

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
S Central PA (Breezewood)
TDI
2012 Passat SEL Premium Opera Red - Dieselgate Fix, KermaTDI Tune, 2004 Passat GLS Northern Green-RIP
owr084 said:
I've thought about that too when the time comes.

OH/MOGolf - what kind of facility would it take? How many lifts would be needed to complete 6 changeouts? Does the work need to all be done on a lift? If so, then 3 lifts would be needed for two days?
Read the thread B5 BHW engine noise Revisited. OH goes into detail there about his tools and that he won't do the work without them and it is prohibitive to ship his multiple chests of tools. This is one of the big reasons for the Feb weekend meeting in St Louis so he can do a bunch of cars and have access to his full assortment of tools - beyond what is required for just this job.
 

Skidor

Active member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Location
San Francisco, CA
TDI
2000 Chevy 6.5 TD 4x4. 274k and still chugging
TheGrove said:
Read the thread B5 BHW engine noise Revisited. OH goes into detail there about his tools and that he won't do the work without them and it is prohibitive to ship his multiple chests of tools. This is one of the big reasons for the Feb weekend meeting in St Louis so he can do a bunch of cars and have access to his full assortment of tools - beyond what is required for just this job.
Anyone own a shipping business? I wonder how many B5's we could fit on a trailer....
 

abctdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
ABQ, NM, USA
TDI
2005 Passat GLS
Believe it or not, I'd rather drop it off at the dealer under warranty. I'm still at 54k miles and live across the country from the gurus.
 

DeliveryValve

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Location
Western US
TDI
Passat GLS Wagon
Skidor said:
Anyone own a shipping business? I wonder how many B5's we could fit on a trailer....
I've been wondering for a while too and would like to go that route if I need it. I am at 55,000 miles and have another 45,000 miles left on my warranty. Hopefully a needed warranty fix would be corrected with the right parts. :confused:
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
DeliveryValve said:
I've been wondering for a while too and would like to go that route if I need it. I am at 55,000 miles and have another 45,000 miles left on my warranty. Hopefully a needed warranty fix would be corrected with the right parts. :confused:
I wonder what kind of failure would get you into the extended warranty? Chain break/destroy engine?
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
I'm wondering as well. If the chain fails though and since they aren't made anymore, wouldn't they have to pony up and pay for the new gear design? Here's another question, does it have to fail in order for them to cover it? Mine is making noise now, is that enough or do I have to have a complete failure?
 

Route 66

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 1997
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2005 VW
VW and the extended warranty companies deal only with failures not speculation. The shop that put in my BS had told me that if the warranty company did not cover whatever that problem was that I was looking at $1000.00 to drop the oil pan.
 

maktas

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Windsor, ON Canada
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
jasonh said:
I'm wondering as well. If the chain fails though and since they aren't made anymore, wouldn't they have to pony up and pay for the new gear design? Here's another question, does it have to fail in order for them to cover it? Mine is making noise now, is that enough or do I have to have a complete failure?

This is the dilemma I am in. My extended warranty will expire mid next year, so I plan to do a last ditch effort and sit down with my stealership's service manager and make him undestand this issue and argue that there is engine noise that was not solved with a new water pump and say that the BS has to be changed. Its worth a shot, but I think the better senario is if the chain breaks BEFORE the extended warranty runs out.

The bottom line is that VW needs to stand up and admit they put a junk BS design into an otherwise great engine, and issue a TSB so that we can all get the BS that needed be in in the first place. This is exactly like my old 1994 Intrepid.... the 3.3L engine was excellent, the issue was the the junk 41TE/42LE tranny that needed an overhaul every 60k.
 
Last edited:

maktas

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Windsor, ON Canada
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
Route 66 said:
VW and the extended warranty companies deal only with failures not speculation. The shop that put in my BS had told me that if the warranty company did not cover whatever that problem was that I was looking at $1000.00 to drop the oil pan.
How did you get them to change the BS, did you just argue that there was a noise?
 

Route 66

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 1997
Location
Minnesota
TDI
2005 VW
Originally, I heard this noise. It was incorrectly diagnosed from three separate VW Dealerships as the power steering pump. I felt that they were wrong. So, a friend recommended an unknown shop to me that he had used in the past and was happy with. I took my car there and once the BS was off, he knew it was the hex shaft. So he called Fidelity (the warranty company). They sent someone to the shop to confirm the damage and give the ok to proceed with the repair.
 

maktas

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Windsor, ON Canada
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
Not to clutter this thread, however, could someone post a detailed diagram of the BS assembly? I am curious to understand more about the parts involved.
 
Last edited:

maktas

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Windsor, ON Canada
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
oilhammer said:
Those diagrams have been posted in the other threads, and there are several pictures as well.

Well I found this on this page on the other thread by MoGolf, I would love to see what part#/description each of the numbers are associated with (on the Bill of Material) then using the new parts list for the module I can cross reference to see all of the parts we are talking about. I am guessing its parts 1-> 4...18->28. There is no chain so I am guessing this is pretty close to the new BHW BS module.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3629/BRT_oil_assembly_overview.JPG
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
There is a detailed parts list in MOGolf's pdf document on the procedure. Much of it is hardware. The 3 main pieces are the 'housing' (which is the BS module with oil pump) and 2 gears. Everything else is hardware, and the front crank seal.

All the parts in question that get replaced are in that picture basically. But that is NOT a picture of a BHW engine. But it is the same basic layout.
 
Last edited:

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
The equivalent parts of 1, 2, and 18-32 in that picture are covered in the parts list in the PDF. There is no 3-4 for the BHW module. The new BS module includes 1, the equivalent parts of 18-24 (oil pump and its pick up), and 27-31. The various sized bolts (2 and 26), and gears (25 and 32) are listed separately.
 

maktas

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Windsor, ON Canada
TDI
2005 Passat TDI
Excellent, thank-you guys. I finally got around to looking at the PDF, we all appreciate the work you guys have done.
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
What I think we should start is a list of people who are qualified (ie gurus) who have the technical experitise who can replace the oil pump chain with the oil pump gear assembly. We all know that Oilhammer and MoGolf have done the procedure and are of course fully qualified. As folks get 'em fixed, we should make a note of who really knows how on earth to get this operation done properly. I don't think it would be out of the way to make it a sticky or something on that order.
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
PDF updated

I updated the PDF with minor revisions. Reduced picture size of BS module installed to properly fit the page, included pictures of T10053 seal installer and 3393 subframe alignment pins.

Noted that I need to get pictures of using these tools.
 

rarmstrong

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Location
Charlotte
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
aja8888 said:
Mine has *noise* at 54K. My friend's 2005 TDI Passat wagon in Connecticut has *noise* at 31K. This is all over the park with respect to chain/tensioner wear and noise.
Can anyone describe what the said noise sounds like? My 04 has 78k on it so far...been a decent car so far with only a few things while under warranty... motor mounts, AC relay...and then alternator went out after warranty. I'm wondering if I too will have the bs problem.

Thanks!
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
Refer to the other threads.
 

cspeter8

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
TDI
2004 Passat Sedan
MOGolf said:
Edit to add:
World IMPEX has put together a kit price of the parts for those of you who are unable to get to oilhammer for help.
Geared Balance shaft module kit

I have no association with the company.
Cool. A question: How much would purchase of all the machined special service tools cost? I could not find the tool with part# 3359 at www.metalnerd.com. Is the cost high enough to entertain the idea of 'renting' the tools for shipment from anyone who has them already?
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
http://www.metalnerd.com/cat14.htm Second from the bottom (as of this posting).

I personally won't rent tools to anyone. The total cost of tools listed (not counting the usual sockets, wrenches, Torx bits, XZN bits, engine support, oven, blocks of wood, and heat resistant gloves) is in the neighborhood of $600 (plus or minus a few) plus shipping and tax (where applicable) and depending on sources.
 

DickSilver

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2004 B5.5V, 1996 B4V
Oilhammer: Is the kit sold by World Impex (IMPEX SKU # 935619) that you refer to in your original post, the same kit sold thru dealers? Or is it separately sourced, so as to not depend on VWOA's stocking strategy?
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
FYI: World Impex Kit:

IMPEX SKU # 935619
BHW MODULE REPAIR KIT


Included In Kit
03G 103 295 Q – differential case with gears, shafts and oil pump
03G 105 212 C – replacement gear for crankshaft
03G 103 305 C – balance shaft drive gear
4- N 911 213 01 – bolts to attach balance shaft drive gear
5- N 106 014 02 – balance shaft bolts
N 910 512 01 – balance shaft bolt
N 911 234 01 – bolt for balance shaft front near drive gear
N 909 775 02 – bolt for balance shaft front near oil pump
038 103 085 E – crankshaft seal
045 105 229 – crankshaft pulley bolt
2 -N 908 897 01 – bearing cap bolts


I have an e-mail into them to see if they actually have all of the above in stock (I hear otherwise).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top