BEW, Which Turbo (VNT17, Hybrid, or GT) and Clutch (Daily or Endurance, Dual Mass?)

[Mysticle31]

I'm finishing up my BEW Refresh. I didn't want to do a rebuild but found a couple stuck rings from previous drivers who loafed this engine around <2000rpm.
Updates/Modifications are a Frank06 Cam, Lite headwork...

I'm trying to decide what turbo to go with. Yeah it's been beat to death. I want to see if anything new is around. Plus I want to consider which clutch kit I need to buy (Daily or Endurance). Does anyone run dual mass flywheels or just 21lb?

Should I even consider a Hybrid or just stick with VNT17 and Stage 4? I'm willing to upgrade injectors for a nice bump after Stage 4 if needed. I'm after maximizing utilization of my clutch, best street manners, and the most power I can get for street drivability up to 4.5. If it can have some upper end pull, kind of like a gas car that would be great, and part of the reason I went with the BEW and higher injection pressure in the first place.

The south bend clutches are rated as follows for torque limit...
325 lb/ft - South Bend Stage 2 Daily
350 lb/ft - South Bend Stage 2 Endurance

What turbo do I want for my build?
VNT 17 (GT1749VB) - 200hp
VNT 17/22 - 210hp
VNT 17/26 - ?

Will any of the GT series turbos offer better street drivability or performance?
GT2052V - 220hp
GTB1756V - 220hp
GTB1749V - 200hp

 

[PakProtector]

You miss the GTD1752VRK...also keep in mind, Southbend has set up a nearly warranty-free requirement that a 'professional' installer needs to do the work. ACT VR1-HDSS is 340 ft-lbs, and technical questions are answered by these folks...

As far as tunes go, get a real one. Burpod comes to mind.

Don't forget to account for the install of a set of DLC1043's.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[Mysticle31]

You miss the GTD1752VRK

Where does it fit on the hierarchy of turbos?

Turbo naming conventions are so confusing when people convert VNTXXX to GTXXXX or add a couple letters after. I've read 17/26 is great, better than 17/22. Then a post from two years later says the opposite. I asked Peter at XMan and he agreed, and mentioned that the new 17/22's are better yet and just as good as 17/26.

Southbend has set up a nearly warranty-free requirement that a 'professional' installer needs to do the work.

I dont want to do work twice. Trying to keep within the requirements of the clutch. I'm pretty sure I want to stay with the lighter sprung clutches for ease of right leg drivability. Anyone driven an ACT VR1-HDSS is 340 ft-lbs vs the South Bends?

DLC1043

DLC as good as manufactures claim? I could have my BEW injectors rebuilt with DLC, order PD130 or PD150 from darkside, or use BHW injectors...

 

[Nevada_TDI]

PD injectors can be really expensive, they have a bit of flow left above stock.
I am running a 24 PSI, Stage 4 tune and the clutch never complains, the Daily Driver 2 has more than enough pressure to not have slipping problems
Granted, I don't beat it either.

 

[Mysticle31]

PD injectors can be really expensive, they have a bit of flow left above stock.
I am running a 24 PSI, Stage 4 tune and the clutch never complains, the Daily Driver 2 has more than enough pressure to not have slipping problems
Granted, I don't beat it either.

I heard the same so I think some people just beat their stuff... ha ha.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

South Bend Stage 2 Daily is going to be more than enough unless you upgrade injectors. And maybe even then. Drives nicer, too. And no, no one uses a DMF with a South Bend clutch. They don't make a kit for the 02J with a DMF. My first SBC was with a DMF, but they've been out of production for years. The single mass is better anyway. Lighter pedal.

 

[Mysticle31]

Nice! Thanks.

What do you guys think of the turbo chart? Some conflicting information so I tried to average were I can.
I assume GT = VNT17, GTB = Ball Bearing. I'm not sure where GTD comes in...

I think I'll keep around 200+ to save clutch and engine longevity. That pretty much means VNT17 or some Hybrid. Question becomes is there some newer better design that is better, like a small GTD? Did I miss anything?

GTB1756VK 250hp @ 2650rpm 34psi
GT2052V 220hp @ 2200rpm 27psi <-- VNT20??
GTB1756V 225hp
GTD1752VRK 220hp @ 2200rpm ????
VNT17/22 210hp @ 2200rpm 26psi
GTB1749V 205hp @ 1900rpm ????
GT1749VB 200hp @ 1900rpm 26psi

Malone Stage 4 is 24psi and Stage 5 is 26psi. I'm sure his tunes are fine, I almost want to find a different tuner, specially if I upgrade injectors. I'll start with Stage 4.

 

[PakProtector]

The 'B' is the series. 'D' is later/newer than 'B'. The last three or four suffix numbers indicate ball bearings. I think that is an 'R'. I am sure K isn't it, nor L, and V is common to both ball bearings and journals...and GTD1752VRK is for sure a ball bearing...

I would go bigger on exhaust side. GTD2056...it is 47/43mm vs 43/39 like 17 series

I think there is something wrong with your calculation nubmers...200 hp at 1900 rpm is one FORK ov a lot of torque. 553 ft-lbs...that is 6BT5.9 numbers...

Douglas

 

[Mysticle31]

I think there is something wrong with your calculation nubmers...200 hp at 1900 rpm is one FORK ov a lot of torque. 553 ft-lbs...that is 6BT5.9 numbers...

Oh yeah yeah! That's peak boost not peak hp. That would be odd...

The 'B' is the series. 'D' is later/newer than 'B'. The last three or four suffix numbers indicate ball bearings. I think that is an 'R'. I am sure K isn't it, nor L, and V is common to both ball bearings and journals...and GTD1752VRK is for sure a ball bearing...

I was told this...
1. VNT17 can be equipped with 1st or 2nd type of VNT.
2. GTB is equipped with the 3rd type of VNT.
3. GTD is equipped with the 4rd type of VNT - most efficient.

GTD2056 isn't even on my list...oi...

 

[PakProtector]

Lots will work... And as far as 'what am I putting in?' goes, my meager, real world budget is covering a VNT17. Would love a larger exhaust turbine of the near-latest development( a GTD ), and the smallish compressor side of the Ford variant( the 38/56 inducer/exducer). Hopefully some pile ov cash will come along and allow me to get nuts...LOL

Douglas

 

[Destro]

As far as clutch goes, I have run a stage 2 and 3 endurance from SBC on a 21lb flywheel, the heavier flywheel noticeably slows down engine acceleration and deceleration. My car originally had a SMF conversion when I purchased it and in comparison to a dmf car it was similar. I'd recommend running one of their lighter flywheels so the feel is closer to original, the 21lb one puts more of the weight further out. stage 2 endurance has an almost stock pedal feel.

 

[3L3M3NT]

This thread should help you with turbo sizing. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/turbo-technical-database.300010/

The GTD series turbo is actually the 5th generation VNT turbo from Garrett.
https://en.powertdi.pl/turbina-gtd1752vrk-do-19-20-tdi-na-moce-220-km,18591
http://shop.profiturbo.com.pl/product/gtd1752vrk-tuning-1-9-tdi-ball-bearing/
https://muchboost.com/product/bille...nverted-with-welded-1-6-1-9-2-0-tdi-manifold/

Helpful thread about the GTD1752VRK. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/gtd1752vrk.497265/

If you do wanna upgrade injectors, I'd recommend going with a tested used set of PD150s.
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...di-pd150-arl-injector-set-038-130-073-al.html

As for the clutch, it's better to go with a little bit more holding power than you need right now so you don't have to upgrade when/if you install an even bigger turbo.
Good luck.

 

[Andyinchville1]

HI,

I'd go with a stage 3 clutch in case you want to go with even more power in the future .

As far as the harder clutch pedal , It's really not that bad .... matter of fact I often thought the stock clutch feel was too soft to the point I felt the lightness was the result of something broken (although I knew it wasn't).

Andrew

 

[Judson]

In my ALH I went with the gtd1752vrk and a custom version of malone stage 5 limited to 28psi. I have stock-like turbo response around town and more than enough passing power in 6th gear on the highway.

 

[burpod]

In my ALH I went with the gtd1752vrk and a custom version of malone stage 5 limited to 28psi. I have stock-like turbo response around town and more than enough passing power in 6th gear on the highway.

you should read in your tunes... and there's a simply compare binary function in edcsuite - anyone can do this. i have yet to see a malone "custom stage4/5". they're all the same tune as the rest. only how much higher the boost map is fudged up (or sometimes a wrong map sensor linearization put in to trick ecu to make more boost, but then vcds log mbar values aren't correct). same timing maps, same pump map, same everything else except how much boost map is fudged up last couple columns.

 

[Judson]

That may be true, but she runs perfectly and returns 47 on the highway at 80mph, limits boost right, pulls better from idle than any tune I’ve had, and even at WOT blows very little smoke.
You probably can do a lot better and you probably are a better tuner, but trashing a vendor who’s provided a wanted service to thousands here, especially when our community is small and we are lucky to have what we have, is being ungrateful and ascribing blown turbos and other issues without knowing all of the facts and being onsite to troubleshoot is being unscientific.