BEW power loss on hills, emergency bandaid fixes?

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Also checked fuel flow at line from tank with key on - nothing. Does this mean lift pump is dead? If so, probably has been for years, and may explain a lot. Reading lots of threads on these pumps, and am not keen on replacing with newer white pumps which stop fuel flow when they die. Has anyone tried an external electric lift pump with dead oem pump?
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Back to the AC issue, which I will have to deal with at home now. If it turns out to be the compressor clutch coil, can this be replaced without losing refrigerant?
Yes. Two bolts to remove the compressor, drop it down a few inches and support it. One nut to remove the clutch, one circlip for pulley and another for the coil.
And will a generic R134A recharge kit work if I need it?
System is supposed to be charged by weight and R134a isn't available for DIY in Canada. Better to pay a shop to evacuate the system and charge the correct weight.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Yes. Two bolts to remove the compressor, drop it down a few inches and support it. One nut to remove the clutch, one circlip for pulley and another for the coil.

System is supposed to be charged by weight and R134a isn't available for DIY in Canada. Better to pay a shop to evacuate the system and charge the correct weight.
Thanks! Once we get home I will check the coil resistance and hopefully that is all that is needed. So far it's looking like I will need a new large fan and lift pump.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Thanks! Once we get home I will check the coil resistance and hopefully that is all that is needed. So far it's looking like I will need a new large fan and lift pump.
I was thinking ALH which has the AC compressor at the bottom. Not sure how easy it is to change the coil on a BEW where the compressor is above the PS pump - probably need to put the front in service position.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
I was thinking ALH which has the AC compressor at the bottom. Not sure how easy it is to change the coil on a BEW where the compressor is above the PS pump - probably need to put the front in service position.
I changed the clutch on my daughter's gasser 2.0 05 Golf, which I believe is in the same spot. I did not use service position, though in hind sight I think it would make it a little easier. I used a scrap piece of 5/4” decking, angled up toward the pass side, to support the loose compressor while I worked from above. To get the center nut off, I let it hang down and used the impact from below. So it’s doable, but a lot of hunching over. It was a bit easier just laying on the ground under my ALH to swap it out.
 

DuraBioPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Location
Eastern Washington
TDI
2004 BEW Jetta (5spd)
I skimmed through all that quickly. Have you pulled codes for the limp mode yet? My guess is EGR valve failure. Just went though this on my daughters BEW. It will not reset after a key cycle. A overboost or underboost will limp mode will reset after a key cycle.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
The fans have a habit of failing two ways -- the dropping resistor (for low) burns up and then low doesn't work at all (but high does) or the heat (low is just a dropping resistor in the case, right near the brushholder!) burns the brush holder up, it melts and then the fan doesn't work at all. The Chineesium replacement fans sometimes fail to properly mount that dropping resistor to the metal case of the fan housing and if so it will burn up and fail inside of an hour as that is the heat sink for the resistor. If it works for that long it will probably run for about as long as the original ones did.

Its a crap design in that a PWM control and sealed motor would have been better, but the resistor and cheap commutated DC motor works "well enough" so that's what they did. If checking on the pins of the connector shows open or nearly just replace the fan(s) involved.

Note that there are two fuses on the top panel (over the battery); if you ever get a SHORTED low speed resistor (or two) -- can happen, but doesn't often -- that will reliably blow the low-speed fuse because it is sized for the lower draw with the dropping resistors in-line.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
I skimmed through all that quickly. Have you pulled codes for the limp mode yet? My guess is EGR valve failure. Just went though this on my daughters BEW. It will not reset after a key cycle. A overboost or underboost will limp mode will reset after a key cycle.
It recovers without power cycling; just backing off a bit is enough. Lift pump is almost certainly dead, as there is no flow when key is on, so that is next step. EGR did produce a code, but I was unplugging it to check. Code hasn't come back. It does make noises when key is turned on. I will remove it and watch for movement when I get home.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
The fans have a habit of failing two ways -- the dropping resistor (for low) burns up and then low doesn't work at all (but high does) or the heat (low is just a dropping resistor in the case, right near the brushholder!) burns the brush holder up, it melts and then the fan doesn't work at all. The Chineesium replacement fans sometimes fail to properly mount that dropping resistor to the metal case of the fan housing and if so it will burn up and fail inside of an hour as that is the heat sink for the resistor. If it works for that long it will probably run for about as long as the original ones did.

Its a crap design in that a PWM control and sealed motor would have been better, but the resistor and cheap commutated DC motor works "well enough" so that's what they did. If checking on the pins of the connector shows open or nearly just replace the fan(s) involved.

Note that there are two fuses on the top panel (over the battery); if you ever get a SHORTED low speed resistor (or two) -- can happen, but doesn't often -- that will reliably blow the low-speed fuse because it is sized for the lower draw with the dropping resistors in-line.
Thanks for the info. I have a Febi fan on order.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Huge thanks to all who offered help so far!
Update: We drove the 600km home without any major issues, left at 5am to avoid the heat, and took it easy on the hills. The temperature gauge seemed to work a bit more often than before, and a few times when I noticed a loss of power coming on, it was right at 90C. The gauge typically dies when it reaches around 90C, which could be right when the low speed fan comes on. I have a new switch somewhere, was waiting to install it and now can't find it. They're cheap, I'll get another one.

By keeping speed to 110km/h, I avoided any drama like on the way up - tank was full, and I dumped a bunch of injector cleaner in for good measure. Even small hills on cruise would sometimes cause gradual loss of speed, but adding some pedal would recover; I'm guessing there is a limit of throttle % that cruise will apply, as this has been happening for some time.

The lift pump is dead. Open circuit at the pump connector, and 12V is present across the supply plug when engine is running (and it runs no differently with pump unplugged). 12V for about 1s when key turned on. Now to figure out how to remove the fuel connectors without breaking them, I will search for this procedure.

Does anyone know the specs (pressure/flow rate) for the lift pump? I have one of these generic fuel pumps as a backup lift pump/fuel polisher for my boat. I wonder if it could service as an emergency pump if the new style lift pump dies? Can fuel circulate through the system when the engine is not running if a pump like this were installed at the filter inlet (for testing/backup)?

I may still have other issues like vacuum leaks and a worn cam, but I will replace known bad parts first, ie: the large cooling fan, coolant sender, and lift pump, and inspect the vac lines and cam when I have time. I have an engine rebuild to get back to (not a VW, a Perkins).

Thanks again.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Glad you got home safe! Sounds like you have a reasonable plan ahead, looks good to me.

Only thing I would change is this, just replace them with the same amount of time you would take to inspect them. Cheap, easy, carefree, forget the inspection.
Makes sense. Any suggestions on a source for vac hose in Canada? EDIT, looks like 3mm and 5mm hose is what I need. Will check local FLAPS.

I'm trying to put together an order to avoid shipping costs. For the fuel pump, I have found lots of dubious looking Amazon aftermarket units, some with a photo of the beige style pump lid and a big red circle with line through it, whatever that means. The best option for a decent brand pump is a Hella 358106211 ($85CAD), but it's out of the US, so I need to make sure it will fit. Any suggestions for a decently priced pump available in Canada that is known to work? Or a replacement pump only for the OEM beige module that I have?
 
Last edited:

The Cream Dolphin

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Location
Fernie, B.C. originally Dwight, ON
TDI
02 VW Golf TDI ALH 245k
yup, 3mm and 5mm. 3m of 3mm (¹/₈) and 1m of 5mm (³/₁₆) silicon vac lines. Auto parts stores, amaƶon, definitely easy to find locally to avoid shipping. And to order if you are making a big order, I am pretty sure roselandtech.ca or germanparts.ca would have it too. Not sure on lift pumps though, sorry. Have you checked those two Canadian suppliers?
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
I've gone down the "just replace the internal pump", several times, and won't do it the next time as there is evidently no such thing as an OEM internal pump and they have left me stranded at least once. Kinda like no OEM Garrett turbo cartridges, for similar reasons I suspect.

The OEM full-meal-deal is spendy, no doubt, but arguably lasts for decades.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
I've gone down the "just replace the internal pump", several times, and won't do it the next time as there is evidently no such thing as an OEM internal pump and they have left me stranded at least once. Kinda like no OEM Garrett turbo cartridges, for similar reasons I suspect.

The OEM full-meal-deal is spendy, no doubt, but arguably lasts for decades.
But which one is the OEM now, since the original failsafe tan coloured one is no longer made? I have seen VDO and Hella which are known OEMs for VW. It would be interesting to know the reason for the change in pump design. I suspect that I've been driving with a mostly failed pump for years.

I really don't like having a pump that could leave me stranded, as we often travel in remote areas with no cell service.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
VDO, Hella, and Pierburg are the three OEMs for the fuel pump/sender as far as I know.

FWIW, I notice Amazon.ca "claims" to sell an OEM Pierburg internal pump for the sender assembly.

Like you I too lamented having to replace the bypassable unit for the "upgrade", but in some ways it's perhaps better to know the in-tank pump has failed... the tandem pump (which wears out prematurely if not fed by the lift pump) is much more spendy and an in-tank pump no-start is pretty obvious. Pretty sure my first BEW had not had a working lift pump for a long long time before I bought the car, and quite a few years afterwards.
 
Last edited:

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Minor update: Just received the Hella pump from RockAuto - made in China, but quality looks ok. Price was right at $60US. Will also be replacing the coolant sensor and some new coolant, as it's overdue. I have just enough real VW G10 coolant I think.
Car has been fine for local driving, but am hopeful the new fuel pump will address the slow starting issue.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7ZZn8eCcpiYbt4gZ8
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
bet its the turbo, having same issues.
Hope it's not the turbo. I did get some vac hose, but haven't had time to replace any yet.

No change to cranking issues with new pump today, so that's probably low compression. It will take a long hill to confirm if any improvement, so won't know that for a few weeks. Below is a pic of the old pump. Tank didn't look that bad, certainly better than my boat after 45 years.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rD6gw9RCgH5vPU3o7
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Where on Vancouver Island are you? Drive up the Malahat if Victoria area...? Or if North Island, do the first few km up to Mt. Washington in a hurry - that'll test fuel flow rate for sure.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Where on Vancouver Island are you? Drive up the Malahat if Victoria area...? Or if North Island, do the first few km up to Mt. Washington in a hurry - that'll test fuel flow rate for sure.
Yes, I have a trip to Victoria in a few weeks, and will try it then. With summer traffic, it may be hard to push it hard enough though. I did notice that on the last trip over the 'hat that the problem of cruise not holding speed was a bit worse - it will fall off by 10km/h or so on a long gentle rise, and then pick up again on the flat. But it will also pick up if I just give it more pedal, so I assume it's the computer limiting the % of pedal it will apply using cruise control.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Makes sense. Any suggestions on a source for vac hose in Canada? EDIT, looks like 3mm and 5mm hose is what I need. Will check local FLAPS.

I'm trying to put together an order to avoid shipping costs. For the fuel pump, I have found lots of dubious looking Amazon aftermarket units, some with a photo of the beige style pump lid and a big red circle with line through it, whatever that means. The best option for a decent brand pump is a Hella 358106211 ($85CAD), but it's out of the US, so I need to make sure it will fit. Any suggestions for a decently priced pump available in Canada that is known to work? Or a replacement pump only for the OEM beige module that I have?
I never bought auto parts on line other then from idparts.com.
They have the correct parts for our cars. :)
Sometimes the cheapest price isn't the best value. (just my opinion)
Would you want a China Replacement Auto Part fuel pump fail while driving and need a tow truck to get towed home?
There goes the savings. :(
Balls in your court.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
I never bought auto parts on line other then from idparts.com.
They have the correct parts for our cars. :)
Sometimes the cheapest price isn't the best value. (just my opinion)
There are Canadian suppliers of the correct parts for our cars, we don't need to incur the added cost of importing them from the USA.
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
There are Canadian suppliers of the correct parts for our cars, we don't need to incur the added cost of importing them from the USA.
German OEM has lots I have never ordered from them but I’m sure I will one day. And concept 1 here in Calgary is also great
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Roselandtech.ca out of Nova Scotia has been my go-to for Canadian parts. Brian (the main guy there) has always been really helpful; quick, flat-rate shipping; easy to navigate ordering and parts finding.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Hello all,
I'm back with the power loss on long hills issue. Quick summary: replaced a dead large cooling fan, dead lift pump, fan control module checked out fine. AC still broken, but not concerned with that for now. We just drove from Victoria to Palm Springs and back in 5 days (long story), and the power loss issue didn't occur until climbing the Grapevine on I5. Made it over the Siskiyous with no issues on the way down, but was going slower due to some ice. No trouble maintaining 130km/h on flat, with power for passing. Power loss is like lack of boost but will recover with power cycle while coasting down hill. Doesn't seem to recover otherwise even after long periods of downhill coasting. No CELs, but I need to find a working laptop to do a VAGCOM check.
I didn't dig into vac hoses before but will attempt to do so now, as I also plan to replace the coolant temp gauge sender which has been flaky for years. Oddly, it is now more consistently working but reading low temps except when climbing. (60C on flat, 80C on hills, never higher). Now I wonder if it is accurate and my thermostat is stuck open. Probably unrelated to the power loss issue.

Totally different question - does anyone make aftermarket fenders that are affordable? front right is rusted, and front left is now flattened by the F150 that sideswiped me on the I-10... Aside from the power loss issue, the car was flawless in 5000kms over 5 days.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
We just drove from Victoria to Palm Springs and back in 5 days (long story)
Having done that drive a number of times when my bro-in-law lived in San Diego...them's some long days in the car if you're going there AND BACK in five days.

As for the power issue: Remind me again - what have you done to check out the functioning of the turbo....? Are you sure the vanes aren't sticking? Getting the "zoom" back by cycling the ignition is a typical sign of sticking vanes --> overboost --> limp mode.
 

tdwesty

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI 5sp, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon Auto
Having done that drive a number of times when my bro-in-law lived in San Diego...them's some long days in the car if you're going there AND BACK in five days.

As for the power issue: Remind me again - what have you done to check out the functioning of the turbo....? Are you sure the vanes aren't sticking? Getting the "zoom" back by cycling the ignition is a typical sign of sticking vanes --> overboost --> limp mode.
It was a lot of driving, actually 6 days. Unexpected medical issue cut the trip short, and the accident on I-10 was just icing on the cake.
I haven't checked the turbo, is there an article on how to check for sticking vanes? Another symptom is that cruise control won't hold speed at 120 on a gentle climb, but a bit of extra pedal will bring the speed back up. If it's a steeper hill, of course extra pedal will eventually cause the major power loss and require cycling the key.
 
Top