BEW engine misfire under load

gvan

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Location
Yukon Territory
TDI
05 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
Today on a 90 mile highway trip our 05 Jetta Wagon started to shudder under load. Downshift to higher RPMs smooths it out. It was mild at first but by the end of the drive the car is almost undrivable. Idle seems a little rough also. Just did an oil change, replaced the air filter, and fuel filter changed a couple of weeks ago because we were getting some intermittent hesitation on acceleration over the past month.

VCDS below from this evening. The MAS airflow sensor issue has been chronic for over a year since just before our turbo went out.

What to look at and in what order? Injector connection, harness, injector?

Anything here to suggest camshaft or lifter damage? Owned this car since new and have always used the correct oil at regular service intervals.

Thanks in advance, anyone willing to offer insight here.

vanman

Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: WVWSR61J25W047009 Mileage: 392130km-243658miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 181 2
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0759191
Coding: 0150031
Shop #: WSC 23411 444 58605
VCID: 2D5FDE74B73D7DEE88-513C

3 Faults Found:
16485 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 000 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2016 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 92.0 km/h
Temperature: 30.6°C
(no units): 135.6
(no units): 0.80
Temperature: 90.0°C

18074 - PD Unit Injector; Cylinder 1 (N240)
P1666 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2184 /min
Torque: 226.0 Nm
Speed: 99.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.29 V
Inj. Quantity: -0.14 mg/str
Temperature: 44.1°C
(no units): 16.0

16685 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 000 - Misfire Detected
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 819 /min
Torque: 58.0 Nm
Speed: 35.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 13.98 V
Inj. Quantity: 2.96 mg/str
Temperature: 78.3°C
(no units): 128.0
 

Tom Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Location
Regina, SK, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta Wagon TDI
Perhaps injector. Might also clean your MAF with MAF cleaner or brake cleaner. Many warn against brake cleaner. Many, but not me.

Quick story.

I drive Regina to Calgary, a couple of times per year. When I first got my 06 TDI Wagon (almost the same car as yours), I dumped in a bunch of Lucas fuel injection cleaner and set out. When I got there, the car was noticeably smoother. Not rough before but like velvet at the destination. So, I kept doing it each trip.

The last time we went, it was an emergency trip and no Lucas fuel injection cleaner. When I got there, the car ran like velvet. lol!

This isn't a caution against using Lucas FI cleaner. I'm going to keep using it, every couple of years. Perhaps it's more to point out how good long highway trips are for a TDI.
 

Tom Brown

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Location
Regina, SK, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2006 Jetta Wagon TDI
It might be interesting to swap injectors between #1 and another cylinder, clear the codes, and see how they come back.
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
You have an electric problem with the injector, using fuel cleaner isn't going to fix it.

Check the injector wiring harness for under the valve cover, at that mileage its probably cracked all over. Usual culprit for electric injector faults. About $160 in Canada online for genuine replacement.
If it's fine your injector is probably done. 392k is a good run.

And put a new MAF on it if you decide to fix the car. That's only making the problem worse especially that you've known about it for a year.
 

gvan

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Location
Yukon Territory
TDI
05 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
Thanks for the input gentlemen! I forgot to mention a few things.
1. no smoke in the exhaust, so the cylinder is not getting fuel I guess.
2. I did try fuel cleaner and it made no difference to the hesitation on acceleration. Then this profound shudder on acceleration developed.
3. I did clean the MAF sensor. Then replaced with a new OEM one, then cleaned the new one. It is still throwing the code but the car seems to run fine. Maybe a bit low on power at the low end before the turbo kicks in.

So -- inspecting the injector wiring sounds like a next step. Wondering how to assess the harness for connectivity? Is there a way to electrically assess the injector itself?
 

gvan

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Location
Yukon Territory
TDI
05 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
So I drove the car yesterday. All the symptoms went away until the car was up to normal running temperature, then the hesistation and shuddering on hills started again. Oddly enough, after about 10 km of shuddering, the car drove normally again the last few kms. Its acting more like an intermittent electrical issue than a mechanical one.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I have a BEW doing the same thing. And as Danny pointed out, it is an electrical issue with that injector, not a mechanical problem (so cleaning, etc. is not going to do anything). It could be the harness, as suggested, or it could be the injector itself. Mine will start and run fine cold, as soon as some heat gets in there it drops that cylinder. It may come and go but usually once it drops it stays dead until the engine cools back down.
 

Shenandoah

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Shenandoah Valley, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon; 2005 Beetle; 2004 Jetta; 2002 Golf (three of them); 2002 Jetta Wagon; 2000 Audi TT->TDI; 1999 Beetle
Folks,

Having the same problem with my 2005 Beetle, 276k miles, 6 speed manual. I replaced the injector harness and thought the problem was solved, but the engine started missing a couple days later. It only starts to miss once it's warmed up. It also seems to go away briefly if I turn the car off and restart it. I do have a set of PD150 injectors I can swap out, if I can narrow it down to a failed injector(s).

Eric
 

gvan

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Location
Yukon Territory
TDI
05 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
l still have not solved this problem, but I have a bit more experience with it. The car runs fine until it warms up. Even then it may run fine, but other times it starts to drop the #1 cylinder, and once it starts, it gets worse the longer it is driven. What I have found is that if I shut the engine down and then restart, the problem goes away and doesn't come back that day. Is there a power supply for the PD injectors? Anyone heard of this failing on higher mileage cars?
oilhammer or Shenandoah, have you been able to solve this problem on your PDs?
 

Shenandoah

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Shenandoah Valley, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon; 2005 Beetle; 2004 Jetta; 2002 Golf (three of them); 2002 Jetta Wagon; 2000 Audi TT->TDI; 1999 Beetle
gvan,

My 2005 Beetle actually has gotten worse. Fortunately I have several other VWs to drive while I figure out what the problem is with my Beetle.

Once it warms up, it will start to miss, then quit. I mean flat out quit running. If I turn the key off and restart the car it will run fine for 10 seconds then quit again. I'm at 276k, so maybe I've got a bad injector? I need to scan it with VCDS to see what other codes it's throwing.

Eric
 

Shenandoah

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Shenandoah Valley, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta Wagon; 2005 Beetle; 2004 Jetta; 2002 Golf (three of them); 2002 Jetta Wagon; 2000 Audi TT->TDI; 1999 Beetle
gvan,

Just did a VCDS scan:

8 Faults Found:

17668 - PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 1 (N240)
P1260 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1596 /min
Torque: 20.0 Nm
Speed: 60.0 km/h
Load: 9.4 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Inj. Quantity: -0.05 mg/str
Temperature: 63.9°C
(no units): 0.0

17677 - PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 4 (N243)
P1269 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1596 /min
Torque: 26.0 Nm
Speed: 60.0 km/h
Load: 9.8 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Inj. Quantity: 1.01 mg/str
Temperature: 63.9°C
(no units): 0.0

17674 - PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 3 (N242)
P1266 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1764 /min
Torque: 114.0 Nm
Speed: 65.0 km/h
Load: 37.6 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Inj. Quantity: 0.09 mg/str
Temperature: 63.9°C
(no units): 0.0

17671 - PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 2 (N241)
P1263 - 000 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2142 /min
Torque: 246.0 Nm
Speed: 79.0 km/h
Load: 67.1 %
Voltage: 14.14 V
Inj. Quantity: -0.19 mg/str
Temperature: 67.5°C
(no units): 0.0

16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0321 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 189 /min
Torque: 118.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 20.0 %
Voltage: 10.72 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
RPM: 0 /min

18075 - PD Unit Injector; Cylinder 2 (N241)
P1667 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2058 /min
Torque: 170.0 Nm
Speed: 77.0 km/h
Load: 51.0 %
Voltage: 14.29 V
Inj. Quantity: -0.54 mg/str
Temperature: 38.7°C
(no units): 0.0

16683 - Boost Pressure Regulation
P0299 - 000 - Control Range Not Reached - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2142 /min
Torque: 196.0 Nm
Speed: 79.0 km/h
Load: 57.6 %
Voltage: 14.29 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Absolute Pres.: 2080.8 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 1499.4 mbar

18072 - Control Circuit for PD Injectors
P1664 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1827 /min
Torque: 204.0 Nm
Speed: 69.0 km/h
Load: 57.3 %
Voltage: 14.14 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Temperature: 63.9°C
Bin. Bits: 11010000


Readiness: 1 6 0 0 1

I'll have to do some more research to see if I can figure out what the problem is. Based on the scan above, something might be going on with injector #2.

Eric
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
l still have not solved this problem, but I have a bit more experience with it. The car runs fine until it warms up. Even then it may run fine, but other times it starts to drop the #1 cylinder, and once it starts, it gets worse the longer it is driven. What I have found is that if I shut the engine down and then restart, the problem goes away and doesn't come back that day. Is there a power supply for the PD injectors? Anyone heard of this failing on higher mileage cars?
oilhammer or Shenandoah, have you been able to solve this problem on your PDs?
The chances of the MOSFETs for the injector drivers working intermittently is not something i've ever heard of. They are very robust pieces of electronics, they are built solid, literally. Overvoltage kills them quickly though.They work or they don't. ive seen solder joints breaking and touching intermittently but it would be a very rare occurrence. Not impossible but very unlikely. venders and Gurus will clue you in on how many ecus actually go bad,its not many. i personally have experienced one a dead one, the owner before i bought it was completely to blame.

it still sounds like a wiring or injector solenoid problem, heat increases the resistance causing a drop in current and leading to injector not opening correctly. Also reason you have injector electrical code.

From VW

To detect pump/injector solenoid valve
faults, the Diesel Direct Fuel Injection
Engine Control Module J248 evaluates the
BIP position from the current flow pattern.
If there are no faults, BIP will be within the
control limit. If this is not the case, the
valve is faulty.

Effects of failure
If a fault is detected at the solenoid valve,
start of injection is determined based on
fixed values from the control map.
Regulation is no longer possible and
performance is impaired.
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014

gvan

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Location
Yukon Territory
TDI
05 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
So, In plain language, are you saying to replace the injector wiring harness first, and then if that does not resolve the problem, to replace the malfunctioning injector, 2nd?
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2014 Tiguan,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I know there's more labor involved but swapping two injectors to see if the problem follows to the next cylinder would only cost the sealing washers or such.

Do you have a meter to check the resistance if each injector (mentioned above) when the motor is hot?
It looks like there is a plug where the wires come out of the head.
If the resistance isn't the same (or close) that would be a pointer.
 
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