BHW/01E 6 Speed Swap

Uberhare

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
Trans went in in March. There was a mileage jump then. Warmer weather compounded with the 6 speed would be May.

Not looking forward to winter.
 

mrrhtuner

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Mar 29, 2011
Location
London Ont Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2004 Jetta TDI, 2009 Jetta TDI, 2010 Touareg TDI
Ouch.

How hard is it to take out the gearbox in the passat? Does it seem easier then the MK4 jetta?
 

Uberhare

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Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
Depends which gearbox! I can yank this 6 speed in about an hour. (Don't ask me how I know)

The auto is a bit more work. You have to drop the subframe out of the way.
 

Ropre

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon
Jason

When pulling the auto tranny did you remove the subframe all the way, or just lower it? Meaning can you leave it attached to the lower control arms.
What clutch are you using now?

Thanks -Rory
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
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Nov 18, 2004
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MI
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2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Jason
When pulling the auto tranny did you remove the subframe all the way, or just lower it? Meaning can you leave it attached to the lower control arms.
What clutch are you using now?
Thanks -Rory
No need to mess with the subframe at all. Clutch is a DC clutch. Whitbread can give you more details on it.
 

Ropre

Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon
Really. Wow you can get to all the transmission bell housing bolts and remove the junkbox (auto) out without loosening the subframe at all? Cool
Yes I am currently in communication with Matt about buying a clutch through him.

Thanks again.
 

DeliveryValve

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Mar 27, 2007
Location
Western US
TDI
Passat GLS Wagon
Really. Wow you can get to all the transmission bell housing bolts and remove the junkbox (auto) out without loosening the subframe at all? Cool
Yes I am currently in communication with Matt about buying a clutch through him.
Thanks again.

That is definitely not correct. I just did this job. Took a lot of pics, perhaps I should post them.

Anycase you HAVE to drop the subframe, not all the way, but enough to tip the ZF auto trans down to get to the bellhousing bolts. This requires removing the bolts in all four corners of the subframe and disconnecting the lower strut/shock mount, along with holding up the engine.
Now I heard with a manual, it is not needed to drop the subframe.

.
 

vwztips

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Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
I have not managed to do that. my extensions do not bend like that. Not saying it can't be done.
 

Uberhare

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Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
To pull the auto - drop the subframe. Doesn't have to come right out but drop it down out of the way.

The 6 speed is small enough it can be removed without touching the subframe. My Sachs racing clutch is sitting on the workbench waiting....Oh I miss 27 PSI. :D
 

Uberhare

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Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
To further explain the clutch - I went with the stock DMF 240mm setup and a Sachs racing clutch. I actually spoke with a tech from LUK on the DMF vs SMF issue on these transmissions (and in general). If you measure the weight difference between a sprung clutch disc and unsprung, the difference is pretty significant. I went to the shelf later and verified...Yes pretty big difference. All of that extra rotational mass has to be slowed down by your syncro before it will engage the syncro hub. Your syncros will wear much quicker with all that extra force it has to "brake". Some domestics actually use a lining on the syncro gears similar to a brake material. Think if it like pulling a trailer all the time on your brakes. Extra load on every stop, they WILL wear much faster.

So I decided to stick to the factory DMF. We'll see how it holds up. :cool:
 

Ropre

Member
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Aug 25, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon
Ubershare-
What did you do to deal with the minimal pilot bearing engagement do to the 5.5mm spacer? What is your opinion of having the 6 speed box? Do you think you could have lived with just 5 gears and a slightly higher rpm on the interstate? If you can please try to answer this pretending the 5 speed box was just as stout as the 6 speed and could hold your 27 psi just fine? Thanks for humoring me.
 
Last edited:

jonlowe

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Aug 19, 2012
Location
Northern AL
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon, 5 speed conversion, GBSM
The 5 speed and 6 speed TDI boxes have the same final ratio, so the highway speed RPMs in top gear are the same. Intermediate gear ratios are different.

Jon

Ubershare-
What did you do to deal with the minimal pilot bearing engagement do to the 5.5mm spacer? What is your opinion of having the 6 speed box? Do you think you could have lived with just 5 gears and a slightly higher rpm on the interstate? If you can please try to answer this pretending the 5 speed box was just as stout as the 6 speed and could hold your 27 psi just fine? Thanks for humoring me.
 

vwztips

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Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
The 5 speed and 6 speed TDI boxes have the same final ratio, so the highway speed RPMs in top gear are the same. Intermediate gear ratios are different.

Jon
There is one exception that I know of which is the DQS gearbox. I do not know from first hand experience, but from what I have read here, it seems there are issues with the resonances in 6th gear due to the taller gearing.

There are plemty of threads and discussions here about the pros and cons of the 5 speed vs 6 speed. Personally, I am more than pleased with the 5 speed.
 

jonlowe

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Aug 19, 2012
Location
Northern AL
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2005 Passat GLS Wagon, 5 speed conversion, GBSM
There is one exception that I know of which is the DQS gearbox. I do not know from first hand experience, but from what I have read here, it seems there are issues with the resonances in 6th gear due to the taller gearing.

There are plemty of threads and discussions here about the pros and cons of the 5 speed vs 6 speed. Personally, I am more than pleased with the 5 speed.
Yeah, forgot about the DQS...
 

Ropre

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Aug 25, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon
Just a quick heads up, I was advised that the DQS box's from v6 TDI's are to be avoided because they have a shorter input shaft (1/2"). One would be better off using the 4 cyl. tdi 6-speed (such as FRK).
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
FWIW double check your ratios before buying any manual. Some 6 speeds run higher rpms than some 5 speeds, along with other issues to deal with, but if you are bound and determined to install a 6 speed, knock yourself out, LOL.
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
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Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Just a quick heads up, I was advised that the DQS box's from v6 TDI's are to be avoided because they have a shorter input shaft (1/2"). One would be better off using the 4 cyl. tdi 6-speed (such as FRK).
Advised by whom? There are a few of us running DQS boxes. The spacer is not needed with this box and you can use the stock starter too.
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
That is definitely not correct. I just did this job. Took a lot of pics, perhaps I should post them.

Anycase you HAVE to drop the subframe, not all the way, but enough to tip the ZF auto trans down to get to the bellhousing bolts. This requires removing the bolts in all four corners of the subframe and disconnecting the lower strut/shock mount, along with holding up the engine.
Now I heard with a manual, it is not needed to drop the subframe.

.
Yes, sorry, I have manuals on the brain :eek:
 

CharlieT

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Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
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Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
Advised by whom? There are a few of us running DQS boxes. The spacer is not needed with this box and you can use the stock starter too.
I have a DQS, several FRKs and a GVS. The FRKs and GVS have a longer input shaft, not sure why. The fact the DQS only ever went behind a V6 TDI crankshaft may have something to do with it. The FRK and GVS were always for 4cyl 1.9/2.0 PD TDIs, just like ours. I suspect VW knew a thing or two.
I gave up on my DQS, it is for sale.
I have 20k miles on the FRK now, works great, quiet. 150rpm higher than the DQS in 6th @ 75mph, but who cares.

The spacer and starter type are not affected by choice of 01E gearbox. They are only affected by choice of flywheel.
If you run a 240mm DMF, then you need a spacer, and you need a different starter. And then the extra shaft length on the FRK/GVS becomes pretty useful.

Yes, you can run a custom SMF flywheel and then potentially avoid the spacer, and the starter change. However many in Europe have tried SMF with 01E, and I have not found ANY success. They become noisy, and eat synchros. They need the lighter, non-sprung clutch disc, and so you then have to run a DMF.
 

gerwazy

Vendor
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Location
Sayreville, NJ
TDI
Passat B5.5
You guys are lucky with all the tranny options, I am still debating what to do as I was reading that I will have to grind down the crank by 4 mm and modify the pilot bearing to do my swap on the 1.8T as the auto crank is different then manual...
 

QuickTD

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Feb 25, 2002
Location
SW Ontario
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2003 Audi A4Q 5spd 2.0 TDI 2056VK R783, 2006 Audi A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI
You guys are lucky with all the tranny options, I am still debating what to do as I was reading that I will have to grind down the crank by 4 mm and modify the pilot bearing to do my swap on the 1.8T as the auto crank is different then manual...
Auto cranks are different on the diesel as well, but the normal manual pilot bearing fits the hole and if it is not driven in too deep it works fine.

You don't have to modify the crank on your 1.8T. You can get an oilite bronze bushing made to fit the pilot bearing hole in your existing crank. Auto cranks aren't quite as long but there is sufficient length (like the diesel) to support the input shaft. The auto crank has a hardened bushing that fits the converter pilot, it must be removed first. Take it and the transmission or at least the dimensions of your input shaft to your local machine shop and they can make you a bushing to mate the two.
 

gerwazy

Vendor
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Location
Sayreville, NJ
TDI
Passat B5.5
Auto cranks are different on the diesel as well, but the normal manual pilot bearing fits the hole and if it is not driven in too deep it works fine.

You don't have to modify the crank on your 1.8T. You can get an oilite bronze bushing made to fit the pilot bearing hole in your existing crank. Auto cranks aren't quite as long but there is sufficient length (like the diesel) to support the input shaft. The auto crank has a hardened bushing that fits the converter pilot, it must be removed first. Take it and the transmission or at least the dimensions of your input shaft to your local machine shop and they can make you a bushing to mate the two.
Thanks for the info I was under impression that the crank is too long to fit snugly with the manual tranny that is why you need to shave it... Where in Ontario are you, maybe I will bring all my stuff up north and you can help me with that swap...
 

QuickTD

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Feb 25, 2002
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2003 Audi A4Q 5spd 2.0 TDI 2056VK R783, 2006 Audi A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI
Thanks for the info I was under impression that the crank is too long to fit snugly with the manual tranny that is why you need to shave it... Where in Ontario are you, maybe I will bring all my stuff up north and you can help me with that swap...
The crank is actually too short on an auto 1.8t. The reason many grind the end down is to fit a large sealed ball bearing into the center of the flywheel to act as a pilot bearing. This method seems a bit crude.

I would just machine a bronze bushing to insert in the end of the crank and be done with it. It may also be possible to find a needle bearing that will fit the hole in the 1.8T crank and also fit the input shaft of the trans, I haven't really done much research.

I don't work on VW's professionally. It's more of a hobby for me. I'm not interested in working on your car.
 

gerwazy

Vendor
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Location
Sayreville, NJ
TDI
Passat B5.5
The crank is actually too short on an auto 1.8t. The reason many grind the end down is to fit a large sealed ball bearing into the center of the flywheel to act as a pilot bearing. This method seems a bit crude.

I would just machine a bronze bushing to insert in the end of the crank and be done with it. It may also be possible to find a needle bearing that will fit the hole in the 1.8T crank and also fit the input shaft of the trans, I haven't really done much research.

I don't work on VW's professionally. It's more of a hobby for me. I'm not interested in working on your car.
OK thanks for all the tips I didn't mean to offend you or anything with asking if you could help... But greatly appreciate the help, I would be scared to grind down the crank so this is the way to go:)
 

QuickTD

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Location
SW Ontario
TDI
2003 Audi A4Q 5spd 2.0 TDI 2056VK R783, 2006 Audi A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI
OK thanks for all the tips I didn't mean to offend you or anything with asking if you could help... But greatly appreciate the help, I would be scared to grind down the crank so this is the way to go:)
No offense taken. I had a 1.8t longitudinal auto engine laying around, it might be still here... I'll see if I can get a couple measurements on it. You may be able to just make a sleeve to fit the regular 1.8t pilot bearing. The hole in the auto crank is 24mm (once the converter pilot bushing is removed). The manual is 21mm. That leaves 1.5mm wall thickness for your sleeve. If the sleeve were made a bit longer than the bearing it could stick out from the crank and give the proper depth of engagement as well.
 

santacll

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Joined
Mar 6, 1999
Location
SK. Canada
TDI
15Jetta_HL, 11GSW_CL
need to produce table with details

I can see that there is a lot of info, and it is a bit scattered and disjointed, this thread dealing with 6spd conversion is a great start

can be pull together a recommended table?

and list the things needed fro a 6 spd swap? and list the issues unless someone has already done so.

I am pretty much half a continent away from all of you , and i would like to be proactive and start assembling the parts well in advance

my personal preference is a 5 sped swap so i will want to see feedback on that too, since i would only do a chip to +1.5 if at all

topics to cover are

transaxle model
flywheel, clutch, PP ,
starter
subframe and mounts
axles
pedals, cluch cyl, switch
ecm modes cruise, starter interlocks
shift linkage


any of you pioneers willing to share the info ?
 
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